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-   -   Decoding of Eddy Merckx frames (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1171913-decoding-eddy-merckx-frames.html)

CyclesMakaron 05-01-19 03:17 PM

Decoding of Eddy Merckx frames
 
"...someone finally has to do it..."

Manufacturer's marks are placed on the bottom of the BB cover.

- left side: code of EM Cycles employee responsible for preparing the frame before chroming / painting - always one capital letter:
A - prototypes --- ~ B3000
B - 1 ser ~900 --- ~ E6500 + ~ B2500 --- ?
D - ~ A4000 --- ~ F6000
F - ~ E0200 --- ~ E7500 + ~ A9000 --- ~ B5000
G - prototypes --- ~ E6100
H - ~ B1300 --- ~ G5500
J - ~ A7500 --- ~ A9000
K - ~ F 1300
L - ~ Z 5000 --- ~ D 9999
M - ~ E4700 --- ~ A1100
N - ~ C3300 --- ~ C8100
P - ~ E7700 --- ~ A0600 + ~ D5800 --- ~ G5200
S - ~ A8000 --- ~ H
T - ~ A0600 --- ~ A6700
Y - ~ A1500 --- ~ A6700

(there is a designation . (dot) - may belong to this group: prototypes --- ~ E1800)


- left side: code of tube/frame model - one or two capital letter(s):

C - Corsa: ~ Z4600 --- ~ D9000
CX - Criterium: ~ Z7900 --- ~ A9999
M - Strada: ~ A1500 --- ~ B 9999
R - Reynolds 531
TT - Columbus TSX
WW - Strada: ~ D --- ?
X - Columbus SLX

( Columbus SL, Max, EM MX-L, EM Arcobaleno, Reynolds 501, 753, 653 - no markings )
( sometimes after the marks TT and X a letter B appears - meaning unknown --- british thread?)

- left side: height of the seat tube in cm - the last digit i.e:

2 = 52cm or 62cm
5 = 55cm
8 = 48cm or 58cm

- right side:the series marked with a capital letter - in order: E,Z,A,B,C,D,F,G,H,? ( 9999 frames in each - certainly not all frames of the F, G and H series have been painted and sold)

(the first series did not have a letter designation, it probably produced 999 frames - it is not clear whether frames without serial numbers - prototypes - were included in this series)

(there are team markings: KE - Kelme, CS - Capri Sonne, ED - Europ Decor, W - Winning --- used in seasons 1982-1983 without serial numbers ( every team had a separate frame numbering );
from 1984, team designations appeared next to serial numbers i.e. Kelme ( KE ) and Panasonic ( P )- at least until the 1986 season).

The above description is not precise or flawless, but is now - probably - the closest to the truth. Applies only to steel markings of frames manufactured by Eddy Merckx Cycles - the best company in the world :) Any information, correction and question will be accepted carefully, any necessary changes will be implemented immediately. Thank you, best regards - Jacek

satbuilder 05-01-19 03:55 PM

I used to use this one:

Eddy Merckx Serial Numbers

CyclesMakaron 05-02-19 04:05 AM

Hi! I know - like the whole world for a dozen or so years :) the problem is that this site
contains a lot of obvious errors ( a few simple ones ):

1) A ( left side ) mark certainly does not mean "Professional"- You can find them
on every model produced in range given by me (1980-1989); similarly to the legendary P - they are all models from years 84-86; truth is brutal - EMC did not use any markings for frames built on Columbus SL/SP, you will not find them on EM 80-86 bikes popularly ( but unofficialy ) called "Professional"...You'll find a lot of other letters - but they mean something completely different ( see my description ).

2) Multisport model did not exist - it is pure invention; M - an EMC employee probably 83-86, then ( from 87 ) M means Columbus Cromor ( EM Strada ).

3) in the 90's not even one bicycle with E series marks was made ( the invention of GITA employees ) - this series appeared only once - 1981/1984.

4) Z series dating (!): in one year EMC produced 9999 frames ? Really ? In 1981-1984 an average of 2500 frames would be produced per year ( entire E series = 9999 frames), then 9999 in 1985, then descent to level of 5000 frames per year ( series A,B, etc ). How does this work for employees at EMC ? 1980 - (start) - 7; 1981 - 18 ( average 139 frames/man per year ); 1985 - 21 ( av.476 !!! ); 1987 - 34 ( av.147 ). How does it work ? Does not work: Z series is production from summer 1984 to autumn 1986.

