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HELP! Eroica is coming and I can't get this figured out

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HELP! Eroica is coming and I can't get this figured out

Old 03-25-19, 11:12 AM
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HELP! Eroica is coming and I can't get this figured out



I am having to stop every 20 miles or so and raise my seat post. it seems to be incapable of staying put. I snapped the seat post binder bolt when I first took out the seat post and greased it because I kept adding torque to keep it in place. I went to my stash, because I knew I had a Campy seat post binder from BITD... to big of a diameter. I went to the LBS and got a "close" to the same, and had to cut and mix and match so the shoulder of the bolt end, didn't hit the edge of the "nut" end. now that I have verified that the bolt isn't the issue, I am kind of lost. I am afraid to add more torque to the binder, and I am starting to doubt the seat post and seat tube are matching. the frame has no tubing sticker, but it is generally thought it is Columbus Aelle, and the seat post is 26.8, so this should work. I KNOW a 27.2 wont fit in there. If you look at the picture attached, you can see the bottom of the slot and the top of the slot are different widths (top is narrower, pinched). any ideas? I am also starting to see the paint in that are (seat collar) starting to chip, as if the seat post binder tabs are bending or at least stressing.

Last edited by mgopack42; 03-25-19 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 03-25-19, 11:25 AM
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I would gently open up that slot with a large flat blade screwdriver and a rubber hammer, then put in a 27.0 seatpost.
Might have to hone the seat tube a little to get it smooth inside. Ball type hones that fit your drill are like $8 at an auto parts store.
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Old 03-25-19, 11:29 AM
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telescoping hole gauge is really what is needed for problems like this. I bought a cheap set off of amazon, now I wish I just bought the appropriate size Starrett. You do need some slop though. .2mm is what I remember being recommended by Waterford.
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Old 03-25-19, 11:40 AM
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The post is clearly undersized, and the seat lug ears are bent in. The slot edges should be parallel.

The correct solution is to take it to a well equipped bike shop, and have them spread the seat lug ears back out. That should be followed up by reaming with the correct size seat tube reamer to clean up the inevitable distortion. It would help if they have a seatpost sizing gauge, but a variety of seatposts in the junk bin will also work. If the bike is SL, it should be 27.2.

Campagnolo seatpost bolts are very small for the job they do, and it only works when everything is set up correctly and precisely. If you don't, the bolts will break. There's a reason old PX10's and what not had big honking seatpost bolts. They needed them to deal with the typical sloppy fit.
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Old 03-25-19, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by rccardr
I would gently open up that slot with a large flat blade screwdriver and a rubber hammer, then put in a 27.0 seatpost.
Might have to hone the seat tube a little to get it smooth inside. Ball type hones that fit your drill are like $8 at an auto parts store.
^^^This

Carefully spread, clean and hone seatlug and tube, install 27.0 post.

Looks like the clamp slot is touching when tight so not clamping. You could file the slot for more clamping but it looks like the paint is stress cracked so the clamp is at its limit and may be cracking too.

You could also get a collar for the post to keep it from slipping down under insufficient lug clamp torque.

Proceed with extreme caution.
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Old 03-25-19, 11:45 AM
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It is possible , to 1,) spread the ears apart , until the slot is parallel, again,

and then with the next larger size seat post ..

2) get the frame tube bored out with an adjustable reamer to the precise fit of that new seat post

& have it by virtue of that fit take very little squeeze to make a secure grip '
& by having the ID smooth..

raising/ lowering the post should not leave scratches ..


I did this to use a 27.2 seat post in a frame originally with a 27.0 post in it..

May not be a butted seat tube .. but straight gage ..

[I have another bike built with out a butted tube set , straight gage 0.9mm wall it uses a 28.6 seat post]







..

Last edited by fietsbob; 03-25-19 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 03-25-19, 12:02 PM
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Every one who tried to help me identify the bike, all postulated it was Aelle based on the seat post size. if it should be 27.0, what (probably Columbus) seat post tube would have a 27.0 ID on an Italian bike. The steerer tube isn't rifled, but I haven't looked at the bottom of the seat tube. (since the judgement was made!)
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Old 03-25-19, 12:10 PM
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If you are desperate and don’t have time to source the proper post, you could shim that one with a piece of beer can.
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Old 03-25-19, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by due ruote
If you are desperate and don’t have time to source the proper post, you could shim that one with a piece of beer can.
Good back up plan. Now i have to find some time to shop for beer too!
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Old 03-25-19, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mgopack42
Good back up plan. Now i have to find some time to shop for beer too!
Italian beer of course. Don't try this with Budweiser.
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Old 03-25-19, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by davester
Italian beer of course. Don't try this with Budweiser.
of course not, we are talking beer, not what ever that is! Bud is to beer, what cheese whiz is to cheese!
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Old 03-25-19, 01:22 PM
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Reamers:
https://framebuilding.com/economy%20...mebuilding.htm
https://framebuilding.com/best%20quality.htm
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Old 03-25-19, 02:04 PM
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If you do use the birra moretti shim method, be sure to leave a tab of the can folded over the seat cluster so you don't loose it down the seat tube.
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Old 03-25-19, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Chr0m0ly
If you do use the birra moretti shim method, be sure to leave a tab of the can folded over the seat cluster so you don't loose it down the seat tube.
Online resarch tell me a beer can i 0.097mm in thickness. 2 X that is just a shade under 0.2 mm. seems like that puts me at 27.0. I will give it a
try and report back
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Old 03-25-19, 03:03 PM
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All the above ideas are good. On a slightly different track be sure the seat post clamping screw is the right length. Can't see it, but if it's in two parts it may be bottoming out before the post is clamped tightly. You can grind down the female part of the screw, or put a washer under one head of the screw to give more thread engagement before the screw bottoms out. I had to do that on my Super Course. I have a Peugeot with a similar problem that I haven't had time to check out - happened twice yesterday on a 37 mile ride. It is maddening. Try the shim, or if you're out of beer, check that the screw is tightening the clamp fully. The previous owner had some kind of anti-theft screw that I replaced with a normal double ended hex head seat clamp screw.

