Magos

Hello,

I have a Corsa Extra in Telekom livery. SLX with racenumber hanger. Also riders name: Carlo Janssens.

Left: S
Right: C4484

I think custom size frame form 90/91? There's no size indication on the left.

Can't post any pictures because don't have ten posts yet.

Regards,

Mark

Saw Crack

Hi Jacek

Wondering if you can tell me anything about this. Not the best photo, sorry.

Cheers

Michael

CyclesMakaron

S C4484 - built at the beginning of 1991; if you can check the paper sticker on the steering tube you will find there some interesting information (including the size of the frame); lack of X and digit among the markings occurred in "'serial" frames, among "custom"/"profi" frames very often. If you will be able to definitely add photos.
?8TTB D5583 - built in early 1993 Century TSX.

Magos

Thank you, ill have a look in the near future. I'm lowering my amount of bikes the next months. Have more of less 20 Merckx bikes/frames atm (and some other stuff).

Btw how do you know the pictures of the bb of the tsx is Century Geo? What's the difference with century en race Geo? Century allways flat Crown forks (if the are originel)? I was told Corsa 01 has same geo as Century?

Thanks alot.

Mark

CyclesMakaron

Wow! In your spare time, you can show the markings of those 20 frames... it's a big challenge
TTB = TSX century geo...
century geo is "more comfortable" for longer distances than the "aggressive" earlier road racing geo.
The EM Century model is not the same as the century geo - the model was built between 1988-1994 (Reynolds 653 tubes, then Columbus TSX), geo was used in models: Century, Corsa Extra Max, Mx Leader, Corsa 01, Strada OS, Arcobaleno, Corsa Extra SLX, titanium and aluminum frames (from ~1995 it was the only geo in EMC).
In Century model both versions of fork crown were used (earlier and more often: flat).

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Magos

Ok thanks alot for this info, I knew TT was for TSX. Didn't knew the B was for Century geo. XB is then for SLX with century geo? Century geo also on Corsa and Strada?

Are all the Century model frame's Century geo? Didn't knew that there we're non Century model frames with Century geo. I was under de illusion all were normal race or custom made :-) don't own a frame marked with B I think. I don't own a Century model neither, the ones I saw were always flat crown fork with "modern" paintjob end 80 begin 90. For me flat crown fork is begin 80 and earlier. Or pista :-)

To be honest I rode this week on my 56cc Corsa 01 and my 55cc Corsa Extra, and indeed huge difference. Was kinda surprised, only one size up. Start to messure and indeed the headtube of the 56 Corsa 01 was a bit longer then on another 56cc normal Corsa Extra frame I have, and also toptube a bit short I think (?). Not sure any more. Felt kinda lazy the Corsa 01, but only very short ride. Longer rides this would have been great I think. The Corsa Extra is a "harder" ride, the Corsa 01 more "soft" easy ride. I'm located I Belgium, Corsa 01 isn't that respected over here amoungt collectors and retro cycling people, often the more recent paintjob also. But it isn't a bad ride In my opinion, it's much more afordable then an MXL.

Thanks for the great info, still learning :-)

I'll post some more, can't post any pictures yet (need 10 posts :-))

I'm interested what's your favorite Merckx type(s) and for what reason? If you have any pictures that would also be great.

CyclesMakaron

Only the combinations TTB and XB stand for century geo (for TSX and SLX respectively). If you see on the left ("technical") side a lone B mark, it is only the code of the EMC employee. Professional, 3-Athlete, Corsa, Pro SLX, Pro 753, Corsa Extra marked exclusively with X, Strada - all have road racing geo (there are still Chrono and Criterium models with "their" geo).
I like all Merckx models The coolest are the strangest ones: Aero, Chrono, Criterium, Century 653, Corsa Thron, Titane EM, Chrono WX, Alu Carbon... and the unique versions, that is..: "signature, early CE Max, early Pro 753, first versions of the Corsa and Strada... ...and inventions: Donnay by Merckx Carbon Monocoque and EM Titanal. Of course Pista and Cyclocross Well..

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brianroo

Got this bike a few years back. Never found another frame with similar coloured livery, anyone got any ideas on dating it? I may recall having seen the same livery but with the rounded, more modern Eddy Merckx typeface on the downtube. Serial: Left D 6M, Right B 1638

Forum won't allow me to post pictures so you can find them here:
imgur.com/a/Glu34Yc

CyclesMakaron

D6M B1638 - frame built in late 1988, Strada ver.1 in Hitachi team colours.

brianroo

Thanks Makaron!
She needs some tlc, a nice self isolation project.