Thank You, Best Regards - Jacek

RobbieTunes 05-04-19 01:53 PM

Left side: 5 A

Right side: 979 Z

http://www.cadre.org/Merckx/5A-979-Z/merckx01hc5.jpg

Pictures

This is the bike. Now in my dining room.

CyclesMakaron 05-05-19 12:36 AM

Hi! This is Eddy Merckx (Professional) late version. There is EM Z847 with a proof of purchase dated November 23, 1984 - that means yours is production in autumn 1984 (more precisely I can not really do). Beautiful thing - Best Regards - Jacek

RobbieTunes 05-05-19 09:14 AM

Can I call it a "Professional" or should I just say it's a Merckx? I don't really care either way, but someone is sure to ask.

CyclesMakaron 05-05-19 10:02 AM

"Professional" is an unofficial name, but widely used and recognizable - bicycle people decided :)

cb400bill 05-05-19 10:05 AM

Sounds similar to the original Ferrari Daytona. Tt is the 365 GTB/4, No where on the car does it say Daytona.

Soylent 05-05-19 11:18 AM

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...427f0185e1.jpg
What about the team bikes? Can you make sense of the numbering? This is a Weinman corsa extra with TSX decal. I have been told it was likely SLX and the TSX was just "advertizing/sponsor" requirement.

Forgot to add that is a beautiful Merckx. You're planning on keeping that one for awhile Robbie, right?

gomango 05-05-19 11:44 AM


Originally Posted by RobbieTunes (Post 20914014)
Left side: 5 A

Right side: 979 Z

http://www.cadre.org/Merckx/5A-979-Z/merckx01hc5.jpg

Pictures

This is the bike. Now in my dining room.

Gorgeous bike.

It would be tough to resist if I were offered another, that's for sure.

CyclesMakaron 05-05-19 12:58 PM

OK: Team Weinmann 1991 "camo" (and I see it - "pink bottom") could not appear until late autumn 1990 - the trouble is that the designation of your frame is 1989 ... someone in EMC was clairvoyant or the frame was repainted ; you can not see any model / tube markings - for TSX it should be TT, for SLX - X. There is one more option: someone instead of C chose B (I saw at least once the frame marked in such a wrong way). Show more pictures, it is rather over-painting (perhaps at EMC factory - they did this often to the order of customers who wanted to "upgrade camo".

Soylent 05-05-19 04:38 PM

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...960c9a8647.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c39107d74c.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1c035e7102.jpg

CyclesMakaron 05-06-19 01:18 AM

Hi! .... painting is very ok, putting stickers less. It seems, however, that it had to be repainted (where? EMC did it flawlessly, but good painters are not lacking); the designation B3451 precedes the designation of all known EM 10th Anniversary from 1990 (debut TSX); rather, it should be SLX (sometimes the X symbol was not knocked out); the lateral cable running was introduced before the 1989 season (Hitachi, Domex) - quite a riddle ...

jet sanchEz 05-06-19 07:12 AM

Neat!

Jacek, were you an employee at the Merckx factory?

RobbieTunes 05-06-19 09:00 AM


Originally Posted by CyclesMakaron (Post 20914956)
"Professional" is an unofficial name, but widely used and recognizable - bicycle people decided :)

Maybe I'll just put DA9000 on it and call it My Merckx.

Soylent 05-06-19 09:08 AM

Interesting. Possibly a team bike updated to a newer season livery/"camo"? Or a frame that sat an extra season before being painted? I have found quite a few of these frames on the I internet with the same livery and side routed cable.

CyclesMakaron 05-06-19 10:58 AM

This is likely, but rather "old" frames would be used on training bikes. At the moment on eBay is displayed frame Motorola Caloi described as used by Cezary Zamana (with documents etc.). It is strange that Mr Zamana ( Pozdrowienia Panie Czarku ! ) worked in Motorola in the 1995 season, and the frame designation shows the area around the turn of the year 92/93 .... there can always be a human error, but where? ... No, I have not worked in EMC plants - thanks to this I am an absolutely independent history researcher :)

dxn2 05-12-19 06:39 AM

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9a4f586962.jpg

Any thoughts on this one. I know its an Arcobaleno.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...86082f11dc.jpg

CyclesMakaron 05-13-19 12:07 AM

Arcobaleno, version 1: with lugs, normal seat post clamp, team GAN "camo" - 1995. Beautiful bike

malberto13 06-30-19 09:46 PM

Interesting info, I currently have a EM Corsa Extra that is marked on the left P 1 XB and on the right G4513. I have reason to believe based on the old source that is linked above that I have 97 or 98 Corsa extra but what do you think it is since your discovery on the serial numbers?

malberto13 07-02-19 07:12 PM

what year is this EM Frame?
 
