BikeWonder

Hello everyone.

I was wondering which wheelset would have better rolling ability if:

- same spoke brand and quality
- same rims and spoke count
- same hub set
- same bearings
- same tires

etc. Basically, everything between the two wheelsets would be identical in terms of quality and finish. My question is, which,in theory, would have better rolling ability and speed?

I see the comparison between 29 vs 650b/27.5 vs 26 inch in MTB culture where many feel that a better wheel set provides better rolling ability.

I wonder what would be the case for 700c vs 27inch (assuming again that they both have the highest quality of identical parts to them). Set aside risk factors or availability.

Totally open ended and I am aware there are various factors at play. Cheers!

cannonride15

Realistically and measurably no difference, why do you ask?

Kuromori

700c is basically for access to good tires. If you're just going to run 32mm Paselas there's no particular reason to convert. The difference in diameter is only 8mm.

Piff 

The only way I could see this being significant is for craziness like Race across America where every second counts.

SurferRosa

It's sorta relevant in terms of the 700c conversion conundrum: being able to (a) still acquire tires in the width you want and (b) also to use a vintage brake like the originals.

due ruote 

Bianchigirll 

I agree with Kuromori, if all things equal with the wheel the only difference is the tire. If you shod both with a good basic tire like say a Panaracer Pasela which is great for most all riding then there is no noticeable difference. The big difference would be if you put some super fancy tire$ on the 700c wheels you might feel a difference in the handling and overall ride quality.

However there is simply a better selection of higher quality 700 wheels and rims simply because the industry turned that way in the mid to late '80s. More and more 'racing' bikes came with 700c wheels and when hybrids were introduced they also had 700c wheels. As lower end "10 speeds" left the market place the OEM market for 27" wheels dried up so did the aftermarket eventually.

Does anyone even make a high quality 27" rim these days?

Road Fan

The engineering side says, a wheel (tire plus rim) with a larger diameter will roll more smoothly over a normal road surface, especially in this case where we stipulate everything else is the same. That's not the imagination of Road Fan the engineer, but I read it in Archibald Sharp's book on bicycle engineering where he collected everything that was already known as of about 1897. But the difference in diameter is 8 mm, so the difference in radius is only 4 mm, less than 1/4 inch. Practically it won't make a difference, in my opinion. And if the 32 mm tire on the 700 is very high quality and the one on the 630 is your generic 27 x 1 1/4 tire available today, the 700 could even have better performance.

Road Fan

Sun CR18?

DiegoFrogs

I think the real issue is that the 27" rims that came on the types of sport-touring bikes that I like were always single-walled without eyelets. I would never buy a new rim or wheel with a single wall today.

Salamandrine 

For the most part yes, but for high end bikes both Rigida and Super Champion Gentlemens came in 27", because the size was so dominant once. Both are double wall rims. Rigida had only single eyelets. Also, the better single wall rims weren't actually single wall. They were only single wall in the very center of the extruded profile, and had double hollow tubular sections in the corners. They could be very strong.

Besides the CR-18, Sun sells the M13 in 27", and if you peel the sticker off if looks just like the old Rigida. Perfect replacement for a 70's Motobecane Grand Touring/Jubilee etc.

RobbieTunes

...but the 27" bikes I've had were silky smooth, and my reptilian brain attributed it to that out of an urge to understand.

TenGrainBread 

There will be no discernable difference between 700c and 27" on the road. It matters more for offroad because wheel diameter affects handling over rough terrain more than pavement or gravel.

machinist42

African or European swallow?

Darth Lefty 

The Golden Boy 

Velocity makes the Synergy in 27"

Velocity - Rims, Touring, 27"

The Golden Boy 

Most of my bikes are still rolling with 27" wheels- mostly because that's what they came with, and I happen to have some pretty nice 27" wheels.

For a long time I didn't really understand the advantage of 700C. The advantage is more options for tires- while I was absolutely fine with either Paselas, TG/PT Paselas or Sand Canyon tires- More or less because I didn't have any other point of reference- I didn't know what I was missing.

Getting a set of the Compass tires was more awesome than the cushiest tires (Specialized Expedition) tires I'd experienced.

While I do have a whole lot of nice 27" wheels, I think I may, at some time- or little by little- switch the fleet over to 700C.

3alarmer 

...people smirk and belittle me when I say this, but the Sun CR-18's in 27" build up a perfectly acceptable wheel if you put Pasela tyres on them. One of the issues I see a lot is that they end up clad with some god awful, heavy assed tyre.

mpetry912 

700c (ETRTO / ISO 622) wheel is marginally quicker and as several have pointed out you have a much wider tire selection.

27 is a leftover standard from the 50s/60s for US made "10 speed" bikes (Schwinn Varsity etc).

For me the 27 is a dead standard because the range of brake adjustment on most bikes is set up for 700 size rims.

I do have a Mark 1 white Raleigh Pro that has huge clearance with the brake blocks at the bottom of the slots. I suspect these Raleighs (like the international / competition etc) were set up to accommodate 27 size wheels.

700 for me. It's not a close thing.

Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA USA

ThermionicScott 

Looks like they also make the Dyad in 27": Velocity Wheels - Hand Made in USA

The Synergy and Twin Hollow are completely gone from their main product page, so I wonder if they are discontinued and selling whatever leftover stock they have.

More generally, there is no technical reason why a rim with a 630mm BSD would roll any better or worse than a rim with 622mm BSD, if they had the same construction otherwise. 27" simply lost the "format war" in the long run, as it were.

Chr0m0ly 

Salamandrine 

27" is a British standard, introduced by Dunlop in the 1930s. It became the US standard lightweight/10 speed size in the 50s, 60s and 70s. It remained a standard size on touring bikes through the mid 80s, because it was easier to find replacement tires in small towns. 700c was still exotic and European.

Is it a dead standard? Sure, but not long dead, and if an older bike was set up for it in most cases best to keep the original size.

CliffordK

Velo Orange also has a narrow 27" rim.
https://velo-orange.com/products/vo-pbp-27inch-rims

I can't say if it is any better than the narrow Rigida or Wolber or similar rims from yester-year.

It looks like it is only offered in 36h.

There also appears to be a Sun CR18 in both 32h and 36h.
https://www.amazon.com/SunRingle-Sun.../dp/B0028N0Z2A

But, as others have mentioned, the selection of rims is very limited.

The selection of tires, especially narrower sizes are also very limited. I think I found a 27x1 Panaracer.

There is also a wider 27x1 1/4 Gatorskin.

In theory, your contact patch would be slightly better for 27", but I have no idea how much overall difference that would make. Probably minimal considering that one is missing out on all the high-end tires. Vittoria Corsa Speed? Various tubeless? Tubulars? Open Tubulars, etc.

randyjawa 

All things being absolutely equal, other that the defined difference, 27" vs 700c, the 700c will, without doubt, offer a more lively ride quality. Why? Simply because the 27" set will have a greater diameter than the 700c set. The further the rolling weight is away from the axle, the greater the negative impact on ride feel. Want to prove it, easily, to yourself..?

Get a wheel, any wheel. Hold it, snugly, by the axle and tip the wheel this from side to side. Very little, if any, resistance, right? Now, holding the axle tight, give the wheel a gentle spin and try tipping it side to side. Feel the resistance? You bet you do. Now, spin the wheel faster and try tipping it again. Even more resistance!

So, the larger diameter will negatively impact ride feel. Heavy rims, tires, inner tubes and the like will also negatively impact the ride feel.

Of course, I am old and might well be wrong

due ruote