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Experiences with current High Flange Cassette hubs?

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Experiences with current High Flange Cassette hubs?

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Old 02-09-19, 12:22 PM
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Experiences with current High Flange Cassette hubs?

So I'm looking at building new wheels for the Batavus but I'm a bit stuck on the rear hub. (The front is going to be an SP dynohub)
While there do seem to be many options nowadays, there are not that many recent experiences to be found online.

Do any of you have experience with any of the current "retro" offerings?
I'm looking for Shimano 9-speed compatible, 36H, cassette hub with high flanges and max 130mm OLD since I'll already have enough of a stretch widening these from a 6-speed freewheel.

What I have found so far are these;
  1. Velo Orange Grand Cru 130mm Touring Hub
    • 353 grams/12.45oz, 32/36H, $165
    • 4 sealed bearings. Very easy to disassemble
    • They do however seem to be high maintenance in wet conditions. Which I will be riding in.
  2. Dia Compe Ene Touring "NEW" S-type
    • 444 grams/15.66oz, 32/36H, Campy/Shimano-compatible, decent price @ $160 if you can find it
    • 4 sealed bearing, Looks good
  3. SUNxcd Large Flange hub SXL136
    • 275 grams/9.7oz (w/o QR), 32/36, Campy/Shimano-compatible, decent price @ £120/$155/€140
    • Good looking hub, pressed together and requires a bit of work to make it user serviceable.
  4. Grand Bois LFQR
    • 360 grams/12.7oz, 32/36H, Campy/Shimano-compatible, decent price @ $164 but shipping from Japan adds another $30
    • Good looking hub, rated for camping
  5. Grand Bois SLFQR
    • Extra large rivetted flanges. Sexy hubs but pricey @ €1200+
  6. Chris King Classic Rear
    • 266 grams/9.38oz, 28/32/36H, only Shimano-compatible, $460
    • With "Legendary CK angry bee sound". Not entirely a high-flange hub
  7. Royce Venus Cassette Shimano
    • 16-32H, only Shimano-compatible, £300
    • Beautiful Aluminum/Titanium hub
  8. Phil Wood Touring hub
    • 503 grams/17.74oz, 36/40/48H, Campy/Shimano-compatible, $450
    • Stainless steel axles, good looking hub
  9. Bitex BX103R
    • 339 grams/11.96oz, 28/32/36/40H, only Shimano-compatible, £93.00
    • 6 (!) bearings, Touring hub, removable axle for 130/135 OLD, only available in black
  10. Electra Ticino hubs
  11. Suzue Classica Road Hub
    • 295 grams/10.41oz. 28/32/36H, only Shimano-compatible. ¥9660/$90/€80.
    • Looks more like track hubs. Price can be all over the place, $450 to $90 depending on where you look.
  12. White Industries MI5 High-low hubs
    • 265 grams, 28/32/36/40H, Campy/Shimano-compatible, $323/€310.
    • Not entirely sure if I would classify these as high-flange.
  13. Via Components Road rear hub
    • 269 grams, 24/32H, £143/$185/€165,
    • Their website only shows black but there is a silver version available. Partially ceramic bearings.
  14. American Classic RD 205 Rear Hub
    • 205 grams/7.23oz, 24/28/32H, Campy/Shimano-compatible, $264
    • Only available in black and a 135mm MTB 210 Rear Hub.
Did I miss any? Do any of you have any experience with these hubs?

EDIT: Shout out to the classic Show me your high flange hubs-thread!
EDIT2: In the non-C&V camp we also have Miche 2, Sturmey Archer. And of course the true C&V option: Shimano 600EX high-flange cassette hubs
EDIT3: Added the last few and made the list a bit more readable for future use.

Last edited by JaccoW; 02-12-19 at 07:16 PM.
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Old 02-09-19, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by JaccoW View Post
So I'm looking at building new wheels for the Batavus but I'm a bit stuck on the rear hub. (The front is going to be an SP dynohub)
While there do seem to be many options nowadays, there are not that many recent experiences to be found online.

Do any of you have experience with any of the current "retro" offerings?
I'm looking for Shimano 9-speed compatible, 36H, cassette hub with high flanges and max 130mm OLD since I'll already have enough of a stretch widening these from a 6-speed freewheel.

