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Colnago Master Piu Decor - need help

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Colnago Master Piu Decor - need help

Old 02-07-19, 01:08 PM
  #1  
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Colnago Master Piu Decor - need help

Hello,
I recently bought this Colnago Master Piu Decor 199?. The frame looks superbe and there is only small superficial rust on the front lug, with barely no scratch. I have a hard time to put a date on it. The groups can't help since it is a 1999 Shimano 105 (complete with hubs, headset and BB). I believe the Master Peu was not produced anymore at that time. I never saw this Colnago markings on the seat stays (are often the club) for a 1990s Master Piu Decor on the internet. Also, the fork is intriguing. The first time I saw this one is on a 1995 Techno (on the internet). All forks on the Master Peu that I saw have the inverted triangle under the Colnago marking. Not sure when Colnago stopped producing the Master Piu.

I looked at the seat post and I pretty sure it is a 1991 Shimano 600 aero 27,2mm SP-6400-B (anodized marking disappeared but the Dura Ace was engraved so I believe it is a 600). Also, the stem looks to be a 3TTT Record 84 110x26mm, 1" (record because of the small second screw to help with handlebar installation). This stem was produced from mid 80s to mid 90s. So it is possible that the frame is an early 90s and if it is the case, maybe the fork is not the original one.

I also looked at the wheels but could not find any clue for dating. Since the hubs are from 1999, chances are that the rims are from that period too.

That is where I am. anything I may have missed (I m sure there is a lot since I am new to C&V).

Many thanks for you help!










Last edited by fraba; 02-07-19 at 01:28 PM. Reason: Error in the title
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Old 02-07-19, 04:10 PM
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Oh! And since I don't plan to keep the Shimano 105, any advice on restauration would be appreciated. I am still not decided between a restoration respecting the period or mounting the bike with a new groupset&ei and wheels.
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Old 02-07-19, 06:28 PM
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Go to the Retro Oldies thread. It shows hundreds of builds of older bikes with STI or Ergo drivetrains. Very motivational.

I think I would go modern Campy on this one. Such a nice bike, its worth It. It won't need much work to make It a real beauty.
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Old 02-07-19, 06:58 PM
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A lovely Master Piu frame. I would estimate the frame to be a mid to late 1980's build and the front fork to be an early 90's example. It's so hard to pin-point a Colnago frame's build date.

I once bought a similar frame from a larger bike shop here in Australia in the early 1990's and was given the choice of front fork to go with the frame. I was given the choice of a curved fork and a straight bladed fork. I chose a straight fork with the triangle under the club logo on the fork crown. If, at that time, your example was available, I would have chosen that front fork as the lugs really suit the frame's lugs better in my opinion.

Another reason as to why the front fork is a slightly different era than the frame is that the original fork was bent in an accident and replaced with the current fork.

Whatever the reason, you have a lovey bike and the front fork can be overlooked, in my humble opinion.

As for a groupset recommendation, I, being a Campagnolo tragic, would aim towards a Campagnolo C-Record gruppo and perhaps a 2nd or 3rd variation. Another gruppo recommendation would be the 1995 Campagnolo Record groupset - their first 'titanium' set. I'd measure the rear fork spacing or width and go from there. I think the rear spacing would direct you in the C-Record direction.

Of course a Shimano Durace groupset of a similar era would be at home on your frame but I know very little about Shimano.

Personally, I would try to identify the make and variation of the headset bearing and the bottom bracket and perhaps use that as my guide as to which groupset to concentrate on. I would only do this if they were top end components though as I would like my bike to have the best from that era.

Best of luck with your search and build, you do have a very nice riding frame as your base component.

Last edited by Gary Fountain; 02-07-19 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 02-07-19, 09:01 PM
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Looks a lot like my '92 Master PIU Decor.

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Old 02-07-19, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary Fountain View Post
A lovely Master Piu frame. I would estimate the frame to be a mid to late 1980's build and the front fork to be an early 90's example. It's so hard to pin-point a Colnago frame's build date.

I once bought a similar frame from a larger bike shop here in Australia in the early 1990's and was given the choice of front fork to go with the frame. I was given the choice of a curved fork and a straight bladed fork. I chose a straight fork with the triangle under the club logo on the fork crown. If, at that time, your example was available, I would have chosen that front fork as the lugs really suit the frame's lugs better in my opinion.

