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Steel frames with "dropped" seatstays

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Steel frames with "dropped" seatstays

Old 03-21-19, 04:20 PM
  #1  
mecheng
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Steel frames with "dropped" seatstays

With the lugged frame construction, it's a no-brainer decision to join the seatstays to the ST and TT at the same point. I'm interested in seeing/learning of old steel frames (lugged or non-lugged) where the seatstays join the seat tube below the top tube. This design is becoming quite popular among new bikes for better bump isolation, but curious what options there are in the vintage scene.
I've seen Nishiki NFS (Alpha/Beta). What else is out there?
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Old 03-21-19, 04:54 PM
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Are you counting triple triangle frames? Same thing but they continue on and attach to the top tube.
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Old 03-21-19, 04:59 PM
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Raleigh Professionals came with "fastback" seat stays from about 1971 or 1972.

If I may use one of Kurt's pictures to illustrate:



(fwiw - this style never has appealed to me)
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Old 03-21-19, 05:06 PM
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A local collector has Motorola Team Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra with dropped seatstays.
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Old 03-21-19, 08:21 PM
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Old 03-21-19, 08:48 PM
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Colnago Equilateral
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Old 03-21-19, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mecheng View Post
Well the bottle cage was in the way

I'm not sure if there was any theory behind it, just another way of doing it and a point of difference.
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Old 03-21-19, 09:45 PM
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mecheng
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Originally Posted by jbchybridrider View Post
Goooorgeous. What is it?
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Old 03-21-19, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Chr0m0ly View Post
Are you counting triple triangle frames? Same thing but they continue on and attach to the top tube.
Like the GTs? Not my original intention, but from a smoothing perspective, I think it's a good idea. A Scott Solace I used to own did something similar by bonding the seatstays to the top tube. Was a smooth riding bike for sure!
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Old 03-21-19, 10:56 PM
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I’m not sure the designs that drop the Seat stay terminus really do a lot, and especially a softer ride, the Hellenic stayed frames, Hutchins, Colnago equilateral, GT, if anything add vertical rigidity. As for the bike in the original post, I bet the quantity of seatpost in the Seat tube could play a noticeable part in assessment.

in the not so distant past, I think now defunct Volagi where the Seat stays bypassed the Seat tube and ended at the top tube with an arc along the path might add some flexibility in a useful way.

then there is the Kirk terraplane.
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Old 03-21-19, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by P!N20 View Post
Well the bottle cage was in the way

I'm not sure if there was any theory behind it, just another way of doing it and a point of difference.
an instance where I cannot really tell the wheel size... 650c? 24”?
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Old 03-21-19, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post


an instance where I cannot really tell the wheel size... 650c? 24”?
Yes, those came with 650c
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Old 03-22-19, 05:37 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by P!N20 View Post
Well the bottle cage was in the way

I'm not sure if there was any theory behind it, just another way of doing it and a point of difference.
The Nishiki Alpha & Beta were part of the NFS (Need For Speed) series designed by Richard Cunningham. This series was designed around smaller. stiffer, lighter and more areodynamic 650C wheels. As such, they were popular with triathletes and duathletes. Mounting a bottle behind the seat tube was appealing to the target market, as it is more aerodynamic in a short event where only one bottle was required, while allowing for up to three bottles, should an Ironman event be contested.
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Old 03-22-19, 10:29 AM
  #14  
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Don't know if Hellenic stays count, but here's one I did for a friend.

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Old 03-22-19, 11:20 AM
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not c&v, but the frame I built last winter has stays brazed to the seat tube. A heart shaped piece of metal was brazed to the frame and the stays were brazed to the heart.
I didnt want traditional spoon style plugs and like some of the fastback styles, but not all of them. So this was a 3rd route I decided to go with.



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Old 03-22-19, 11:24 AM
  #16  
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Strawberry frame.
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Old 03-22-19, 11:33 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
I’m not sure the designs that drop the Seat stay terminus really do a lot, and especially a softer ride, the Hellenic stayed frames, Hutchins, Colnago equilateral, GT, if anything add vertical rigidity. As for the bike in the original post, I bet the quantity of seatpost in the Seat tube could play a noticeable part in assessment.


Yeah I agree. If anything that is going to make the rear triangle stiffer. It will also make the seat junction area weaker.

I can see how that feature could be utilized as part of an engineered system on a carbon fiber plastic bike to soften the ride, if combined with an arched TT and some FEA. For steel, it's probably just style and fashion for the most part.

For a softer ride, longer chainstays is what you want -- and fatter tires.
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Old 03-22-19, 11:55 AM
  #18  
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There was a Gitane Funny Bike that was posted a while ago.

Steel road bike. Particular stays. ID?




I presume the idea was that the dropped stays were a bit more aero.
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Old 03-22-19, 03:00 PM
  #19  
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The "fastback" variant where stay tops are brazed/welded to some kind of reinforcing plate on the back of the seat tube is known as the "Brampton Victor" style. Raleigh was the most visible proponent since they sold so many Raleigh Pros that used it but they were not the inventor or by any means exclusive users.
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Old 03-22-19, 04:40 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
not c&v, but the frame I built last winter has stays brazed to the seat tube. A heart shaped piece of metal was brazed to the frame and the stays were brazed to the heart.
I didnt want traditional spoon style plugs and like some of the fastback styles, but not all of them. So this was a 3rd route I decided to go with.


I remember that one. Mitering those stays must have been a high degree of difficulty. Chapeu!
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Old 03-22-19, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
not c&v, but the frame I built last winter has stays brazed to the seat tube. A heart shaped piece of metal was brazed to the frame and the stays were brazed to the heart.
I didnt want traditional spoon style plugs and like some of the fastback styles, but not all of them. So this was a 3rd route I decided to go with.



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Old 03-23-19, 08:19 AM
  #22  
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I remember PCB had a gorgeous Mooney like that a while back.
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Old 03-23-19, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
The "fastback" variant where stay tops are brazed/welded to some kind of reinforcing plate on the back of the seat tube is known as the "Brampton Victor" style. Raleigh was the most visible proponent since they sold so many Raleigh Pros that used it but they were not the inventor or by any means exclusive users.
intetesting- I hadn't heard that term before. Time for some web lookin!
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Old 03-23-19, 09:05 AM
  #24  
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Got this '87 Shogun Ninja a few years ago, but haven't built it up yet. I fear it might be stiff as hell, as the seatstays are brazed both to the seat tube down low and at the top tube forward of the seat tube.

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Old 03-23-19, 09:06 AM
  #25  
calamarichris
Horse Categorie
 
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Posts: 6,129

Bikes: '09 Felt F55, '84 Masi Cran Criterium, (2)'86 Schwinn Pelotons, '86 Look Equippe Hinault, '09 Globe Live 3 (dogtaxi), '94 Greg Lemond, '99 GT Pulse Kinesis

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Got this '87 Shogun Ninja a few years ago, but haven't built it up yet. I fear it might be stiff as hell, as the seatstays are brazed both to the seat tube down low and at the top tube forward of the seat tube.



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