Brifters: Do they all suck this badly?
04-08-19, 02:58 AM
#51
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 6,480
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1361 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 422 Times
in
282 Posts
Stealth simplistic super wide range before the days of brifters. Precise and fast shift from tall gear sailing, everything in between to climbing walls.
Ingredients: quiet 6 sp. freewheel '120mm' spaced rear, friction barends, camouflaged tiny ring triple, and 'standard' cage.
No plastic.
Ps. Threw away the plastic floating pulleys. No sense having for this setup. Floaters make slop.
Happy trails~
Ingredients: quiet 6 sp. freewheel '120mm' spaced rear, friction barends, camouflaged tiny ring triple, and 'standard' cage.
No plastic.
Ps. Threw away the plastic floating pulleys. No sense having for this setup. Floaters make slop.
Happy trails~
Last edited by crank_addict; 04-08-19 at 10:05 AM.
04-08-19, 05:22 AM
#52
www.theheadbadge.com
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,500
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2414 Post(s)
Liked 4,374 Times
in
2,086 Posts
Stealth simplistic super wide range before the days of brifters. Precise and fast shift from tall gear sailing, everything in between to climbing walls.
Ingredients: quiet freewheel, '120mm' spaced rear, friction barends, camouflaged tiny ring triple, and 'standard' cage.
No plastic.
Ingredients: quiet freewheel, '120mm' spaced rear, friction barends, camouflaged tiny ring triple, and 'standard' cage.
No plastic.
That's a Shimano Light Action RD too, right, or a variant of such? If so, it has a bit of plastic (not much, but it does) and it also uses a spring to smooth out overshifts. Can work both in favor or against friction shifting.
-Kurt
__________________
04-08-19, 06:31 AM
#53
Senior Member
This notion that "bikes of old" were limited is nonsense. It gets repeated here endlessly and is simply factually wrong. Endless repetition of false information will not make it so.
04-08-19, 06:44 AM
#54
Senior Member
My first derailleur bike, purchased 1965, had a low gear of 39x28. That bike was not purchased from a specialist shop, it came from the Schwinn dealer. Mr. Schwinn had a 36 chainring sitting in normal inventory he could have popped onto my crank if I'd asked. Riding around on that bike it was soon discovered that 2 miles away another Schwinn dealer, operated by a tinkerer, could supply me with infinite gears, a Schwinn shop 4 miles away operated for racers could sell me low gears, a Raleigh store 8 miles away operated by a collector had super low gears on bikes sitting on the showroom floor. That dealer let me take a test ride on a Gitane fitted with a low of 28x30. In 1966. Soon after that I met Oscar Wastyn.......
This notion that "bikes of old" were limited is nonsense. It gets repeated here endlessly and is simply factually wrong. Endless repetition of false information will not make it so.
This notion that "bikes of old" were limited is nonsense. It gets repeated here endlessly and is simply factually wrong. Endless repetition of false information will not make it so.
Last edited by Steve Whitlatch; 04-08-19 at 06:50 AM.
04-08-19, 07:13 AM
#55
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,603
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10944 Post(s)
Liked 7,470 Times
in
4,179 Posts
My first derailleur bike, purchased 1965, had a low gear of 39x28. That bike was not purchased from a specialist shop, it came from the Schwinn dealer. Mr. Schwinn had a 36 chainring sitting in normal inventory he could have popped onto my crank if I'd asked. Riding around on that bike it was soon discovered that 2 miles away another Schwinn dealer, operated by a tinkerer, could supply me with infinite gears, a Schwinn shop 4 miles away operated for racers could sell me low gears, a Raleigh store 8 miles away operated by a collector had super low gears on bikes sitting on the showroom floor. That dealer let me take a test ride on a Gitane fitted with a low of 28x30. In 1966. Soon after that I met Oscar Wastyn.......
This notion that "bikes of old" were limited is nonsense. It gets repeated here endlessly and is simply factually wrong. Endless repetition of false information will not make it so.
This notion that "bikes of old" were limited is nonsense. It gets repeated here endlessly and is simply factually wrong. Endless repetition of false information will not make it so.
A Voyageur 11.8 came set up as 52-40 with a 13-28 cassette(that first gen cassette that disappeared). Thats a touring frame with a bailout of 39 gear inches. Absurd.
