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Rinko rtp!

Old 05-03-19, 04:31 PM
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Jmclay
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Rinko RTP!

Save for some fine tuning I've completed my Rinko Rat Trap Pass Allroad bicycle. Here are some photos of the inaugural Rinkoification run. A little bracket or stand-off will be needed to protect the rear derailleur from the deck. I neglected to include the front porteur rack but since the front struts detach it's basically a flat rectangle of no meaningful thickness. You can see the slip ring in photos #2 and 4, and the brass brush sticking out of it's insulated cylinder in photo #3 . Lights and SON generator hub are coming.




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Old 05-03-19, 04:54 PM
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Very nice John! Nice, compact setup. The one thing I forgot to do on my rinko setup is add a chain holder, which obviously makes for a cleaner rinko breakdown.

And the slip ring is much more elegant than the plug in wiring I'm using. It'll be on a "next" build - I followed your pix and explanations carefully.
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Old 05-03-19, 05:02 PM
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Those tyres are THICC. Nice bike, looking forward to the rest.
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Old 05-03-19, 06:34 PM
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Beautiful bike. I bet the ride is wonderful.
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Old 05-04-19, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
Very nice John! Nice, compact setup. The one thing I forgot to do on my rinko setup is add a chain holder, which obviously makes for a cleaner rinko breakdown.

And the slip ring is much more elegant than the plug in wiring I'm using. It'll be on a "next" build - I followed your pix and explanations carefully.
Thanks Mark!

Re the chain hanger - Mine is too low and that lets the chain jockey arm stick out, just waiting to be snapped off (photos below). I'll leave the existing one on for wheel removal/tire repair but I'm also going to add one about 10mm below the canti boss for rinko use. That will get the jockey arm pretty much out of harm's way.

I neglected (as in forgot) to include the offset tab in the slip ring on this bike and that causes interference between the soldered connection of the wire and the ID of the lower bearing cup when the fork is being installed; the wire is suffering so that's unacceptable. Before going straight to yanking the ring off and installing one with the tab I'm going to see if I can solder a smaller diameter insulated wire (the nice stuff from Velolumino)to the underside of the ring, where there's a little gap. I think I'll be able to re-insulate as may be necessary. If that works, great. If not I may try to silver braze an offset tab to the ring, in situ. If that fails, or looks unworkable, I'll remove the existing ring and make a proper one. If there's room in the annulus between ring and steerer, and there's always a little gap, I'll solder the wire to the underside of the tab and bed in epoxy; all that to maximize clearances for fork removal/installation.

Originally Posted by JaccoW View Post
Those tyres are THICC. Nice bike, looking forward to the rest.
Originally Posted by TenGrainBread View Post
Beautiful bike. I bet the ride is wonderful.
Thanks for the kind words guys....and the ride is indeed wonderful.

Here are a couple more photos, these with the porteur rack included in the package. In future I'll sandwich it in-between one of the tires and frame so that neither the struts that connect it to the fork nor the tombstone are exposed.


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Old 05-06-19, 08:51 PM
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Necessary improvements to the slip-ring on the RTP bike are documented in post #54 , here: Internal wiring for dynamo lights: the heads tube connection
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Old 05-07-19, 09:59 AM
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That is really nice, and your various threads documenting the build are a superb oeuvre. It's really nice to see someone building an allroad bike with fenders and without disc brakes. What fenders are those? Berthoud?
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Old 05-08-19, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by scarlson View Post
That is really nice, and your various threads documenting the build are a superb oeuvre. It's really nice to see someone building an allroad bike with fenders and without disc brakes. What fenders are those? Berthoud?
Thanks! I'm stoked with how this turned out and continues to evolve.

The Berthoud fender struts were the tell, no?

That's a savvy call but the fenders are actually Velo Orange, two sets, 26" x 60mm, Smooth Aluminum . I re-purposed one rear from a set as the new front; the two fronts were turned into the new split rear, including the splice piece. The other rear is a spare.

For the life of me I can't imagine why anyone would either produce or use drawbolt struts once the flattened ones had been invented. The drawbolt units are heavier, more fiddly and consume about 10mm of distance relative to toe/fender overlap. I also discovered, via using the drawbolt units for a month, that the space between the strut and fender coupled with the added hindrance of the bolts themselves, made for a toe catch point that was startling effective, and difficult from which to escape. There is no toe/fender interference with the Berthoud units.

