Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Barn Find - Gitane Professional Tour de France 1971?

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Barn Find - Gitane Professional Tour de France 1971?

Old 05-10-19, 09:49 AM
  #26  
tiger1964
Senior Member
 
tiger1964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maryland
Posts: 645

Bikes: Drysdale/Gitane/Zeus/Palo-Alto/Falcon

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Yeah, deserves tubulars... and a prettier pump peg.

Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

If bike a 1971 its Stronglight 93 chainset will be the early type ("G1") which is somewhat prone to failures at the pedal hole.
My first thought -- after 48 years??? I'd think this a non-issue, woulda broke by now.

My second thought -- no idea how many miles on this bike, or how hard. Maybe only ridden in first gear.

Now I need to go check the 93's I have stored away for a date code.
tiger1964 is online now  
Old 05-11-19, 12:41 AM
  #27  
verktyg 
verktyg
 
verktyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 2,849

Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1990 Bianchi Mondiale, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA Team Pro, 1973 Holdsworth

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 477 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Claw Hanger Rant

Originally Posted by jonwvara View Post
Chas, I've often benefited from your deep reservoir of TdF knowledge. But I will observe mildly that the Red Clover Components site doesn't suggest or recommend modifying a Simplex derailleur hanger--it merely notes that it can be done. As you know, it was a common "fix" back in the day. Like you, I think it's a terrible idea. I believe it's clear to most readers that I favor the non-destructive alternatives that are also mentioned.
JV
Thanks for the kudos. guys.

JV,

Apologies, I confess that I'm guilty of starting my anti claw hanger RANT just looking at the pictures and not reading the text on your website.

Back in the day amateur hammersmiths thought that castrating Simplex dropouts and using a Campy RD with a claw hanger was the way to go. ARGH!!!

Here's 2 magazine articles from 1972 and 1973 on how to destroy a Simplex dropout (note the first FOOL describes the dropout as both a "lug" and a "fork"):



During the late 60's and early 70's French bikes were just about the only ones that came with Simplex dropouts. Those bikes weren't held in any special esteem and modifying the derailleur hanger to take a Campagnolo or Suntour RD wasn't considered a big issue, especially with the disdain held for Simplex Delrin derailleurs.

We sold Gitane TdFs and a few other brands with those dropouts. It was a simple operation to file a travel stop notch into the trailing side of the dropout and run a 10mm x 26 TPI or 10mm x 1mm tap through the mounting hole. (10mm x 1mm is a standard spark plug size and is available at most auto parts and hardware stores for ~$5.00)



Serious riders who could afford the ~$29.00 price tag for a Campy NR derailleur went that way. For others, the $6.00 Suntour V or $7.00 VGT long arm was just the ticket.

By early 1975 the Shimano Crane and the long arm Crane GS (also the Titlist and Tourney) derailleurs were readily available and easier to install. You just had to tap the mounting hole out to 10mm. They had a travel stop tab that fit over the front of the dropout just like Simplex derailleurs.




Over the years a lot of different derailleurs had these travel stop tabs including the 1st generation Campy Rally, later Campy models and many different Shimano models.

Two other things:

Simplex RDs from that era fit all of the Campy style dropouts without a problem. The tab fit over the front of the hanger just like on Simplex dropouts.

Even after the mounting hole in a Simplex dropout has been tapped to 10mm, Simplex RDs will fit without a problem because the minor diameter for those treads was still 9mm, the same as the Simplex rear mounting bolt.

One other observation, most of the PX-10 owners in our region stuck with Simplex Delrin derailleurs back then, even the racers.

"Just One More Thing"



Push rod, plunger style, match box or whatever you want to call them FDs whether Simplex, Campy or what have you, s**ked.

Rather than a parallelogram that attempted to lift the chain from the small sprocket to the larger one they try to push the chain off the sprocket, forcing it to move upward. And yes,I know all the tricks to get them to work. I have them on 4-5 bikes.

verktyg
__________________
Things aren't always what they seem... Don't believe everything you think!

Chas. ;-)

Last edited by verktyg; 05-11-19 at 01:22 AM.
verktyg is offline  
Old 05-11-19, 01:11 AM
  #28  
verktyg 
verktyg
 
verktyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 2,849

Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1990 Bianchi Mondiale, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA Team Pro, 1973 Holdsworth

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 477 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Claw Hangers HATE HATE HATE

Like I said in my Grateful Dead lyrics: "Out in the Rain and cold and Wind" and the claw hanger falls out of the dropout and spins around and wraps the chain around the freewheel, trying to straighten out the mess with wet greasy fingers....

I don't have any bikes with claw hangers but I've thought about it and if perchance a really nice old French or British bike without an integral hanger came my way, I would figure a way so that the claw would remain solidly in place when the rear wheel was removed.

I was thinking that drilling a hole in the dropout and the claw so that it would be bolted in place would be an easy fix.

verktyg
__________________
Things aren't always what they seem... Don't believe everything you think!