A 1987 Schwinn Tempo, which was a solidly mid-level 105 equipped road bike and nothing pro level about it, came with a bailout of 42-26 which is 43.75 gear inches. Thats better than the '88 model that had a 42-25 bailout!
An '87 Trek 560, also a 105 equipped mid-level road bike came with a 42-24t cassette.
I could go on and on and reference mid-level Miyata, Nishiki, Univega, Bridgestone, and Panasonic bikes with similar setups, but there is no need.
Reality is that in the 70s and very early 80s, mid-level road bikes came with easier gearing than similar level road bikes in the late 80s. Ultimately though, none of it is close to what comes stock on many mid-level road bikes now.
70s and early 80s- 39 or 42t small ring mated to a 28t freewheel.
mid80s into early 90s- 42t small ring mated to a 25 or 26t cassette.
current- 34t small ring mated to a 28 or 32t cassette.
There is a clear move to wider range gearing since the mid 80s. I dont know why gearing seemed to get more difficult in the 80s from what it used to be, but I have my guesses. I wasnt riding road bikes back then so I cant say for sure.
Point is- while your example is absolutely valid, so are all the examples of bikes I have refurbished and changed the freewheel/cassette on to make riding easier for the typically beginners who buy the bikes.
mid-level road bikes are consistently spec'd with 28t or 32t bailouts now with a 34t small ring. That is what I(and another poster) was referring to earlier. That is a huge difference from a 42-26 stock bailout from decades ago that was common on similar level bikes.
04-08-19, 07:46 AM
#56
Senior Member
Everything nowadays at LBS's are Brifters. I've joked with the people at my LBS (they're really cool and love my '85 Fuji) about staying "old school" as long as I can. I just can't bring myself to get used to Brifters. They're just a weird concept to me. Honest - I did try out a newer road bike that was my size, and it was a demo model with simple platform pedals. The geometry was all crazy and I felt like I was going to go over the handlebars, and fiddling with the brake levers & Brifters really threw me for a loop. I made a few laps in the parking lot and out onto a short side street, and just couldn't get into it. Call me a "retrogrouch". Call me a "technophobe". Whatever...
I will stick with my '85 Fuji's Suntour 6 speed 14-30 freewheel, 42-52 chainring, and downtube shifters. Easy peasy setup that will (hopefully) last forever!
I will stick with my '85 Fuji's Suntour 6 speed 14-30 freewheel, 42-52 chainring, and downtube shifters. Easy peasy setup that will (hopefully) last forever!
04-08-19, 09:13 AM
#57
Senior Member
Yes, some bikes came with a 39t front ring. And yes, there were some bikes that came with a 'wide' range freewheel that had a 28t cog. At the same time, there were a ton of bikes that were 53/42 or 52/42 up front mated to a freewheel where the larges cog was 25t or so.
A Voyageur 11.8 came set up as 52-40 with a 13-28 cassette(that first gen cassette that disappeared). Thats a touring frame with a bailout of 39 gear inches. Absurd.
A 1987 Schwinn Tempo, which was a solidly mid-level 105 equipped road bike and nothing pro level about it, came with a bailout of 42-26 which is 43.75 gear inches. Thats better than the '88 model that had a 42-25 bailout!
An '87 Trek 560, also a 105 equipped mid-level road bike came with a 42-24t cassette.
I could go on and on and reference mid-level Miyata, Nishiki, Univega, Bridgestone, and Panasonic bikes with similar setups, but there is no need.
Reality is that in the 70s and very early 80s, mid-level road bikes came with easier gearing than similar level road bikes in the late 80s. Ultimately though, none of it is close to what comes stock on many mid-level road bikes now.
70s and early 80s- 39 or 42t small ring mated to a 28t freewheel.
mid80s into early 90s- 42t small ring mated to a 25 or 26t cassette.
current- 34t small ring mated to a 28 or 32t cassette.
There is a clear move to wider range gearing since the mid 80s. I dont know why gearing seemed to get more difficult in the 80s from what it used to be, but I have my guesses. I wasnt riding road bikes back then so I cant say for sure.