I can, from the hoods, do two finger lockups on firm offroad surfaces. On pavement I could go over the bars if I wanted to.
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Old 05-08-19, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Jmclay View Post
Thanks! I'm stoked with how this turned out and continues to evolve.

The Berthoud fender struts were the tell, no?

That's a savvy call but the fenders are actually Velo Orange, two sets, 26" x 60mm, Smooth Aluminum . I re-purposed one rear from a set as the new front; the two fronts were turned into the new split rear, including the splice piece. The other rear is a spare.
I was actually unsure, which is why I asked. They didn't look like any of my Berthouds, Honjos, Lefols, or VOs, even though the struts were definitely Berthoud, but I'm not too familiar with the 26" offerings on the market and I was too lazy to use my google-fu or flip back through my old Bicycle Quarterly collection to try and sleuth it out. I, too, use VO fenders with Berthoud struts. I've even used flattened alu tubing instead of the strut. Works OK.

For the life of me I can't imagine why anyone would either produce or use drawbolt struts once the flattened ones had been invented. The drawbolt units are heavier, more fiddly and consume about 10mm of distance relative to toe/fender overlap. I also discovered, via using the drawbolt units for a month, that the space between the strut and fender coupled with the added hindrance of the bolts themselves, made for a toe catch point that was startling effective, and difficult from which to escape. There is no toe/fender interference with the Berthoud units.
I agree, and that's exactly why I use them. Anywhere there's toe overlap, because you're right, those daruma bolt things can be bad news. They are surprisingly hook-y.

I can, from the hoods, do two finger lockups on firm offroad surfaces. On pavement I could go over the bars if I wanted to.
Yep, stopping power seems about the same with good cantilevers as with good discs. It is too bad more people (particularly large framebuilders) don't rebel or protest. I think the current obsession with discs has a lot to do with marketing and ease of manufacture/setup, the same way manufacturers were able to foist 32-spoke wheels upon us several decades ago under the guise of a performance upgrade.
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Old 05-08-19, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Jmclay View Post
For the life of me I can't imagine why anyone would either produce or use drawbolt struts once the flattened ones had been invented. The drawbolt units are heavier, more fiddly and consume about 10mm of distance relative to toe/fender overlap.
Not necessarily. You could mount the Honjo hardware this way, as JP Weigle does. The struts sit flush with the fender.

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Old 05-08-19, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by palincss View Post
Not necessarily. You could mount the Honjo hardware this way, as JP Weigle does. The struts sit flush with the fender.
Yes, you can but from both manufacturing and installation perspectives why would anyone desire to go to the trouble? It takes, what, 45 seconds to install the two bolts, washers and nuts on a Berthoud stay? The modified drawbolt method takes vastly more time and trouble....and still sticks out a little bit farther than the Berthoud approach plus it retains the two drawbolt protrusions.

I've used the drawbolt attachments, still have them on my BSP bike, but given the Berthoud as an option I can see no reason to manufacture it. The only theoretical possibility that I can see is for increased lateral stability, but I have a difficult time believing that that's an issue.

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Old 05-08-19, 05:22 PM
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That's really nice John, thanks for posting it. I'm definitely going to add rinko features to the current frame, although not the internal slip ring
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Old 05-09-19, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by palincss View Post
Not necessarily. You could mount the Honjo hardware this way, as JP Weigle does. The struts sit flush with the fender.
Let me rephrase my response on the chance that the last one came off strident. If it did it wasn't intentional.

I think it's cool that there is a way to ameliorate the undesirable attributes of drawbolt fender stay connections. But I also think it unfortunate that fender manufacturers would continue to provide drawbolt connections and that vendors would sell them, or choose them given the availability of other options. Drawbolt connections are more fiddly and they reduce toe/fender clearance. Peter's modification is nice and functional but it's a bit of a nose bleed. Flattened stays (at the fender attachment area only, of course) provide even more clearance and are vastly easier and quicker to install.

If maintaining a round cross-section meaningfully enhances lateral stability or durability then why not, particularly if you're Compass/Rene Herse, have your suppliers adopt the method that Peter used in the photo?

In the mean time I'm going to see if I can do a decent job of flattening one of my all-round stays and turn it into a Berthoud type unit.

Last edited by Jmclay; 05-09-19 at 06:00 AM.
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