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...60fb0e5076.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e9793020c7.jpg

I think its a 97 but I don't know for sure. any thought?
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1d1ca231d7.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...879f668ba6.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...804176000e.jpg

CyclesMakaron 07-08-19 09:18 AM

Determining the date of production of EMC bikes can be ... difficult. I will make an ambitious attempt :) There is: frame belonging (previously) to Steve Bauer, the one in bizarre geometry used in spring 93 - serial number D7xxx; frames used by the team Motorola F3650 (Cezary Zamana - in Motorola only in 1995) and F4294 (Armstrong); recently on ebay appeared a frame described as Armstrong TdF1995 (confirmed - as to the origin - by Mr. Vrancx) - F9016. If all this makes sense, then: EM Bauer - IV93, EM Zamana - IX94, EM Armstong - X94, EM TdF95 - VI95 (if Bauer's frame was produced in the autumn of '93 - it would be perfect, if someone confirmed it ...). Weak point: production per month (EM Bauer - EM Zamana: ~ 6200 frames in 17 months = 365 per month, if Bauer should be moved in the fall 93 = 515 p / m --- EM Zamana - EM TdF: ~ 5350 frames in 9 months = 595) According to this "calendar", your frame would be built at the earliest in spring 1996. Another version is: F9016 was produced in 1995 but in autumn / winter (after TdF95, but before the 1996 season); then the average production of spring 93 - fall 95 is ~ 385 per month, and your frame is production from the turn of 1996/1997. To sum up: 1996 - 80%; 1997 - 20% (I can not be more precise at the moment). P.S. rarely found "camo": it is not in the catalogs for 1995 (and earlier) and 1998 (and later) ...

verktyg 07-08-19 10:28 AM

1985 56cm Corsa ??
 
I got this EMC bike back in 2008. I think that it's a 56cm 1985 Corsa. It has a Campy Croce D'aune gruppo with Delta brakes which came out in 1988. The shift levers are Campy Doppler retrofriction rather than Synchro "indexing" levers. Poor quality photos were taken in a hurry back when I received the bike.

BB stampings:

6C A Z 8466

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8dcc8cb1d7.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b731bc2b0d.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a92a07e59c.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b976ebb949.jpg

Old style Columbus sticker with no tubing mark (SL-SP)

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d91a0e8b6d.jpg

verktyg :50:

malberto13 07-08-19 12:57 PM


Originally Posted by CyclesMakaron (Post 21016681)
Determining the date of production of EMC bikes can be ... difficult. I will make an ambitious attempt :) There is: frame belonging (previously) to Steve Bauer, the one in bizarre geometry used in spring 93 - serial number D7xxx; frames used by the team Motorola F3650 (Cezary Zamana - in Motorola only in 1995) and F4294 (Armstrong); recently on ebay appeared a frame described as Armstrong TdF1995 (confirmed - as to the origin - by Mr. Vrancx) - F9016. If all this makes sense, then: EM Bauer - IV93, EM Zamana - IX94, EM Armstong - X94, EM TdF95 - VI95 (if Bauer's frame was produced in the autumn of '93 - it would be perfect, if someone confirmed it ...). Weak point: production per month (EM Bauer - EM Zamana: ~ 6200 frames in 17 months = 365 per month, if Bauer should be moved in the fall 93 = 515 p / m --- EM Zamana - EM TdF: ~ 5350 frames in 9 months = 595) According to this "calendar", your frame would be built at the earliest in spring 1996. Another version is: F9016 was produced in 1995 but in autumn / winter (after TdF95, but before the 1996 season); then the average production of spring 93 - fall 95 is ~ 385 per month, and your frame is production from the turn of 1996/1997. To sum up: 1996 - 80%; 1997 - 20% (I can not be more precise at the moment). P.S. rarely found "camo": it is not in the catalogs for 1995 (and earlier) and 1998 (and later) ...

Thanks for your response. I also could not find this color scheme in any catalogs so I struggled to find out its year based on the catalogs, but the cable guides in the frame made believe it was a mid 90's frame. I guess I will just call it a 96!

CyclesMakaron 07-09-19 12:12 AM

Beautiful Corsa ver.1 (with cut-outs lugs and no chainbridge), production 1986 ("catalog" equipped with Campagnolo Victory). Corsa is a continuation of the "old" Eddy Merckx (Professional), built from the same tubes (Columbus SL / SP or Reynolds 531) - old pattern sticker, used in EMC to 1988 (in the next pattern the "Columbus" sign was moved to the top of the sticker - see 1989 EMC catalog).


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