Chas. ;-)
verktyg is offline  
Old 05-11-19, 06:24 AM
  #29  
jonwvara 
Senior Member
 
jonwvara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Washington County, Vermont, USA
Posts: 2,892

Bikes: 1966 Dawes Double Blue, 1976 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1975 Raleigh Sprite 27, 1980 Univega Viva Sport, 1971 Gitane Tour de France, 1984 Lotus Classique, 1976 Motobecane Grand Record

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 283 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by verktyg View Post
Thanks for the kudos. guys.

JV,

Apologies, I confess that I'm guilty of starting my anti claw hanger RANT just looking at the pictures and not reading the text on your website.

Back in the day amateur hammersmiths thought that castrating Simplex dropouts and using a Campy RD with a claw hanger was the way to go. ARGH!!!

Here's 2 magazine articles from 1972 and 1973 on how to destroy a Simplex dropout (note the first FOOL describes the dropout as both a "lug" and a "fork"):



During the late 60's and early 70's French bikes were just about the only ones that came with Simplex dropouts. Those bikes weren't held in any special esteem and modifying the derailleur hanger to take a Campagnolo or Suntour RD wasn't considered a big issue, especially with the disdain held for Simplex Delrin derailleurs.

We sold Gitane TdFs and a few other brands with those dropouts. It was a simple operation to file a travel stop notch into the trailing side of the dropout and run a 10mm x 26 TPI or 10mm x 1mm tap through the mounting hole. (10mm x 1mm is a standard spark plug size and is available at most auto parts and hardware stores for ~$5.00)



Serious riders who could afford the ~$29.00 price tag for a Campy NR derailleur went that way. For others, the $6.00 Suntour V or $7.00 VGT long arm was just the ticket.

By early 1975 the Shimano Crane and the long arm Crane GS (also the Titlist and Tourney) derailleurs were readily available and easier to install. You just had to tap the mounting hole out to 10mm. They had a travel stop tab that fit over the front of the dropout just like Simplex derailleurs.




Over the years a lot of different derailleurs had these travel stop tabs including the 1st generation Campy Rally, later Campy models and many different Shimano models.

Two other things:

Simplex RDs from that era fit all of the Campy style dropouts without a problem. The tab fit over the front of the hanger just like on Simplex dropouts.

Even after the mounting hole in a Simplex dropout has been tapped to 10mm, Simplex RDs will fit without a problem because the minor diameter for those treads was still 9mm, the same as the Simplex rear mounting bolt.

One other observation, most of the PX-10 owners in our region stuck with Simplex Delrin derailleurs back then, even the racers.

"Just One More Thing"



Push rod, plunger style, match box or whatever you want to call them FDs whether Simplex, Campy or what have you, s**ked.

Rather than a parallelogram that attempted to lift the chain from the small sprocket to the larger one they try to push the chain off the sprocket, forcing it to move upward. And yes,I know all the tricks to get them to work. I have them on 4-5 bikes.

verktyg
Kurt Miska and Paul Pierce--sheesh! I've always felt that it's unfair to judge people from the past by the standards of a later time, but I'm prepared to make an exception for these two guys. Mr. Miska starts his article with the words "If you have the urge to tinker with your bike, like I do,..." You can't make this stuff up. The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines the verb "tinker" as "to repair, adjust, or work with something in an unskilled or experimental manner: fiddle," and the noun as "an unskilled mender: bungler." So at least he had that part right.

As for Mr. Pierce, what can you say? The directions he provides are just about hopeless. The editor couldn't even be bothered to provide any photos. I pity the fool who attempted to follow them. No wonder there are so many butchered hangers out in the world.

Thanks for sharing the articles.
__________________
www.redclovercomponents.com

"Progress might have been all right once, but it has gone on too long."
--Ogden Nash
jonwvara is offline  
Old 05-11-19, 06:30 AM
  #30  
jonwvara 
Senior Member
 
jonwvara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Washington County, Vermont, USA
Posts: 2,892

Bikes: 1966 Dawes Double Blue, 1976 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1975 Raleigh Sprite 27, 1980 Univega Viva Sport, 1971 Gitane Tour de France, 1984 Lotus Classique, 1976 Motobecane Grand Record

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 283 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by verktyg View Post
I don't have any bikes with claw hangers but I've thought about it and if perchance a really nice old French or British bike without an integral hanger came my way, I would figure a way so that the claw would remain solidly in place when the rear wheel was removed.

I was thinking that drilling a hole in the dropout and the claw so that it would be bolted in place would be an easy fix.

verktyg
Nice one! You got me--I was momentarily shocked and horrified until I realized that you were chain-yanking..

