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Crank retightening.. and retightening

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Crank retightening.. and retightening

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Old 04-15-19, 06:19 AM
  #51  
63rickert
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Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
Also, from the website titled "Sheldon Brown": "Note: Old Ofmega/Avocet spindles were quite a bit skinnier/longer even than ISO. There are no modern bottom brackets that work with old Ofmega/Avocet cranks." And yet it worked for years on a Campy spindle.
I am going to assume that Sheldon saw a crank and spindle just as described. Ofmega and American marketed version Avocet were plain odd. Broke in lots of ways, generated lots of fitting problems. Last gasp of Magistroni. Some things that are forty years old may be let go.
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Old 04-15-19, 07:02 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
And this bike is supposedly 1980 vintage. I can look at the cranks for date markings (Avocet?)
I don't know of any date-code markings on the Avocet/Ofmega cranks. The fact that it worked fine on a Campagnolo bottom bracket suggests it is one of the later, Campagnolo copy models.
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Old 04-15-19, 10:53 AM
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Interloc Racing Design / IRD

Is IRD.
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Old 04-15-19, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jimmuller View Post
I have no idea what track cranks did or do. As for Sheldon weighing in, in my first post on the subject in this thread I said it was something Sheldon has claimed. So yeah, he did!

The torque direction would certain be true, no question. That it induces micro-movement in the joints makes sense. Whether it really hurts them in practice, that's a different question.

I sometimes stand on the pedals to see over traffic or shrubbery when commuting, more so in the old days than on my current commute. I never thought about the direction until two thing happened. I started hearing little squeaks when doing so. I was told, don't recall by whom, that those crank arms were ruined, could never be fixed. Fortuitously I happened on the Sheldon article shortly after that and put two and two together, started standing in only one direction. The squeaking stopped and I'm still using those crank arms.

To this thread's original point, I did try tightening the bolts but it didn't stop the squeaking. I do not keep re-tightening them on any of my cranks. I was taught, either by book or Sheldon or word of mouth, to tighten to spec (I was told 22 ft-lbs), ride for 30 miles re-torque, then leave them alone. That practice has worked well for me.
Sorry Jim, my bad, see it now on review. That being said, I have never encountered much of this at all and IME if you just snug the bolt down after the fact, it all settles down and is fine in the long run. And again, I probably don,t ride hard enough for this to ever be a concern but in years gone by I logged plenty of miles without incident, YMMV.
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Old 04-15-19, 02:19 PM
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OK, what do you think of using this? TOKEN Never heard of the brand, but from appearances it might even take the same installation tool as the Velo Orange BB. Spindle length is at least close but I'll check my notes on that. If do-able, might be an affordable way out and I can presumably keep an eye out for a decent pair of Campy crank arms (looking on eBay, don't they all have the dreaded "pedal rub" ?)

Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
I don't know of any date-code markings on the Avocet/Ofmega cranks. The fact that it worked fine on a Campagnolo bottom bracket suggests it is one of the later, Campagnolo copy models.
+1. Well, that's what I'm hoping!

Originally Posted by repechage View Post
I looked that up earlier, thanks. Almost tempted to see if I could get the Defiant track crank with a road chainring, say bye-bye to the front derailleur and make the bike a "1x". Looks to me that both IRD and VO offer cranksets but with small-tooth-count rings. I"m doing a lot of flat-land riding.
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Old 04-15-19, 02:39 PM
  #56  
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It seems that the way to manufacture a good cartridge bearing bottom bracket has become common knowledge, so these unknown copiers seem to be making good products at low price. Give a shot with that TOKEN unit. Never heard of it, but it's worth a try, since replacing these is so much quicker than the old kind.
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Old 04-16-19, 06:20 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
It seems that the way to manufacture a good cartridge bearing bottom bracket has become common knowledge, so these unknown copiers seem to be making good products at low price. Give a shot with that TOKEN unit. Never heard of it, but it's worth a try, since replacing these is so much quicker than the old kind.
Probably going to. If I find my receipt from VO on the BB I have, or they e-mail me back, so I know the spindle length of what I have so I know how many mm this is different (I suspect 2mm), ready to go and have this in two days.