What I have found so far are these;
  1. Velo Orange Grand Cru 130mm Touring Hub
    • 4 sealed bearings. Very easy to disassemble, 353 grams $165
    • They do however seem to be high maintenance in wet conditions. Which I will be riding in.
  2. Dia Compe Ene Touring "NEW" S-type
    • 4 sealed bearing, 444 grams. Looks good, decent price @ $160 if you can find it
  3. SUNxcd Large Flange hub SXL136
    • Good looking hub, decent price @ £120/$155/€140. Pressed together and requires a bit of work to make it user serviceable, 275 grams (w/o QR)
  4. Grand Bois LFQR
    • Good looking hub, rated for camping, 360 grams. Decent price @ $164 but shipping and import duty brings it closer to $200 here.
  5. Grand Bois SLFQR
    • Extra large rivetted flanges. Sexy hubs but pricey @ €1200+
  6. Chris King Classic Rear
    • With "Legendary CK angry bee sound". Out of my budget @ $460
  7. Royce Venus Cassette Shimano
    • Aluminum/Titanium hub, 32H max, Out of budget @ £300. Beautiful hubs though.
  8. Phil Wood Touring hub
    • Stainless steel axles, good looking hub, 503 grams but 135mm OLD. Out of my price range @ $450
  9. Bitex BX103R
    • 6 (!) bearings, Touring hub, 339 grams, good price @ £93.00, only available in black
  10. Electra Ticino hubs
    • Beautiful hubs but impossible to find.
Did I miss any? Do any of you have any experience with these hubs?
Nice list so far!

Doesn’t Suzue make a high flange cassette hub?

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Old 02-09-19, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post


Nice list so far!

Doesn’t Suzue make a high flange cassette hub?
You are right, added!
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Old 02-09-19, 12:54 PM
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White Industries makes a few high-flange hubs and their standard rear road hub is a hi-low.
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Old 02-09-19, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by TenGrainBread View Post
White Industries makes a few high-flange hubs and their standard rear road hub is a hi-low.
Just added it.

White Industries MI5 High-low hubs
  • 265 grams, 9/10/11-speed $323/€310.
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Old 02-09-19, 02:56 PM
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I have a couple of Bitex hubs in use though not that particular model. I’ve been very pleased. Lightweight and fairly quiet.
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Old 02-09-19, 03:03 PM
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I agree on Ticino. I bought one of the last pair and sadly felt compelled to part with them for the money.

I do still have the Electra Ticino wheels and love them. The ride is great and they look fabulous. Only downside is they are not tubulars
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Old 02-09-19, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
I agree on Ticino. I bought one of the last pair and sadly felt compelled to part with them for the money.

I do still have the Electra Ticino wheels and love them. The ride is great and they look fabulous. Only downside is they are not tubulars
I hated seeing you selling those things... If I would have had the money, I would have gotten them, just to look at.
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Old 02-09-19, 03:28 PM
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I have the VO hubs and the White Industries T11 hubs. The T11 are the current road/touring model. MI5 are mountain, though they offer them in 130 by request.

I have been riding the T11 primarily for the last 3 years or so. I'm not sure how many miles but quite a few. The back wheel is on its second rim -- it's had some use. I really can't find fault with them. They've been in torrential downpours - no problem. I use Phil tenacious oil on the pawls, which pushes the boundaries of the recommended "light oil", but I've had no problems, and it makes them reasonably quiet. They are a little eccentric and fiddly to disassemble, but not difficult.

The VO hubs I have not built up yet. These were supposed to be for my heavy duty touring wheels, the ones I have yet to need. (Still waiting to have time for that 2 week tour... )The disassembly feature is pretty clever and functional, though probably not as necessary as it once was, since spokes are better and rarely break. Generally, the quality and finish doesn't look as nice as the T11 hubs. You get what you pay for. The cassette body is steel instead of titanium, IMO a better choice than aluminum. The front hub is a conventional type rather than an oversized axle type, and seems a bit cheaply made for the price. Not a concern for you. Obviously I can't speak to how they hold up in the rain. I suspect if they are oiled up with Tenacious oil to start with, and the pawls are kept lubricated at reasonably intervals, they should hold up OK.

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Old 02-09-19, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by JaccoW View Post
  1. Phil Wood Touring hub
    • Stainless steel axles, good looking hub, 503 grams but 135mm OLD. Out of my price range @ $450
I have a set of Phil/Velocity Atals wheels built to 130 OLD. The rear is the Phil cassette hub and the front is the Phil "Rivy" hub from Rivendell. Both are exceptionally outstandingly beautiful- the sparkle factor is off the charts. And they roll so smoothly. The "Rivy" hub is a high flange, oval cutout hub that sorta looks like an old Atom hub or similar, but blindingly brightly polished and smoother than greased teflon. The rear hub is, again, beautifully polished and as smooth as the front. This is my first cassette hub- so getting used to the noise was a learning curve. I do love looking at them- I also enjoy seeing the high flange shadow on the pavement.

