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Carlton Franco-Suisse-My new to me beautiful rip-off!

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Carlton Franco-Suisse-My new to me beautiful rip-off!

Old 02-11-19, 01:00 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Pcampeau View Post


What now?
I found a sticker on the chainstay that I thought would probably be difficult to peel so I would use a heat gun to soften the glue later. I should have known better!
That's so wrong on many levels but in some means, can't fully blame the seller. You don't know if he knew prior of it and or the decal was already affixed.

Getting past the negatives, I would go for the fix and get that frame rolling once again. It wouldn't take much. Remove the paint around it and inside substance, snip the corners and slightly fold in the sides as 'flaps'. Patch with steel and braze. File to finish.
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Old 02-11-19, 02:56 PM
  #27  
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PM sent

Since you might have to repair it, Iíd call the seller and see if you could get a partial refund to cover the repair costs.
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Old 02-11-19, 03:03 PM
  #28  
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As for the serial number and date of this, it can't be earlier than late 1959 as the Franco-Suisse was introduced for the 1960 model year and Carlton's top model.

There is some information on it my article on Carlton export models to the U.S. here:

https://on-the-drops.blogspot.com/20...cycles-us.html

Peter Kohler
Washington DC USA
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Old 02-11-19, 03:10 PM
  #29  
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Wouldn't take too long for cracks to start developing at the corners of that square hole, just from normal flexing of the stay, if it is not repaired. The seller pretty much sold you a possible lethal timebomb of a frame if he/she knew about that damage.....
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Old 02-11-19, 04:14 PM
  #30  
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I am trying to figure out why someone would cut a square hole in that tube.
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Old 02-11-19, 04:22 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by dweenk View Post
I am trying to figure out why someone would cut a square hole in that tube.
dope
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Old 02-11-19, 04:26 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by crank_addict View Post
dope
As in: He was a dope, a place to store dope, or both? Maybe he never heard of condoms in the seat tube.
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Old 02-11-19, 05:14 PM
  #33  
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The bike was advertised as a 1959 model. And it is a pretty frame!
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Old 02-11-19, 05:38 PM
  #34  
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It's possible someone tried to "repair" a rust hole, or some other type of damage. I would certainly inspect the inside of the chainstays at least.
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Old 02-11-19, 08:33 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Hudson308 View Post
It's possible someone tried to "repair" a rust hole, or some other type of damage. I would certainly inspect the inside of the chainstays at least.
I think thatís probably what it is. There is a slight bend in the bottom bracket spindle. The cutout is perfectly placed where the teeth from a small chainring could have rubbed the chainstay. It likely rusted and the damage was cut away. Itís just a guess of course but it makes sense to me.

Last edited by Pcampeau; 02-11-19 at 10:25 PM.
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Old 02-11-19, 08:36 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by ddeand View Post
The bike was advertised as a 1959 model. And it is a pretty frame!
Thanks. The PM you sent may prove to be useful. Iíll let you know.
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Old 02-11-19, 08:48 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by kohl57 View Post
As for the serial number and date of this, it can't be earlier than late 1959 as the Franco-Suisse was introduced for the 1960 model year and Carlton's top model.

There is some information on it my article on Carlton export models to the U.S. here:

https://on-the-drops.blogspot.com/20...cycles-us.html

Peter Kohler
Washington DC USA
Thank you Peter! Iím quite a fan of your blog. Iíve read through it many times and itís where I first learned about this model. I was quite happy to find this frame until the sticker-shock, and Iím not talking about the price. Still, I really like this frame. Iíll find a way to get it rolling!

Last edited by Pcampeau; 02-11-19 at 10:00 PM.
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Old 02-11-19, 08:55 PM
  #38  
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Thank you to all of you for your helpful and proactive suggestions! You people make it easier to move on after being made to feel like a foolish sucker.

Last edited by Pcampeau; 02-11-19 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 02-11-19, 11:53 PM
  #39  
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Bizarre! How did that square hole get there? Is that on the downtube?
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Old 02-12-19, 12:01 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
Bizarre! How did that square hole get there? Is that on the downtube?
itís on the drive side chainstay.
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Old 02-12-19, 12:09 AM
  #41  
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That can be fixed. If you can't find somebody to do the job, PM me. I hate to see an otherwise good frame go to waste.
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Old 02-12-19, 12:25 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
That can be fixed. If you can't find somebody to do the job, PM me. I hate to see an otherwise good frame go to waste.
Thanks! Iíll look locally first but if I canít get a good response then youíll get that PM. Iíve not posted here for all that long but Iíve been reading and following bike forums for several years and am aware of the fact that youíve done wonderful work here for other members. I very much appreciate youíre response to this.