Point is- while your example is absolutely valid, so are all the examples of bikes I have refurbished and changed the freewheel/cassette on to make riding easier for the typically beginners who buy the bikes.
mid-level road bikes are consistently spec'd with 28t or 32t bailouts now with a 34t small ring. That is what I(and another poster) was referring to earlier. That is a huge difference from a 42-26 stock bailout from decades ago that was common on similar level bikes.
A Voyageur 11.8 came set up as 52-40 with a 13-28 cassette(that first gen cassette that disappeared). Thats a touring frame with a bailout of 39 gear inches. Absurd.
A 1987 Schwinn Tempo, which was a solidly mid-level 105 equipped road bike and nothing pro level about it, came with a bailout of 42-26 which is 43.75 gear inches. Thats better than the '88 model that had a 42-25 bailout!
An '87 Trek 560, also a 105 equipped mid-level road bike came with a 42-24t cassette.
I could go on and on and reference mid-level Miyata, Nishiki, Univega, Bridgestone, and Panasonic bikes with similar setups, but there is no need.
Reality is that in the 70s and very early 80s, mid-level road bikes came with easier gearing than similar level road bikes in the late 80s. Ultimately though, none of it is close to what comes stock on many mid-level road bikes now.
70s and early 80s- 39 or 42t small ring mated to a 28t freewheel.
mid80s into early 90s- 42t small ring mated to a 25 or 26t cassette.
current- 34t small ring mated to a 28 or 32t cassette.
There is a clear move to wider range gearing since the mid 80s. I dont know why gearing seemed to get more difficult in the 80s from what it used to be, but I have my guesses. I wasnt riding road bikes back then so I cant say for sure.
Point is- while your example is absolutely valid, so are all the examples of bikes I have refurbished and changed the freewheel/cassette on to make riding easier for the typically beginners who buy the bikes.
mid-level road bikes are consistently spec'd with 28t or 32t bailouts now with a 34t small ring. That is what I(and another poster) was referring to earlier. That is a huge difference from a 42-26 stock bailout from decades ago that was common on similar level bikes.
In 1987 I was riding on the best clincher tires I could find, Specialized Turbo/S 700x32. Stiff and slippery. They measured 26mm wide. Every ride the group scoffed at my truck tires. Tandems went touring on tires narrower than that. I remember 1987 as an absolute nadir. There were a lot of bikes sold in 1987 that made no sense at all.
Schwinn Tempo and Trek 560 were unambiguously low price race bikes. Schwinn Voyageur introduced 1975 with low gear of 39x32. Later years the touring version was called Voyageur SP and featured gears as low as 33x38.
Schwinn always had real bikes for real riders. Cherry picking the worst of Craigslist is not an indicator of much. I would agree that much of current production is better than worst of the 80s. Current products do seem to me designed to solve problems that occurred in the late 70s and 80s that never needed to exist in the first place.
04-08-19, 09:21 AM
#58
Veteran, Pacifist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 13,322
Bikes: Bikes??? Thought this was social media?!?
Mentioned: 284 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3895 Post(s)
Liked 4,821 Times
in
2,226 Posts
I really love the ‘new’ 1X ‘technology’. No shifting with my left hand, saves energy - might make me faster.
edit: and that 10-48 cassette - looks so svelte.
edit: and that 10-48 cassette - looks so svelte.
__________________
Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
04-08-19, 09:22 AM
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Stillwater, OK
Posts: 7,827
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1872 Post(s)
Liked 692 Times
in
468 Posts
Yep, they all suck that badly. The pros using them have just been riding single speed all these decades because they don't shift but they still want to look cool with their "gears." 
__________________
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2019 Salsa Warbird
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2019 Salsa Warbird
04-08-19, 09:55 AM
#60
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 6,480
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1361 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 422 Times
in
282 Posts
Forgive me for being pedantic, but I'd still argue there's some modernish tech there, brifters or no brifters. Your FD setup would be a lot less tolerable with anything but that modern MTB triple FD.
That's a Shimano Light Action RD too, right, or a variant of such? If so, it has a bit of plastic (not much, but it does) and it also uses a spring to smooth out overshifts. Can work both in favor or against friction shifting.