Another reason as to why the front fork is a slightly different era than the frame is that the original fork was bent in an accident and replaced with the current fork.

Whatever the reason, you have a lovey bike and the front fork can be overlooked, in my humble opinion.

As for a groupset recommendation, I, being a Campagnolo tragic, would aim towards a Campagnolo C-Record gruppo and perhaps a 2nd or 3rd variation. Another gruppo recommendation would be the 1995 Campagnolo Record groupset - their first 'titanium' set. I'd measure the rear fork spacing or width and go from there. I think the rear spacing would direct you in the C-Record direction.

Of course a Shimano Durace groupset of a similar era would be at home on your frame but I know very little about Shimano.

Personally, I would try to identify the make and variation of the headset bearing and the bottom bracket and perhaps use that as my guide as to which groupset to concentrate on. I would only do this if they were top end components though as I would like my bike to have the best from that era.

Best of luck with your search and build, you do have a very nice riding frame as your base component.
Thanks for your guidance. I tought the decor painting was something of the 90s. But the seat stays marhing and the facts that there is only lugs for one bottle cage seem to point toward late 80s.

Originally Posted by rjhammett View Post
Looks a lot like my '92 Master PIU Decor.

Obviously a very very nice paint job
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Old 02-07-19, 09:52 PM
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Pretty sweet.

There may be some ways to clean up the chrome.

A SEAT might help.

The Carbon Fiber Campagnolo might look good with the black color, although a little less contrast.

Or, go one generation back, Campagnolo Record 10-Speed, with a mix of aluminum and carbon fiber.
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Old 02-07-19, 10:04 PM
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I have the seat a Selle Italia Trimatic Blue. It’s in pretty good shape but not the best for this bike IMO.

For the groupset, a new Record or Chorus carbon would be great but I would love the contrast of a silver groupset. That would be modern with a more vintage look. For Campy it could be Potenza. I also like the idea of keeping it early 90s but I would sacrifice the performance. Decisions decisions...

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Old 02-07-19, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by fraba View Post
Hello,
I recently bought this Colnago Master Piu Decor 199?. The frame looks superbe and there is only small superficial rust on the front lug, with barely no scratch. I have a hard time to put a date on it. The groups can't help since it is a 1999 Shimano 105 (complete with hubs, headset and BB). I believe the Master Peu was not produced anymore at that time. I never saw this Colnago markings on the seat stays (are often the club) for a 1990s Master Piu Decor on the internet. Also, the fork is intriguing. The first time I saw this one is on a 1995 Techno (on the internet). All forks on the Master Peu that I saw have the inverted triangle under the Colnago marking. Not sure when Colnago stopped producing the Master Piu.
That is indeed odd to say the least. I'd have put it around 1990-92, but that seat stay is from pre 89 IIRC.

I think Master line went something like this...
Master - external top tube cable routing
Master Piu - internal cable routing / Europe only
*Precisa fork can be found on master and master piu, but many opted for curved fork... I think
Master Olympic - short lived due to trade mark issue..I think. I think they introduced 'art deco' paint scheme.
Master Light - pretty much the same as the Olympic
Master X-Light - something about dropout...or chainstay???
and so on...

I'm sure I am wrong on some details and missing something. I hope some one with better knowledge would step in.
Personally, I think it is really hard to pin point the year of Colnago and use the catalogs as a guide imho.
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Old 02-07-19, 11:07 PM
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You may be able to mix a bit for the flavor you want.

However, I think early Record 10s groupsets got aluminum cranks, and late ones carbon cranks. And, overall a mix of aluminum and carbon.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CAMPAGNOLO-...O/283220126979

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-...0/123010139915

Chorus 10s
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-...o/323684744177

I really like the Campagnolo 11s shifters. I haven't used the 9/10 much.

I've used 10s Ultratorque (carbon) cranks with 11s shifters with generally good luck, but I haven't done more 10/11 mixing. But, you may be able to use 11s shifters with 10s components to get "the look".
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Old 02-08-19, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by flyingPiggy View Post
That is indeed odd to say the least. I'd have put it around 1990-92, but that seat stay is from pre 89 IIRC.