Paul
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Old 02-12-19, 09:02 AM
  #43  
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Another recommendation is Bill Stevenson of Stevenson Custom Bikes, Lacey WA. In addition to building custom Stevenson bikes he does repair/restorations of vintage bikes. You can call and talk to him at: (360) 402-2234. His shop opens at 10:00 AM PST. He does excellent work and has access to painter and chrome plater if needed. He repaired one vintage frame that decided to fly off the car rack and owners comment was it was better than when bought new.
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Old 02-12-19, 09:22 AM
  #44  
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Is that where you stash your PEDs?
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Old 02-12-19, 09:33 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
That can be fixed. If you can't find somebody to do the job, PM me. I hate to see an otherwise good frame go to waste.
Curious how you would approach the repair? Replace the whole tube?

If one would be willing to risk Tig welding it, it should be easy enough to cut a patch to fit, and tig into place.

Otherwise, perhaps brazing a 2-layer patch into place. One might have good access from inside the bottom bracket to push the patch into place.
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Old 02-12-19, 09:58 AM
  #46  
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I received the sellers phone number from someone who attended the bike swap. I sent him a message so weíll see if he gets back to me. I told him that I wasnít rushing to judgment about him or the way that he does business, that I have no idea if he knew what was under that sticker or not, and that Iím a calm and reasonable person to deal with. I also asked if there was someway we could make this right.
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Old 02-12-19, 10:10 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
That can be fixed. If you can't find somebody to do the job, PM me. I hate to see an otherwise good frame go to waste.
Originally Posted by Pcampeau View Post
I received the sellers phone number from someone who attended the bike swap. I sent him a message so weíll see if he gets back to me. I told him that I wasnít rushing to judgment about him or the way that he does business, that I have no idea if he knew what was under that sticker or not, and that Iím a calm and reasonable person to deal with. I also asked if there was someway we could make this right.
That is probably a good first start.

How much did you pay for the frame? I could imagine a tinkerer taking that as a project frame, but not for very much. $50-$100?
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Old 02-12-19, 10:28 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
That frame is too nice to just let it go. The obvious repair would be to braze a plate over the hole. I think that would work but you need a framebuilder's opinion. Touchup paint not too difficult and you get a story. Or replace the entire tube. That could get expensive and would never really match. Don't go there until three framebuilders have said no to simpler repairs. Also a builder should very very thoroughly inspect to see if there is further craziness.

At height of drillium craze time trial frames were being built with slots cut out of chainstay. Those frames were not long-lived but they did work. A simple patch will work a lot better than a hole.
Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Curious how you would approach the repair? Replace the whole tube?

If one would be willing to risk Tig welding it, it should be easy enough to cut a patch to fit, and tig into place.

Otherwise, perhaps brazing a 2-layer patch into place. One might have good access from inside the bottom bracket to push the patch into place.
I think these options are both worth pursuing.
My first inclination would be to talk to a framebuilder who is experienced with TIG. If that doesn't work out I would look at brazing in a plate that is larger than the hole but small enough to fit diagonally through the square hole into the inside of the stay. Braze it inside, then restore cosmetics with body filler and touch-up paint.

Don't give up. Definitely a bike worth saving!
Brent
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Old 02-12-19, 10:31 AM
  #49  
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...I'll just echo the people who've told you that's probably worth the time and money to repair, FWIW. I have a recently restored to riding Carlton Flyer of about the same age and construction, and they are a fine ride.
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Old 02-12-19, 10:39 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by obrentharris View Post
I think these options are both worth pursuing.
My first inclination would be to talk to a framebuilder who is experienced with TIG. If that doesn't work out I would look at brazing in a plate that is larger than the hole but small enough to fit diagonally through the square hole into the inside of the stay. Braze it inside, then restore cosmetics with body filler and touch-up paint.

Don't give up. Definitely a bike worth saving!
Brent
I was going to say the diagonal. But, it depends on the access inside the bottom bracket if that is better.

From the photos, the chrome looks like it is pretty good shape, so I'd tend to patch rather than replace.

That whole thing is really odd. It is easy enough to dimple a tube if one needs sprocket clearance.

I suppose one could have chewed a hole through the tubing, then wanted to repair it, and changed one's mind. But, still... even if one had chewed a hole in it, one could likely have simply filled it with brass or silver, and been fine.
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