-Kurt
That's a Shimano Light Action RD too, right, or a variant of such? If so, it has a bit of plastic (not much, but it does) and it also uses a spring to smooth out overshifts. Can work both in favor or against friction shifting.
-Kurt
Can't nearly escape a tiny bit of plast but I'm mostly referring to the bar end shifters and the robust derailleur main body, cage and pulley parts. Campagnolo used plastic way back when as a lower pivot bushing in their Nuovo Record.
Last edited by crank_addict; 04-08-19 at 10:07 AM.
04-08-19, 10:32 AM
#61
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,603
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10944 Post(s)
Liked 7,470 Times
in
4,179 Posts
OK, 1987 is your baseline. My baseline is 1892.
In 1987 I was riding on the best clincher tires I could find, Specialized Turbo/S 700x32. Stiff and slippery. They measured 26mm wide. Every ride the group scoffed at my truck tires. Tandems went touring on tires narrower than that. I remember 1987 as an absolute nadir. There were a lot of bikes sold in 1987 that made no sense at all.
Schwinn Tempo and Trek 560 were unambiguously low price race bikes. Schwinn Voyageur introduced 1975 with low gear of 39x32. Later years the touring version was called Voyageur SP and featured gears as low as 33x38.
Schwinn always had real bikes for real riders. Cherry picking the worst of Craigslist is not an indicator of much. I would agree that much of current production is better than worst of the 80s. Current products do seem to me designed to solve problems that occurred in the late 70s and 80s that never needed to exist in the first place.
In 1987 I was riding on the best clincher tires I could find, Specialized Turbo/S 700x32. Stiff and slippery. They measured 26mm wide. Every ride the group scoffed at my truck tires. Tandems went touring on tires narrower than that. I remember 1987 as an absolute nadir. There were a lot of bikes sold in 1987 that made no sense at all.
Schwinn Tempo and Trek 560 were unambiguously low price race bikes. Schwinn Voyageur introduced 1975 with low gear of 39x32. Later years the touring version was called Voyageur SP and featured gears as low as 33x38.
Schwinn always had real bikes for real riders. Cherry picking the worst of Craigslist is not an indicator of much. I would agree that much of current production is better than worst of the 80s. Current products do seem to me designed to solve problems that occurred in the late 70s and 80s that never needed to exist in the first place.
As for Schwinn always having real bikes for real riders...i am not sure what that means. Their offerings were pretty much in like with the competition year by year.
Agreed that there were a lot of bikes in the mid-late 80s that didnt make sense from a usability perspective.
04-08-19, 10:35 AM
#62
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Madison, WI USA
Posts: 6,145
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2358 Post(s)
Liked 1,745 Times
in
1,189 Posts
So any word from the OP about her/his actual shifters?......
If there were an Onion for bicycling, this week's edition would have an article about a cassette with so many cogs, the drive side spokes go straight down to the hub flange. Two years later, Shimano will introduce the real thing..
If there were an Onion for bicycling, this week's edition would have an article about a cassette with so many cogs, the drive side spokes go straight down to the hub flange. Two years later, Shimano will introduce the real thing..
04-08-19, 10:48 AM
#63
Senior Member
Lets not forget that Campgnolo was the king of racing in the 70's and anyone who was cool had to have it on their race bike. That would bring us to a 52 42 up front with a 14 to 26 or lower as the standard race bike combo of the era. If you wanted a Paramount P13 9 decked out in full Campagnolo, this was your option.
My PX 10 came standard with a 52 45 up front?
My PX 10 came standard with a 52 45 up front?
Last edited by Steve Whitlatch; 04-08-19 at 10:54 AM.
04-08-19, 11:20 AM
#64
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 3,681
Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1163 Post(s)
Liked 441 Times
in
314 Posts
I have a confession to make: I have never owned a bike that I ride regularly, that uses brifters. Perhaps that's no surprise to C&V folks, but most cyclists who ride road bikes made from the 90s until now might consider me a Luddite or retrogrouch for not having done so.
And now, having purchased two bikes recently that both have the same brifters (90s Shimano Ultegra), I don't know if I ever will have brifters.