As much as I love the oval cutout high flanges, I don't think it makes much of any difference on the rear- the cassette or freewheel obscure it- that just wasn't important to me. I'm getting another wheel set built with a Phil rear cassette hub, but also with a SON hub in the front.


IMG_0091 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr


IMG_0079 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr


IMG_1714 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr


IMG_1713 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr


Phil n SON by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr
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Old 02-09-19, 04:31 PM
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If you want discs, there are always the Shimano FH-M756 hubs. Shimano has a couple of related 6-bolt disc hubs, and perhaps other related brands.

Black?



In theory, one could knock off the disc mount, and polish the hub to silver.
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Old 02-09-19, 04:53 PM
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"Shimano 600EX high-flange" - how did I not know these exist? Now must find.
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Old 02-09-19, 06:26 PM
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Alright, lots of great responses so far. Thanks everyone. Keep them coming.

Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
I have a set of Phil/Velocity Atals wheels built to 130 OLD. The rear is the Phil cassette hub and the front is the Phil "Rivy" hub from Rivendell. Both are exceptionally outstandingly beautiful- the sparkle factor is off the charts. And they roll so smoothly. The "Rivy" hub is a high flange, oval cutout hub that sorta looks like an old Atom hub or similar, but blindingly brightly polished and smoother than greased teflon. The rear hub is, again, beautifully polished and as smooth as the front. This is my first cassette hub- so getting used to the noise was a learning curve. I do love looking at them- I also enjoy seeing the high flange shadow on the pavement.

As much as I love the oval cutout high flanges, I don't think it makes much of any difference on the rear- the cassette or freewheel obscure it- that just wasn't important to me. I'm getting another wheel set built with a Phil rear cassette hub, but also with a SON hub in the front.
Beautiful hubs. I do realize it doesn't make much of a difference, strenght-wise, but I do like the look of high-flange hubs. If I ever save up the money for a new bike I'll keep the Phil hubs in mind.

Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
I agree on Ticino. I bought one of the last pair and sadly felt compelled to part with them for the money.

I do still have the Electra Ticino wheels and love them. The ride is great and they look fabulous. Only downside is they are not tubulars
Where did you get them? I wonder who made them. Apparently their Specialites TA/Stronglight 49D/Pro 5 Vis replica (image 1,image 2) was partially made by FSA.

They use this FSA RD-88 28H hub in their wheelsets:


Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
I have the VO hubs and the White Industries T11 hubs. The T11 are the current road/touring model. MI5 are mountain, though they offer them in 130 by request.

[...]

The VO hubs I have not built up yet. These were supposed to be for my heavy duty touring wheels, the ones I have yet to need. (Still waiting to have time for that 2 week tour... )The disassembly feature is pretty clever and functional, though probably not as necessary as it once was, since spokes are better and rarely break. Generally, the quality and finish doesn't look as nice as the T11 hubs. You get what you pay for. The cassette body is steel instead of titanium, IMO a better choice than aluminum. The front hub is a conventional type rather than an oversized axle type, and seems a bit cheaply made for the price. Not a concern for you. Obviously I can't speak to how they hold up in the rain. I suspect if they are oiled up with Tenacious oil to start with, and the pawls are kept lubricated at reasonably intervals, they should hold up OK.
Thanks for that bit of information. That is in line with what I have read so far. From what I have read steel works better when you are using cassettes with pinned together cogs but on the more expensive models (e.g. Sram PG-980 and PG-990) with a full spider it is less of an issue.

Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
I have a couple of Bitex hubs in use though not that particular model. I’ve been very pleased. Lightweight and fairly quiet.
​​​​​​​
Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
If you want discs, there are always the Shimano FH-M756 hubs. Shimano has a couple of related 6-bolt disc hubs, and perhaps other related brands.
In theory, one could knock off the disc mount, and polish the hub to silver.
No discs on this bike. It's a late 80's light touring bike so it has cantis.
I might be tempted to go that way as it appeals to my desire to tinker. Just get a brand new hub and polish it to a mirror shine. But that seems like a lot of work.

Originally Posted by jeirvine View Post
"Shimano 600EX high-flange" - how did I not know these exist? Now must find.
​​​​​​​More information and some pictures in this post, though to be fair, I haven't been able to find much more information.
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Old 02-09-19, 07:46 PM
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Alright, one more:
  1. Via Components Road rear hub
    • 269 grams, 24/32H, £143/$185/€165, their website only shows black but there is a silver version available. Partially ceramic bearings but I'm not entirely sure it's a high-flange hub. Maybe medium-flange
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Old 02-09-19, 08:45 PM
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@JaccoW I bought them direct form Electra around 2011 but as I said they were some of the last ones
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Old 02-09-19, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by JaccoW View Post
Beautiful hubs. I do realize it doesn't make much of a difference, strenght-wise, but I do like the look of high-flange hubs. If I ever save up the money for a new bike I'll keep the Phil hubs in mind.
What I was saying about the rear hub is that you don't really ever see it. It's obscured by the cassette/freewheel and the dropouts. If you're going to to put in extra effort/money to get a high flange hub option- there's no real return unless you look at your hub from the non-drive side from above and to the rear.