Alas, the rest of my bikes are still in pieces, so 'll likely do the unthinkable and ride on the current arrangement a few more times and hope I do not do irreparable damage (GOTTA ride).

I see there's also a genuine Campy BB at Amazon (and I'm sure elsewhere), 115mm and Italian, but $$$ by comparison and there's discussion about early vs. later Campy tapers being different, so...

On the other hand, I did a search for Token's website to see what is actually made, found this page suggesting 115mm is for TRIPLES? Comments on others' choice of spindle length?

EDIT: Yikes! Found my VO receipt, the one in there is 118mm, somehow I suspect 111mm is too short, kinda surprised there would be that much range of sizes, the one I took out is 115mm. Somehow thinking I need a longer BB, where to look?

3RD EDIT: I decided to do some measuring. Point of closest approach, crank arm to chainstay: 14mm right, 12-13mm left. For comparison I checked my wife's Windsor (Campy cranks): about 8-9mm both right and left. Perhaps these 115mm to 118mm spindles are longer than needed?

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Old 04-16-19, 11:57 AM
  #58  
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I've been thinking about this thread, as I had a similar situation once.

A word of caution -

As you continue to crank down on the bolt, be careful you are not driving the edge of the chainwheel into the side of the chain stay. You can get into a situation where the chainwheel rubs on the stay. Even if it doesn't happen in the static condition, it can still happen when the frame flexes under load (in a turn).

Visual inspection of the chain stay will tell the tale. If the paint is scraped or missing, you have a problem you need to deal with.
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Old 04-16-19, 01:14 PM
  #59  
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FWIW Origin 8 sells an ISO cartridge BB in 115 for like $35. (it wouldn't surprise me if all the Taiwan sourced cartridge bottom brackets are made in the same factory)

I think there's a reasonably good chance it will work with your Avocet crankset. Going from JIS to ISO will bring in your crankarms about 4-5mm on each side, depending on who you ask. That should get you fairly close to ideal for fit on the spindle/crank interface. Should be reasonable for chainstay clearance also.

Did you measure you chainline as it stands now? It's a little tricky to do but it would be helpful. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainline.html
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Old 04-16-19, 02:06 PM
  #60  
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(A) I was a good boy today; went for a ride and just got back and did NOT reach for a 14mm wrench to check the crank arms!

(B) I waited a while today to see if there were new posts, then ordered the Token BB, and two BB spacers from VO; both should be here in 48 hours.

Originally Posted by Bad Lag View Post
A word of caution - As you continue to crank down on the bolt, be careful you are not driving the edge of the chainwheel into the side of the chain stay. You can get into a situation where the chainwheel rubs on the stay. Even if it doesn't happen in the static condition, it can still happen when the frame flexes under load (in a turn). Visual inspection of the chain stay will tell the tale. If the paint is scraped or missing, you have a problem you need to deal with.
Yeah, I eyeballed that and I still have "plenty" of clearance, but will watch that; "interference" will occur there before the tip of the crank arm in my application.

Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
FWIW Origin 8 sells an ISO cartridge BB in 115 for like $35. (it wouldn't surprise me if all the Taiwan sourced cartridge bottom brackets are made in the same factory) I think there's a reasonably good chance it will work with your Avocet crankset. Going from JIS to ISO will bring in your crankarms about 4-5mm on each side, depending on who you ask. That should get you fairly close to ideal for fit on the spindle/crank interface. Should be reasonable for chainstay clearance also.
Alas, my other order already shipped. Let's hope I do not need to order a third BB.

Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
Did you measure you chainline as it stands now? It's a little tricky to do but it would be helpful. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainline.html
Just by eyeball when I installed the VO BB, trying to get the center (3rd) sprocket in the plane between the two chainrings... it's close. Again, I bought spacers and can either try headache-inducing math beforehand or test-install and remove it if needed to add/remove spacers. OTOH, unless I break out and ride somewhere besides this rails-to-trails near my house, it might not matter... as usual, just rode and only used 4th/inner and 4th/outer for the whole ride, it's pretty flat.
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