On the Giordana, I was told by my mechanic friends that I should buy a new pair ($200) or source-out a 9-speed Sora set for cheaper on ebay or such. Neither the front or rear derailleur shifted, and new cables didn't fix the issue. I was told that this generation of Ultegra brifters had issues, and "it's like a clock-works in there."
On the Della Santa I just picked up yesterday, it's the same 90s Shimano Ultegra brifters (haven't checked the numbers yet, though) with the same issue: no shifts whatsoever, front or back.
I have test-ridden new bikes with brifters, but they felt just so... cheesy, fragile, weird. It just seems like a fundamentally flawed design concept to me. From the perspective of someone who believes in the UNIX philosophy (to borrow a computer-related metaphor) of "simple tools that do one thing, and do it well," brifters are complex, and do neither shifting nor braking particularly well.
I'm sure there must be better ones out there; maybe the high-end stuff is great. But in my admittedly limited experience with brifters so far, I just can't see myself owning and using these on any future bikes that I ride regularly.
And now, having purchased two bikes recently that both have the same brifters (90s Shimano Ultegra), I don't know if I ever will have brifters.
On the Giordana, I was told by my mechanic friends that I should buy a new pair ($200) or source-out a 9-speed Sora set for cheaper on ebay or such. Neither the front or rear derailleur shifted, and new cables didn't fix the issue. I was told that this generation of Ultegra brifters had issues, and "it's like a clock-works in there."
On the Della Santa I just picked up yesterday, it's the same 90s Shimano Ultegra brifters (haven't checked the numbers yet, though) with the same issue: no shifts whatsoever, front or back.
I have test-ridden new bikes with brifters, but they felt just so... cheesy, fragile, weird. It just seems like a fundamentally flawed design concept to me. From the perspective of someone who believes in the UNIX philosophy (to borrow a computer-related metaphor) of "simple tools that do one thing, and do it well," brifters are complex, and do neither shifting nor braking particularly well.
I'm sure there must be better ones out there; maybe the high-end stuff is great. But in my admittedly limited experience with brifters so far, I just can't see myself owning and using these on any future bikes that I ride regularly.
With that said, and the fact that I respect your pragmatism - I will say this about brifters (in my experience) - they are most definitely a game changer! I purchased a set of Dura Ace 7700/7703 (3x9) triple shifters new for $299 about 15 years ago. I set them up myself. They weren’t perfect when I first set them up. They seemed odd to me. The sideways wiggle of the brake lever was odd. He ease with which you could click through the cassette took some getting used to. The front derailleur shifting with the triple was odd and I lacked the insight at the time to understand the finer points of trim clicks and how to verify correct cable tesnsion and cable set up. But I do now. Shimano produces fantastic products as far as I’m concerned. The other STI bike I have ridden is a Dura Ace 7800 2x10 drivetrain that is also very nice - this I got used. The clicks on the front are a bit hard but the rear is like butter.
Your initial reaction about how “cheesy, fragile and weird” they felt is understandable I guess - cheesy because the shifters were used and not working properly, fragile since they were failing, and weird because you weren’t used to them. The memory of what shifting type you came up with is hard to break. It took me several years for brifter to start to feel natural. Consider yourself lucky that you learned road bike shifting the old way and have so many options. I would advise you to give brifters a second chance though. The Dura Ace 7700 series that I have are like little Swiss watches - very high quality. Unfortunately new old stock 7700 nine speed shifters and derailleurs have become scarce. It might be a better bet to go all in on one of your used frames so long as it has 130mm (modern road bike standard) and build it up with a modern gruppo of your choice. You could go Campy or Shimano at whatever price point you chose. Shimano 105 7000 series 11 speed or Ultegra 8000 series 11 speed parts are a bit of a bargain for how good they are from what I have heard. Pick either the Della Santa or the Giordana for the brifter bike and build the other with the old school shifting. Alternate both for a year, then report back in one year how you like brifters (just a suggestion). No reason to dig your heels in and disrespect a perfectly valid format -cheers!
04-08-19, 11:25 AM
#65
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 528
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 237 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 83 Times
in
64 Posts
Neither Campagnolo nor SRAM mechanisms are particularly complex and even in the case of Shimano, about a third of the parts you might see in a disassembled pic are brake lever parts. The Campagnolo design was essentially based around an index DT shifter barrel. It just adds the one way finger/thumb levers to move it instead of having a lever directly attached to it. SRAM has something like 4 moving parts not counting springs. I wouldn't be surprised if the ratcheting Campagnolo shifters were similarly simple inside.