Magos

Corsa Extra in team La William livery with blue decals instead of the red on the team bikes. Any idea why different?

Left
L
5TT

Right
C
0269

So 55cc TSX frame. Any idea on the exact date?

Can't post pictures or link to pictures yet, new member.

Thank alot,

Mark

CyclesMakaron

C0269 was built in the spring of 1990. The colour of the inscription is ok, in this version the frame is shown in the EM 1989 catalogue. Red inscriptions are shown only in pre-season "promotional pictures" of the team - was it a detail that easily distinguishes "team bikes" from ordinary frames? Perhaps... The contract with team La William for the 1989 season was signed late, I didn't see any photos of these bikes from the races.

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mentalite

What a wonderful service you are providing, Jacek. Thank you!

I think I may have my Corsa Extra figured out as a 1989/1990 both by your number system and the 1990 catalog page showing the color scheme, but the bike wasn't assembled until 1998 by a shop in Sweden. I have the build sheet and the shop's catalog for that year. TSX tubing on a Corsa Extra which I think I have seen before.

Quite a shame that a Merckx would have hung on a hook for eight years before being sold!

You'll notice that I badly need touch up colors for the pearl white and blue/purple if anyone knows a source for a good color match.

CyclesMakaron

Amazing story, it's a big art not to immediately sell the 1988 Corsa Extra TSX steel frame (from the 1st produced TSX series !) in the beautiful painting Weinmann 90, wait 10 years and sell it only when few people want to buy something other than Alu, Ti and Carbon... Especially since Faglum Brothers had a very close relationship with EMC, they sold Merckx bikes under the Crescent brand... Probably the frame was lying forgotten in some warehouse, maybe it came back to EMC in settlement and was sent where there was still a chance to sell it (although then it would probably be painted in some GAN or Vlaanderen). In summer 1988 EMC stopped production (for 6 weeks) and sent people on holiday... your frame was built just before or just after this stoppage - who knows what happened to it
Unfortunately, EMC's paint shades are a mystery to which I am helpless, just like the rest of the world - scanning remains (no guarantee of success)

mentalite

Good information. Thanks! I didn't realize that this would be the first generation of TSX Corsa Extras. Hopefully it was built just after vacation when everyone was well rested.

Magos

Thank you for this info. To be honest I didn't see race pictures of La William either. Only the promo pictures. But I do remember someone having a Corsa La William with the red decals and older Eddy Merckx font used. Anyway I like mine with the blue decals, you don't see a La William every day :-)

styggno1

Dear CyclesMakaron - thanks for the fantastic job you are doing in helping people on this topic!

Here is a bike that might be a little different than the usual. I know quite a bit about it but it would be nice to hear your take on it too.

I bought this as a frame a long time ago and it was sold as an ex John Talen bike. That was not why I bought it though - I just wanted a cyclocross bike. I have always liked Merckx bikes and I have got a few. Why not a CX too? ;-)

Here is what Wikipedia says about John Talen:
"John Talen (born 18 January 1965) is a former road racing cyclist from the Netherlands, who was a professional from 1987 to 2000. As an amateur he won the world title in the 100 km team time trial, alongside Rob Harmeling, Tom Cordes and Gerrit de Vries, and finished second in the individual road race. His biggest individual success as a pro was winning Dwars door Vlaanderen (1988) and the Scheldeprijs (1990). Talen rode in three editions of the Tour de France."

He probably used this frame for winter training as many do/did in that part of Europe (Eddy too in his day).

The serial number puts it late 1986 or early 1987 I presume? I believe the paint to be original. "P" on the frame but "D" och the fork - same serial though. And then the serial, the "M95" and "BEM" and "cross" on the fork tape bit.

The cable stops on the top tube were broke when I bought the frame and I have silver soldered new ones in place. Built wheels a long time ago and I do have Mafac cantis and Campagnolo bar end shifters on the shelf. I have got all parts - but time has been spent on other bikes. This one will get done eventually.



These are cable housing stops for the traditional Campagnolo bar end shifters housing used in cyclocross - not guides for ergopower cables as on many modern frames.









Eddy inspecting what I am doing in the work shop...



Edit and PS - just noticed an extra security measure compared to other Merckx BB-shells of the same kind. A plate has been brazed in place to secure the cable not moving out of its groove.

