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Clinchers, Michelin in particular

Old 04-26-19, 01:52 PM
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Clinchers, Michelin in particular


$%^&*&)(!!! When we were kids we used the back ends of forks and spoons, screwdrivers if we didn't have cutlery handy, anything, to unmount tires to fix flats. Yeah I do know we only had 35-60 psi or so to deal with. But this is the second set of wheels that I am truly struggling to open up. I destroyed a set of pretty anodized aluminum tire "irons" last night. They bent back and forth like solder wire before I gave up on them (there's some irony for you). Now I'm having a difficult time getting the second lever (plastic trek) under the bead. I will get it eventually, as I put the tires on these wheels 2 years ago, but dang, no more Michelins for me. Too hard, and too worried I'm going to damage something. I ride mostly tubulars, thank you very much, but I have these few sets of sweet wheels that happen to be clinchers. Hey maybe that why the (used) michelins were dirt cheap. I've never struggled with Contis to this degree! OK, ranting (whining, whatever) over. Ready to try again.
Cheers, Eric

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Old 04-26-19, 02:07 PM
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I've had mounting issues with some Gatorskins and Panaracer Paselas. I used Michelin Krylion for a couple of years and dont remember having much trouble mounting or dismounting them. I just didn't like the way they ride. Have you tried the Tire Jack by Koolstop? I got one for Christmas, and it works great for stubborn clincher mounting. I still use plastic levers for dismounting. I like the thicker ones like Pedro's or the shiny slick plastic Park ones are good too. I've broken several other plastic ones. Never used metal "irons".


Pretty simple, works great. Its a little big to carry in a jersey pocket but I'm tempted.

Here's the Tire Bead Jack on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Tir...54439296&psc=1

Last edited by Slightspeed; 04-26-19 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 04-26-19, 02:25 PM
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+1 Tire Jack. It's big, klunky and perfect.
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Old 04-26-19, 02:28 PM
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It does seem like there's more variation than there used to be. Last combo I ran into that just didn't work was Panaracer Gravel Kings on A23 rims. They mounted fine on my H+ Archetypes, so that's where they will live.

Never tried any recent Michelin tires. I did use some Michelin tubes a couple years back, which apparently are made from some kind of rubber that can't be patched. That alone has soured me on the brand.

One tip, if you don't already know it, is to go around the tire all the way and shift both beads to the center of the rim. Obviously let all the air out first. This will usually get you some extra slack for dismounting.

I've never used anything but my hands to mount a tire. It's an ex-mechanic ego thing. One had to be able do put on a tire with no tools, even if it gave you bloody hands, otherwise your coworkers will laugh at you. Still, every once in a blue moon there'd be that tire. Therefore I got one of those koolstop things a while back, just in case. Haven't tried it yet.
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Old 04-26-19, 02:38 PM
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All I know is Conti 4000 25s + Mavic Open Pro rims = Easy Peasy Lemon Squeezy. I have pretty much given up on other combinations.
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Old 04-26-19, 02:38 PM
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No issues with Michelin Pros and Mavic SUP or Open Pro.
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Old 04-26-19, 03:00 PM
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Also no problems with Michelin PRO4 Endurance on Mavic and HED rims. Great tires, too. fast rolling, never any flats, durable.
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Old 04-26-19, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
I've never used anything but my hands to mount a tire. It's an ex-mechanic ego thing. One had to be able do put on a tire with no tools, even if it gave you bloody hands, otherwise your coworkers will laugh at you. Still, every once in a blue moon there'd be that tire. Therefore I got one of those koolstop things a while back, just in case. Haven't tried it yet.
I have the same bike shop pride with not using levers, although certain tire rim combos just need it, but you are more likely to pinch the tube using a lever.

My secret for not needing levers is a pair of Radnor polyurethane gloves. Tight-fitting with the polyurethane coating on the palms and fingers make them ideal for changing tough tires. They are very grippy and protect your skin from the rubbing.

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Old 04-26-19, 03:54 PM
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Never had to use ANY tools to install or remove Michelins on Mavic rims.

Contis, on the other hand... I broke a couple of tire levers trying to remove a gatorskin in the middle of a LOOOONG ride and had to call for a ride home. I don't use Contis any more.
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Old 04-26-19, 06:05 PM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by Last ride 76 View Post
$%^&*&)(!!! When we were kids we used the back ends of forks and spoons, screwdrivers if we didn't have cutlery handy, anything, to unmount tires to fix flats. Yeah I do know we only had 35-60 psi or so to deal with. But this is the second set of wheels that I am truly struggling to open up. I destroyed a set of pretty anodized aluminum tire "irons" last night. They bent back and forth like solder wire before I gave up on them (there's some irony for you). Now I'm having a difficult time getting the second lever (plastic trek) under the bead. I will get it eventually, as I put the tires on these wheels 2 years ago, but dang, no more Michelins for me. Too hard, and too worried I'm going to damage something. I ride mostly tubulars, thank you very much, but I have these few sets of sweet wheels that happen to be clinchers. Hey maybe that why the (used) michelins were dirt cheap. I've never struggled with Contis to this degree! OK, ranting (whining, whatever) over. Ready to try again.
Cheers, Eric
What rims and rim tape are you using?
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Old 04-26-19, 06:24 PM
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Have you tried the Tire Jack by Koolstop?
+1 Tire Jack. It's big, klunky and perfect.
OP says he's having trouble removing the tires, not mounting them.

OP, check ebay for pedro's and park tool tire levers. Get three or more of them in case you break one.