Last edited by Slightspeed; 03-25-19 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 03-25-19, 03:03 PM
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One way to open up a collapsed seat lug is to put in a quill stem with some shims around it, and then tighten the bolt on the stem. That has the advantage of using round surfaces to push outward so that you can keep the opening more circular than if you just went at it with screwdrivers.
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Old 03-25-19, 03:05 PM
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Aluminium from a Guinness can* would be a little more stout.
Aluminium from a Foster's can would have to go in upside down.

Waitaminit -- for Eroica, won't the can need to be at least 30 years old? How thick were they back then?





* (Disclaimer - in real life, the words "Guinness" and "can" should never appear next to one another.)

Last edited by madpogue; 03-25-19 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 03-25-19, 03:05 PM
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Better make sure that is a vintage Italian beer can so you don't get DQ'd at the start...
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Old 03-25-19, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mgopack42
Every one who tried to help me identify the bike, all postulated it was Aelle based on the seat post size. if it should be 27.0, what (probably Columbus) seat post tube would have a 27.0 ID on an Italian bike. The steerer tube isn't rifled, but I haven't looked at the bottom of the seat tube. (since the judgement was made!)
Columbus SP can take a 27.0 post. That is often used on little bit bigger frames 57 and larger.
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Old 03-25-19, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by madpogue
Aluminium from a Guinness can* would be a little more stout.
Aluminium from a Foster's can would have to go in upside down.





* (Disclaimer - in real life, the words "Guinness" and "can" should never be seen next to one another.)
I just have to say I like Guinness from the cans with the little gizmo inside them that gives it the “from the tap” like head. Only thing is you don’t get the little dollop of foam at the bottom of the glass when you finish it off.
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Old 03-25-19, 03:21 PM
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correct that if this is definitely Aelle (regular) then 26.8 would be the USUAL seatpost diameter, but if this is one of the Ciocc frames without any Columbus decal (is it TSD?) it's possibly some blend of tubing (perhaps Tre-Tubi) OR was Aelle but reamed out a little... so definitely would do all that's been suggested for a 27.0 test but ALSO have you mic'd the post itself? Tried some other "26.8" posts to see if you had one at the very small end of the tolerance scale?
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Old 03-25-19, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1
correct that if this is definitely Aelle (regular) then 26.8 would be the USUAL seatpost diameter, but if this is one of the Ciocc frames without any Columbus decal (is it TSD?) it's possibly some blend of tubing (perhaps Tre-Tubi) OR was Aelle but reamed out a little... so definitely would do all that's been suggested for a 27.0 test but ALSO have you mic'd the post itself? Tried some other "26.8" posts to see if you had one at the very small end of the tolerance scale?
no Columbus decals, and no TSD embossed "rider" on the brake bridge. I suspect that this might be post TSD era. T-Mar seemed t think that might be the case, especially with the top to bottom / front to back of each tube fade paint job. . As you know Ciocc is shrouded in mystery! I wish my Mockba 80 (purchased and built in '82 or '83) had never been stolen!

time to get it to shop that has a reamer. I did like the quill stem idea as an expander, so i might try that. i am worried tht the ears are going to break off if it keeps going this way, you can see cracks in the paint where the ear is (i assume brazed) to the seat lug, which i (also ) assume is a stamped lug.
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Old 03-25-19, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by madpogue
Aluminium from a Foster's can would have to go in upside down.
You know we don't drink that here, right? In fact, I reckon I'd be struggling to buy one.

Originally Posted by madpogue
Waitaminit -- for Eroica, won't the can need to be at least 30 years old? How thick were they back then?
They were made of steel.
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Old 03-25-19, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by due ruote
If you are desperate and don’t have time to source the proper post, you could shim that one with a piece of beer can.
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance ftw!
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Old 03-25-19, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance ftw!
Quality book.
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