04-08-19, 12:44 PM
#66
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 9,172
Bikes: Cheltenham-Pedersen racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.
Mentioned: 132 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1560 Post(s)
Liked 1,282 Times
in
853 Posts
One thing I think that really contributes to such wide-ranging opinion as to "proper" gearing and perhaps shifting methods is the huge variety of riding terrain that different regions offer up.
Here in the foothills for instance, one usually always uses their top gear periodically, on every ride, even if it's a 52x11.
And the best spacing of ratios, whether narrow or wide, corresponds not only to overall range, but to what rate that one must change their gear ratio as the road grade changes, perhaps abruptly. Too many shifts can quickly equate to too little fun when one needs a bigger change of ratio.
On yesterday's Fondo for instance, I was happy to have chosen to ride my recent Fuji cyclocross build with it's new compact double and 12-34t 9s cassette, since any 1-tooth gear changes would have been more annoying than useful. The quicker access to lower ratios spared my early-season legs, so one quick stop for a small ham sandwich and a Coke was all I needed to complete this tough 60+-mile ride comfortably.
Straying further from C&V topics, I used 2006-ish 9s Tiagra brifters (My Fuji Cross Comp is that old), a model of shifter which I have used for years of mostly winter-training miles, never had a problem with these.
As a side-note, I rolled on 33mm Mavic tubeless AllRoad tires and bothered not to carry any tube or even pump, knowing that a flat tire that the sealant couldn't handle would likely be exceedingly rare with 55psi in a high-volume gravel tire.
The roads were rough out toward the lake, and the soft tires seemed only to make my ride easier.
Here in the foothills for instance, one usually always uses their top gear periodically, on every ride, even if it's a 52x11.
And the best spacing of ratios, whether narrow or wide, corresponds not only to overall range, but to what rate that one must change their gear ratio as the road grade changes, perhaps abruptly. Too many shifts can quickly equate to too little fun when one needs a bigger change of ratio.
On yesterday's Fondo for instance, I was happy to have chosen to ride my recent Fuji cyclocross build with it's new compact double and 12-34t 9s cassette, since any 1-tooth gear changes would have been more annoying than useful. The quicker access to lower ratios spared my early-season legs, so one quick stop for a small ham sandwich and a Coke was all I needed to complete this tough 60+-mile ride comfortably.
Straying further from C&V topics, I used 2006-ish 9s Tiagra brifters (My Fuji Cross Comp is that old), a model of shifter which I have used for years of mostly winter-training miles, never had a problem with these.
As a side-note, I rolled on 33mm Mavic tubeless AllRoad tires and bothered not to carry any tube or even pump, knowing that a flat tire that the sealant couldn't handle would likely be exceedingly rare with 55psi in a high-volume gravel tire.
The roads were rough out toward the lake, and the soft tires seemed only to make my ride easier.
Last edited by dddd; 04-08-19 at 12:48 PM.
04-08-19, 12:46 PM
#67
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Posts: 5,636
Bikes: 1967 Paramount; 1982-ish Ron Cooper; 1978 Eisentraut "A"; two mid-1960s Cinelli Speciale Corsas; and others in various stages of non-rideability.
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1017 Post(s)
Liked 2,501 Times
in
1,045 Posts
Campy 10sp brifters don't suck - they are on most of my bikes. The shifting is good, the braking is good,and the ergonomics are good, at least for my hands. For me, the sweet spot for riding is old lugged steel with Campy 10sp triple, and that describes most of my rides..
Downtube shifting of any kind is not a good look for me any more. Being tall means a long reach and being fat means a not-easy long reach.
I have used Shimano 8 and 9 speed barcons - I like 'em, but I like Campy Ergo more.
After a few years of friction riding at Eroica, I can say (1) downtube shifters are not for me (see above), (2) Suntour power ratchet barcons work quite well, and (3) Rivendell barcons are excellent, with smooth, flawless shifting.
Downtube shifting of any kind is not a good look for me any more. Being tall means a long reach and being fat means a not-easy long reach.