Last edited by SurferRosa; 04-26-19 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 04-26-19, 06:30 PM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
It does seem like there's more variation than there used to be. Last combo I ran into that just didn't work was Panaracer Gravel Kings on A23 rims.
I have this combination in 650B on my Raleigh Professional. What rim tape were you using? Tubeless-compatible tire, tubeless-compatible rim - even with tubes, the thinness of tubeless-compatible rim tape makes a difference in ease of mounting!
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Old 04-26-19, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
What rims and rim tape are you using?
Velox - Fonde De Jante

Rims that were really hard - Campy hard anodized semi-aero with machined sides...
Next to impossible, I really thought I might damage something (and I don't mean the levers)... Campy Shamal 16 spoke.

What ended up working, and actually was not too hard once I figured out how to do it, (maybe this is only new to me...) was to place 2 levers under the bead at the same time about 4 inches apart and pry them up evenly together. I have always done one first, getting a couple of inches of bead outside the rim, and then putting the next one under the bead, etc.
Anyone (maybe everyone ha,ha) else ever do it this way?
Getting them back on was nowhere near as hard...
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Old 04-26-19, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
OP says he's having trouble removing the tires, not mounting them.

OP, check ebay for pedro's and park tool tire levers. Get three or more of them in case you break one.
Yes totally correct. On is not the problem here. Thx, I will check out Pedro's and Park levers. The thickness/bluntness of the ends of the plastic (nylon?) Trek levers may be part of the problem.
Thanks all, Tomorrow I ride!
Eric
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Old 04-26-19, 07:34 PM
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I have a set of Vittoria Rubino Pro with graphene that were almost impossible to mount. I destroyed 3 steel core tire levers and put some scratches on the rims in the process. I actually gave up on the second install and dismounted the first one that I had done. I sure did not want to be on the road with a flat tire and not be able to fix it without a major struggle. I was trying to mount them on a pair of cyclocross wheels. Just out of curiosity I then mounted one of them on a slimmer road wheel and it was not nearly as challenging. Was it the wider wheels of did I stretch the tire with the first mounting.? I still have not put any miles on the tires.
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Old 04-26-19, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
Also no problems with Michelin PRO4 Endurance on Mavic and HED rims. Great tires, too. fast rolling, never any flats, durable.
+1 on the Pro4 tires. Easy on, easy off.

As for tire levers, my go-to remains the VAR bead jack type lever. Finally managed to break one after using it for about 35 years, had to spring for a new one.

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Old 04-26-19, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Last ride 76 View Post
Velox - Fonde De Jante

Rims that were really hard - Campy hard anodized semi-aero with machined sides...
Next to impossible, I really thought I might damage something (and I don't mean the levers)... Campy Shamal 16 spoke.

What ended up working, and actually was not too hard once I figured out how to do it, (maybe this is only new to me...) was to place 2 levers under the bead at the same time about 4 inches apart and pry them up evenly together. I have always done one first, getting a couple of inches of bead outside the rim, and then putting the next one under the bead, etc.
Anyone (maybe everyone ha,ha) else ever do it this way?
Getting them back on was nowhere near as hard...
Aha! Velox is a fine product, but I think you're making life harder than it needs to be in this case. Some thinner rim tape like Tesa or Stan's or Pacenti might help get tires on and off easier in the future. I personally don't like to hit the road with a tire/rim combo I can't install/remove by hand.
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Old 04-26-19, 10:55 PM
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I had problems with Michelins in the past. I now run Kenda skinwalls--27x1 1/4 on hookless RIGIDA alloy rims on my '84 Pug (bought it new). No problems whatsoever with either mounting or dismounting. Just sayin....
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Old 04-27-19, 12:47 AM
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...the most bomb proof tyre levers for removal I have here are plain old cheap steel ones. They come to you a little fat on the prying ends, so they work better if you reshape and thin the pry scoop end on a grinder. Not a knife edge, but a lot thinner than they come from the factory.

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Old 04-27-19, 02:23 AM
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I've got a pair of Michelin Lithions on my Festina Peugeot, and they are the hardest tyres to remove and replace I've ever had. I ended up buying a set of Schwalbe tyre levers on a friend's recommendations, and they were well worth the money.
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Old 04-27-19, 08:06 AM
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I've had tire issues before with Ambrosio Elite rims. I find even with those rims if I use a tad of dish soap at the bead I can pull any tire off without tools. The one tire that may be the exception is Sepcialized Turbo. That tire rim combo kick my ads.
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Old 04-27-19, 08:15 AM
  #22  
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Another nod here for the Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires. No issues mounting them on Shimano rims. Rim/tire combos can be frustrating, I know. I recently tried installing a pair of Panaracer EVO Competition SX on some Ambrosio Elite Extras and it was a terrible chore - broke a favorite tire lever and punctured two tubes. I put the original wire bead Michelins back on those wheels, and moved the Panaracers to another bike.

By far the worst I ever dealt with was a set of 650A wheels from Harris - Sun CR18's. They were a nightmare! Tire brand didn't matter at all. Broken tools, bloody fingers...
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Old 04-27-19, 11:00 AM
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Given that some tires are difficult to mount/unmount, the picture seems to show that you haven't unseated the bead from the rim first (though this could be an optical illusion). If the bead remains seated then it will be much harder to remove the tire. I always go all the way around the tire making sure the entire bead on the side I'm trying to remove is unseated and pushed towards the center of the rim before getting out the tire levers. For really difficult tires it can sometimes help to unseat both sides first.
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