Magos

Hi

I have another one. All white Merckx with Columbus decal and black Eddy Merckx decals old font. Is marked C on the right, so I guess Corsa Extra, matches the Columbus SL decal too. Could this be old Kelme livery?

Right:
5 C
I

Left:
Z
8060

Thanks alot,


Mark

CyclesMakaron

CX, I wish I had that frame...
John Talen signed his first professional contract with Panasonic (the best team in the world at the time) in autumn 1986 after winning 2 medals at the World Championship in Colorado Springs. He was great on the road, especially in time trial... But to make sure he doesn't get bored in autumn and winter he got a great cx bike - this is the bike... The cool thing is that it was built from the beginning to the cross; like all unusual EMC frames it has the markings stamped on the steering tube (like the early Professional, Criterium and R753). The markings on the card should mean it: BEM - painting pattern (identically painted Pistas of 1985 has a mark... BEM - now we all know that it means Blue EM in 1985 and 1986 ) ; M95 - this is where the pattern of stickers used was usually placed - I have not seen such a code before. Unusual element in the frame is brake bridge, this pattern was used only in Pro, Corsa Extra and Criterium models (from the beginning of 1986 to mid 1987), I haven't seen it in any frame made of Columbus SL/SP or R531 (except Pista). Nice piece of story - if you don't need it you can easily find me ...such "security plates" you can find on the frame from that period - I have a serious suspicion that they were installed mainly in "profiframe"...
Z8060 - this is Corsa from 1986, team Kelme used "white camo" only in 1984 season (at that time there was no Corsa model yet). This should be ver.1 with "lugs with cut-outs" - a rather rare thing. Photos...as fast and as much as possible

butterchicken

Hello guys,
talking about the CX merckx i finally found what i was looking for: someone (styggno) with the same merckx i have here for quite some time.
Got this frame in a very bad condition with several bad paintjobs on it but after some scratching it turned out to be a merckx with cantis.
Now thinking of getting it into new life with a new paint that restores the old look, i had to find out what it was looking in first place.
Whats a little different to yours styggno is the fact that the cable stops on the top tube are missing. You said yours were broken? Were they missing or just broken?
Looking at the serial number it seems like its completely different to yours? Any idea on this?

Btw can't really tell what the original color was. Scratching through the layers starting at some spraycan mettalic blue to white to yellow to some red. But the red is only at some certain parts.

Left side
M

Right side
Z
8978
EB

(Cant upload any pictures - dont know why :/)

Cheers

styggno1

Hi,

You will need 10 posts to be able to add pictures.

I meant broken - as in they were there but damaged (the loops were slotted and because of that too weakened)

I have sort of got the hang of decoding EM BB-shells a bit - but CyclesMakaron is the authority here and I suggest waiting for his answers on the rest.

Are there any information on the fork steerer tube?

CyclesMakaron

Well, it's also 1986, just over a month before the frame for John Talen - if it was built for the Panasonic team (and for the 1987 season I have the frame marking confirmed only for them)... Welcome on board the frame for Erik Breukink (in the Panasonic team in 1986 and 1987 using EMC bikes)...

butterchicken

Hey thanks for the quick response. Sounds like i need to get a little more active before sharing my frame in here

On the fork tube it says the same like on the bb: Z8978 but with a D at the end.

Anyway what tubing is your frame? Can't read it on the sticker on your photo.

Does this mean the EB on the bottombracket stands for Erik Breunik? Anyway the paintjob is really confusing because of the 3 (original?) layers and there is no sign of decals or something. Only the eddy merckx brandings (dont know the right term) on the naked frame. I wish i could figure out what it was looking like when it was build.

styggno1

Mine also has a "D" on the fork tube:



This type of Columbus tubing sticker (mine and on the frame below) does not say if it is Columbus SL or SP. Depending on size of frame and builder - SP was used for larger frames. As my frame is 60 cm c/c one can expect it to be SP.

Here is the only other picture I have found of a EM CX frame of this era (80ies). It has a straight tube rear brake bridge. Look at my frame above and tell us what kind yours have - please?

butterchicken

Mine is only 56 cm c/c so it's more likely so be a SL?
What kind of sticker is this? Im just asking because of the restauration.

The brake bridge is exactly the same like yours. Almost everything looks identical except for the top tube. Maybe someone removed the cable stops? But It's looks almost too clean underneath the paint for the removal theory.
Fitting to the cleaness of the frame itself it has no mounting for shifters or the front derrailleur, only the weird little ones on the steering tube.
Only some more posts and i can show you pictures which makes everything easier (especially for my bad english )