I've never seen any actual data about what makes for a stronger wheel- just people talking about stiffness/spoke length/blah blah blah... People say one is superior to the other using the same arguments that people say the opposite. If there is a difference, it's minimal. I'd never be able to tell. I just think they're pretty.
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Old 02-09-19, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
If you want discs, there are always the Shimano FH-M756 hubs. Shimano has a couple of related 6-bolt disc hubs, and perhaps other related brands.

Black?

In theory, one could knock off the disc mount, and polish the hub to silver.
I did exactly that. Disassembled the hub, chucked it in a lathe, cut off the disc tabs, polished, and reassembled. I didn't respace it to 130mm OLD, which the OP requested. It lives on my wife's Gold Rush recumbent.

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Old 02-09-19, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jeirvine View Post
"Shimano 600EX high-flange" - how did I not know these exist? Now must find.
They appeared in the 1982 Shimano dealer catalog. However, I can't recall ever seeing some in the flesh despite liking unusual bike parts and working in a shop back then. I was too enamored of the AX parts to take notice of the "ordinary" touring hubs.

Bless Sheldon for preserving the catalog for us: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/shimano1982/pages/24.html
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Old 02-10-19, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Wills View Post
I did exactly that. Disassembled the hub, chucked it in a lathe, cut off the disc tabs, polished, and reassembled. I didn't respace it to 130mm OLD, which the OP requested. It lives on my wife's Gold Rush recumbent.


It should be easy enough to space it for 130mm, although it appears as if some come with that MTB boot/seal, and some don't. Still, it is something that could be worked with.
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Old 02-10-19, 05:28 AM
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I bit the bullet on my end, found the SUNxcd hub for £105/$135/€120 shipped Edit: seems like I got the last one.

I'll update the first post a bit more so others can use this in the future. Thanks for your help everyone, feel free to discuss your experiences a bit more in this thread.
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Old 02-10-19, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Wills View Post
I did exactly that. Disassembled the hub, chucked it in a lathe, cut off the disc tabs, polished, and reassembled. I didn't respace it to 130mm OLD, which the OP requested. It lives on my wife's Gold Rush recumbent.
Bit of work but seems like one of the cheaper options @ $40 for the hub. Looks good
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Old 02-10-19, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
What I was saying about the rear hub is that you don't really ever see it. It's obscured by the cassette/freewheel and the dropouts. If you're going to to put in extra effort/money to get a high flange hub option- there's no real return unless you look at your hub from the non-drive side from above and to the rear.

I've never seen any actual data about what makes for a stronger wheel- just people talking about stiffness/spoke length/blah blah blah... People say one is superior to the other using the same arguments that people say the opposite. If there is a difference, it's minimal. I'd never be able to tell. I just think they're pretty.
I hear you. There is a lot of debate but the one that does seem to make sense is that it used to reduce spoke breakage when the quality of steel spokes wasn't as good as it is now. Nowadays however it doesn't make any difference anymore.

I just like the way they look.
Sometimes one can take pleasure in knowing that it is there, for example knowing every bolt is stainless steel/titanium or using spoke plugs instead of rim tape. Minimal gains (if any) but it's nice to know it is there.
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Old 02-10-19, 06:10 AM
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Looks like you have a few options direct from Gran Bois in Japan: https://cyclesgrandbois.com/SHOP/785129/list.html
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Old 02-10-19, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
Looks like you have a few options direct from Gran Bois in Japan: https://cyclesgrandbois.com/SHOP/785129/list.html
True but their shipping is $20 if I recall correctly and my experience with shipping from Japan is that I almost always get hit with another 21% in taxes and €13 in extra costs.
So that brings a €144 hub to €207 or $235. I do know a local shop that orders items from them from time to time so we can share shipping costs. I did just that for their Velo du Reve EB-fittings for a rando bag.
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Old 02-10-19, 09:57 AM
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  1. American Classic RD 205 Rear Hub
    • 205 grams/7.23oz, 24/28/32H, Campy/Shimano-compatible, $264
    • Only available in black and a 135mm MTB 210 Rear Hub.
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