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Lacing 16/24h rims with 36h hubs, dangerous?

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Lacing 16/24h rims with 36h hubs, dangerous?

Old 04-10-19, 11:40 AM
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WillBradley1
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Lacing 16/24h rims with 36h hubs, dangerous?

Hi there,

Couldnt resist a bargain set of old Araya Aero tubular rims for 15 while searching for a pair of their clinchers, never ridden tubulars before so thought was worth getting. Browsed abit for a set of hubs in 16/24h and realised immediately I cant afford it anything decent right now. Im thinking of temporarily lacing them onto a pair of low end 36h Nakano hubs I already have, until I can justify buying a nice set of hubs.

Is it extremely dangerous to ride small flange 36h hubs with such few spokes? Okay for a temporary solution to try out the tubular rims for a while?

(also if anyone can recommend some 80's hubs in 16/24, so far can only really find dura ace )
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Old 04-10-19, 11:57 AM
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I'm thinking that the 16/24h rims almost can't be money well spent.
There are plenty of modern hubs with such drillings, perhaps not a matched set though. And vintage lightweight tubular rims should never be laced up to newer rear hubs with modern levels of dish (8s and newer).

My opinion (having done some very odd wheel builds over the past 30 years) is, unless an opportunistic purchase just falls into your lap as far as hubs goes, don't send any good money after bad and don't waste too much time on this.
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Old 04-10-19, 12:04 PM
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Agreed -- I almost bought a brand new Dura Ace front hub for $12 just to have it, but then realized it was a 12-hole hub. If you're eager to try tubulars, try searching ebay (or posting a WTB ad here) for 36-hole tubular rims. I don't think they'll be difficult to come by.
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Old 04-10-19, 12:07 PM
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Now you know why the rims were a bargain.
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Old 04-10-19, 12:36 PM
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@WillBradley1, This site may be of interest, good luck! https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/36-24.htm
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Old 04-10-19, 12:55 PM
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You got an amazing deal. I rode a set of ADX-1 for years in 24/20. Was around 185# back then. At first they were dedicated time trial wheels, soon realized these did not have a lot of limitations. Rode them for everything, big miles. When my supply of cheap tubulars ran out the wheels were given to a junior racer who promptly won three races in a row. His luck ran out when an official race vehicle hit him. Thank you USAC.

These are preposterously strong rims. Cannot recommend the 16 unless you are very light. If you are light lace it into a 32-hole hub. One cross not radial. Even if you are very conservative (or heavy) the 24 will work for a front. Two cross. If you are 185# or less go ahead and use for a rear.

dddd is very correct these will not build into a 130mm modern hub. The stresses of highly dished wheels were not even a thought when these came out in 1977.

24 hole hubs are not that scarce. Used by time trialists forever. My old mentor Othon Ochsner used 24 spoked wheels for his Swiss Pursuit Championship in 1919. I have a 24 high flange Normandy front from the 1950s (sorry, laced into a wheel). You have a base in Nottingham. The TT crowd there should have plenty of 24 hubs.

Build these tight and even. With only 24 spokes every spoke has to be carrying load.
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Old 04-10-19, 01:00 PM
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Cheers guys.

Yeah agreed Im not going to chase this at all. Im just gonna lace them onto 36h, see how they feel. If there total jelly then they'll will just sit around until I happen to see the right buy for hubs.

Ive been drawing up different lacing patterns... have managed to get a pattern for both that works on the 36h hubs. My fear is that the force on metal between the closely spaced 36 spoke holes would shear ?

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Old 04-10-19, 01:08 PM
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The Damon Rinard/Sheldon method mentioned by cannonride15 is sure interesting. The resulting wheel is just not as strong as one laced with matching parts. The only wheelbuilder I knew who could pull that trick off with some measure of success was Ron Boi. He could put 200# riders on 16 rear, 12 front and it worked. That you should accomplish anything similar first time out by sheer luck is not likely.
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Old 04-10-19, 01:12 PM
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Yeah, unless the hubshell were designed for such elevated (roughly doubled) level of cyclic loading on each spoke, the 36h flange might not be durable in use.

It would be worse if each pair of same-side spokes don't cross and engage adjacent holes at a near-tangent to the flange, that is one way that the stress level is partially mitigated.
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Old 04-10-19, 01:13 PM
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Lots of hubs sheer when laced radial. What happens with spokes at odd angles? Who knows? Ron did a lot of 24 and 28 hubs to 36 rims back before parts were easy to get. Steel flange hubs.
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