I think Master line went something like this...
Master - external top tube cable routing
Master Piu - internal cable routing / Europe only
*Precisa fork can be found on master and master piu, but many opted for curved fork... I think
Master Olympic - short lived due to trade mark issue..I think. I think they introduced 'art deco' paint scheme.
Master Light - pretty much the same as the Olympic
Master X-Light - something about dropout...or chainstay???
and so on...

I'm sure I am wrong on some details and missing something. I hope some one with better knowledge would step in.
Personally, I think it is really hard to pin point the year of Colnago and use the catalogs as a guide imho.
That seems to make sense. I am pretty sure that the first decor paint scheme is in the 90s (anyone can confirm this?). When they changed the seat stay design (89?), maybe there was a mix during the following couple of years to get rid of the old production stocks (make sense?). That would place the frame in the very early 90s. Possibly with a fork replacement in the mid 90s.

Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
You may be able to mix a bit for the flavor you want.

However, I think early Record 10s groupsets got aluminum cranks, and late ones carbon cranks. And, overall a mix of aluminum and carbon.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CAMPAGNOLO-...O/283220126979

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-...0/123010139915

Chorus 10s
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-...o/323684744177

I really like the Campagnolo 11s shifters. I haven't used the 9/10 much.

I've used 10s Ultratorque (carbon) cranks with 11s shifters with generally good luck, but I haven't done more 10/11 mixing. But, you may be able to use 11s shifters with 10s components to get "the look".
Thanks for the links CliffordK. Good looking stuff there
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Old 02-08-19, 07:26 AM
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Since your frame is black and circa early 90s, I thought I would show you what I did with my early 90s black Pogliaghi. Its a mix of old and new.

New Campy 9 speed, but with a new, yet vintage looking, Velo Orange crankset, new Campy brakes, and new wheelset. Old is the 3ttt handlebars, ITM stem, Newbaum cotton tape, and Cinelli saddle and clip pedals.

The drivetrain, wheels, stem, handlebars, headset and seat post are all black, while the seat, tape, cables are all white to match decals and contrast against the black frame.
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Old 02-08-19, 07:45 AM
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The last year of the clover leaf on the top tube was 1996. After that they went to the “rider person”. Nice looking bike and should clean up well.
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Old 02-08-19, 07:48 AM
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Im guessing you could email Colnago with the number that looks like is stamped on the rear dropout drive side. One of your pics show the start of a number. Laura should be able to tell you year/size and color ID. They had no record of when/were mine was shipped, but it cleared up my year question...
i took my old group and swapped it I wasnt sure I would like the shorter wheelbase. Turns out I do and now Im trying to figure out how modern I want to go😉 (But I do still like my old Superbe stuff...) lol

Cheers,
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Old 02-08-19, 07:58 AM
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Wow Giacomo 1, a real beauty! Well you know, black on black is likely to become an option for my Master Piu...

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Old 02-08-19, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by 72fuji View Post
Im guessing you could email Colnago with the number that looks like is stamped on the rear dropout drive side. One of your pics show the start of a number. Laura should be able to tell you year/size and color ID. They had no record of when/were mine was shipped, but it cleared up my year question...
i took my old group and swapped it I wasnt sure I would like the shorter wheelbase. Turns out I do and now Im trying to figure out how modern I want to go😉 (But I do still like my old Superbe stuff...) lol

Cheers,
Tony
Thanks Tony. I already sent an e-mail to Colnago last Monday without an answer . Should I contact Laura directly (i used the "contact us" link)? Would you have her e-mail address?
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Old 02-08-19, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary Fountain View Post
A lovely Master Piu frame. I would estimate the frame to be a mid to late 1980's build and the front fork to be an early 90's example. It's so hard to pin-point a Colnago frame's build date.

I once bought a similar frame from a larger bike shop here in Australia in the early 1990's and was given the choice of front fork to go with the frame. I was given the choice of a curved fork and a straight bladed fork. I chose a straight fork with the triangle under the club logo on the fork crown. If, at that time, your example was available, I would have chosen that front fork as the lugs really suit the frame's lugs better in my opinion.

Another reason as to why the front fork is a slightly different era than the frame is that the original fork was bent in an accident and replaced with the current fork.