I have used Shimano 8 and 9 speed barcons - I like 'em, but I like Campy Ergo more.
After a few years of friction riding at Eroica, I can say (1) downtube shifters are not for me (see above), (2) Suntour power ratchet barcons work quite well, and (3) Rivendell barcons are excellent, with smooth, flawless shifting.
__________________
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
04-08-19, 01:59 PM
#68
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 60
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I have a mix of bikes with down tube indexed and brifters. I like the brifters when setup correctly and working. My early 2000's Waterford came with Dura Ace 3x9 brifters which were excellent until one decided to give up shifting. Have taken it some what apart, did the lube fix, and had the local bike shop do the lube fix and no luck. Ended up taking the Ultegra 3x9 from my wifes bike after converting his to flat bar.
One day I'll dig into the Dura Ace brifter and fully take it apart.
One day I'll dig into the Dura Ace brifter and fully take it apart.
04-08-19, 05:32 PM
#69
Le savonnier
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,422
Bikes: I can count 'em on one hand
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 729 Post(s)
Liked 602 Times
in
274 Posts
On my current bikes (70s Italvega road bike and 80s Univega MTB) I have Suntour bar-ends and Suntour Powershift ratcheting thumbies, respectively. When I do my rando build this next fall/winter, I'll probably go with either downtube or bar-end shifters. I've spent most of my biking life using downtube shifters; that's what I'm most comfortable with, that's what comes second-nature for me.
Thanks everybody for all of the good replies/feedback thus far. Lots of good food for thought!
Thanks everybody for all of the good replies/feedback thus far. Lots of good food for thought!
04-08-19, 06:40 PM
#70
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Berea, KY
Posts: 1,135
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 360 Post(s)
Liked 323 Times
in
186 Posts
I didn't like them but then I did like them but then the rear shifter got stuck and I can't upshift out of my lowest rear gear and now I am not sure how I feel about them. Currently no amount of WD40 and tugging on the cable and trying to push the lever is making a difference. I decided to let my frustration level go back down before I try again.
__________________
Andy
Andy
04-08-19, 07:14 PM
#71
www.theheadbadge.com
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,500
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2414 Post(s)
Liked 4,374 Times
in
2,086 Posts
I didn't like them but then I did like them but then the rear shifter got stuck and I can't upshift out of my lowest rear gear and now I am not sure how I feel about them. Currently no amount of WD40 and tugging on the cable and trying to push the lever is making a difference. I decided to let my frustration level go back down before I try again.
-Kurt
__________________
04-08-19, 07:43 PM
#72
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,843
Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
612 Posts
Very happy with my 2009, 2010 Campy Centaur shifters. Climbing out of the saddle , shifting with barely a click. Downtube shifters only on my rain bike.
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
04-08-19, 08:04 PM
#73
Senior Member
__________________
My bikes: 1970`s Roberts - 1981 Miyata 912 - 1980`s Ocshner (Chrome) - 1987 Schwinn Circuit - 1987 Schwinn Prologue - 1992 Schwinn Crosspoint - 1999 Schwinn Circuit - 2014 Cannondale Super Six EVO
My bikes: 1970`s Roberts - 1981 Miyata 912 - 1980`s Ocshner (Chrome) - 1987 Schwinn Circuit - 1987 Schwinn Prologue - 1992 Schwinn Crosspoint - 1999 Schwinn Circuit - 2014 Cannondale Super Six EVO
04-08-19, 08:53 PM
#74
Sophomore Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,531
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1628 Post(s)
Liked 1,057 Times
in
631 Posts
For 8 speed brifters, I have had excellent luck with the $60 Microshift ones. The brake lever itself doesn't move at all, and the button for upshifting is located up high near the hood, which works well for upshifting both in the drops and when standing. The springs have plenty of tension, and they just seem a lot more solid than many of the Shimano 8 speed brifters I've used. Plus they're cheap, and the hoods are extremely oversized and comfortable.
04-08-19, 08:54 PM
#75
cowboy, steel horse, etc
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The hot spot.
Posts: 44,777
Bikes: everywhere
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12736 Post(s)
Liked 7,635 Times
in
4,050 Posts