Whatever the reason, you have a lovey bike and the front fork can be overlooked, in my humble opinion.

As for a groupset recommendation, I, being a Campagnolo tragic, would aim towards a Campagnolo C-Record gruppo and perhaps a 2nd or 3rd variation. Another gruppo recommendation would be the 1995 Campagnolo Record groupset - their first 'titanium' set. I'd measure the rear fork spacing or width and go from there. I think the rear spacing would direct you in the C-Record direction.

Of course a Shimano Durace groupset of a similar era would be at home on your frame but I know very little about Shimano.

Personally, I would try to identify the make and variation of the headset bearing and the bottom bracket and perhaps use that as my guide as to which groupset to concentrate on. I would only do this if they were top end components though as I would like my bike to have the best from that era.

Best of luck with your search and build, you do have a very nice riding frame as your base component.
Campy TI would look fantastic with that Colnago cromed lugs and forks. This is a case where I would prefer metal over carbon. Should be some great riding, enjoy!
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Old 02-08-19, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by joesch View Post
Campy TI would look fantastic with that Colnago cromed lugs and forks. This is a case where I would prefer metal over carbon. Should be some great riding, enjoy!
Agreed. But can be hard to find locally (Montreal area). There is eBay but since I can't touch and see... I have no experience buying on eBay. I guess I need to be patient if I want to take the Campy 90s path.
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Old 02-08-19, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by fraba View Post
Thanks Tony. I already sent an e-mail to Colnago last Monday without an answer . Should I contact Laura directly (i used the "contact us" link)? Would you have her e-mail address?
I found this email through a search on this forum and just tried it myself. Not sure if it is correct. laura@colnago.com
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Old 02-08-19, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Midway View Post
I found this email through a search on this forum and just tried it myself. Not sure if it is correct. laura@colnago.com
Thanks Midway!!
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Old 02-08-19, 12:35 PM
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I just double checked my two catalogs '94 and '97 and neither have a Master Piu. '94 has Master Olympic and Super Piu. The description of the Super Piu says it's made of Tange Professional tubing but two different pics of one in the catalog have Columbus stickers. Maybe that's a statement on the reliability of the catalog.
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Old 02-08-19, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by fraba View Post

Thanks Midway!!

Thats the email I used, sorry I should have included it with the first reply.

Cheers
Tony
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Old 02-08-19, 04:21 PM
  #23  
fraba 
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Originally Posted by 72fuji View Post



Thats the email I used, sorry I should have included it with the first reply.

Cheers
Tony
No worries
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Old 02-08-19, 07:12 PM
  #24  
Gary Fountain
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I didn't pick-up on the one set of bidon mounts - none on the seat tube. The single bidon mount was fazed out by most every frame builder around 1986/7 where 2 sets of bidon mounts were now becoming common. It's my recollection that Colnago did take a little longer to add the extra bidon mount to their frames (or show-up in Australia).

Plus the fact that the seat stay caps used on your frame were being used in the mid 1980's only goes to reinforce my estimation as a mid to late 1980's frame. These caps were used prior to the 'Ace of Clubs/Flowers' seat stay caps more commonly seen on Master frames.

Like you, I don't recall the decor paint scheme in the 1980's but that's just my recollection. Perhaps it was around 1n the 1980's?

It may even be a re-paint. The front fork is probably a replacement. I have a very good friend that had his Master Olympic re-painted in the original paint scheme as his frame had become tatty. You could not pick it from the original factory paint job. It would be a relatively easy paint scheme to reproduce if you had access to a computer printer that could produce stencils - pretty common. (I'm assuming the 'Colnago' logo's are painted on and not decals.) That said, I still think it's an original paint job.

Last edited by Gary Fountain; 02-08-19 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 02-09-19, 07:09 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by fraba View Post
Agreed. But can be hard to find locally (Montreal area). There is eBay but since I can't touch and see... I have no experience buying on eBay. I guess I need to be patient if I want to take the Campy 90s path.
I have had good success with ebay. Buyer protection is well supported and if your purchase is not as described like undeclared damage then ebay will make it easy to get a full refund including return shipping. Also the seller feedback and ratings are good sources to check before making a purchase.
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