For what it's worth, I have never really a problem with mounting claws rotating. Mine seem to stay in place well enough if the mounting bolt is tight. I suppose you could use a little blue threadlocker. but I never have.
__________________
www.redclovercomponents.com

"Progress might have been all right once, but it has gone on too long."
--Ogden Nash
jonwvara is offline  
Old 05-14-19, 12:40 PM
  #31  
CriticalThought
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: California
Posts: 195

Bikes: Santana Sovereign Tandem, Five Rings Carbon, Lemond Alpe d'Huez, Miele Latina, Hercules Tourist, Mercian Super Tourist Tandem, Birdy BD-1, Duell Solo, Jack Taylor Marathon Tandem, Raleigh RSW-16, DL-1, and Superbe

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Update

Thanks again everyone for your advice and input. It looks like this TdF will clean up nicely, the shiny bits anyway. I dusted her off and cleaned up the saddle... which I was really keen on trying out since I've read so much about Ideales, especially the rare alloy rail 90. It's surprisingly comfortable (for an around the block ride). I didn't do much more than that since the tires leave something to be desired. The seller called the tires "new". I think "unridden" would have been a better description. I was scared to go far since even without pumping them up much they seemed ready to burst. But at least I know the frame is close enough to my size that I'll be able to enjoy it once it's all sorted out properly.

So, some more questions for the experts.....

Does anyone have any advice on prettying up (darkening) the Derlin parts of the Simplex derailleurs? Obviously I don't want to weaken them, but this bike has done quite a few miles in the sun and the black bits are now more a washed out grey. I haven't yet read the threads that already cover this, but thought I'd ask all the same. (Same goes for the little "nuts" on the shift levers, the plastic covers of which are still nice and dark despite being black plastic.)

Any recommendations on the paint and decals? Looks like Cyclomondo has pretty much all the decals needed to do a full replacement, but if I go that route should I leave the paint original and just touch it up (the top tube in particular is pretty sun-oxidized) or should I repaint? Thoughts?

And finally, and advice on the brakes? I plan on keeping these but the holders and pads have been modernized. I'd like something more original looking. Should I look for exact placements or go with something similar but remade? Any good sources?

I'm really looking forward to getting some miles on this TdF once it's a bit more ridable!

Thanks.



















CriticalThought is offline  
Old 05-14-19, 12:57 PM
  #32  
BFisher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: NEPA
Posts: 137
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
@CriticalThought, I believe vaseline will bring the luster back to the delrin parts.
BFisher is offline  
Old 05-14-19, 07:41 PM
  #33  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 6,425

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pederson racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 490 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
I've found that burnishing the plastic in the presence of a petro lubricant like motor oil or even WD40 brings back the black, I've used a sharpened chopstick for this.

I see the beginnings of cracking of the front derailer, it's failing in diagonal shear but I sure can't say when it might be totally unserviceable.
dddd is offline  
Old 05-14-19, 07:46 PM
  #34  
CriticalThought
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: California
Posts: 195

Bikes: Santana Sovereign Tandem, Five Rings Carbon, Lemond Alpe d'Huez, Miele Latina, Hercules Tourist, Mercian Super Tourist Tandem, Birdy BD-1, Duell Solo, Jack Taylor Marathon Tandem, Raleigh RSW-16, DL-1, and Superbe

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks @dddd. I can see that now that you point it out when I look at that photo of it from the top. Hmmm... Now that I've been thinking about these Derlin Simplex I kind of want to keep them!. Maybe I can keep en eye out for an old but relatively unused one (this one has a lot of miles on it according to the original owner). Having an un-cracked spare would make me feel less concerned about riding with this.

Last edited by CriticalThought; 05-15-19 at 11:55 AM.
CriticalThought is offline  
Old 05-15-19, 12:09 PM
  #35  
CriticalThought
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: California
Posts: 195

Bikes: Santana Sovereign Tandem, Five Rings Carbon, Lemond Alpe d'Huez, Miele Latina, Hercules Tourist, Mercian Super Tourist Tandem, Birdy BD-1, Duell Solo, Jack Taylor Marathon Tandem, Raleigh RSW-16, DL-1, and Superbe

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Update - Looking for a new Front Derailleur - Simplex?

So, the Derlin bit of the front derailleur has fractures forming just about everywhere there is stress. Some places completely cracked through sadly. Some parts look like rust formed on the steel and the fractures formed with the expansion, kind of like uncoated rebar rusting causing reinforced concrete to fracture.

So.... what to do? Source a less damaged but identical Simplex front derailleur, or look for something that I can ride without worry but in keeping with the period and spirit of the Gitane?

Would love any suggestions. Maybe a later all metal Simplex? or a Huret? I'd like to keep it French and not have to worry about non-French tube sized mech.

Thanks again for all of your input. At least the rear looks good. I'll try to darken the Derlin and shine up the chrome.














CriticalThought is offline  
Old 05-15-19, 12:20 PM
  #36  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 6,425

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pederson racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 490 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Since many French parts were formed from steel sheet, I usually look for an all-steel, generic derailer without pronounced branding when looking to replace the plastic ones.

Note that you likely may have to shim the seattube clamp to fully grip on a French bike's slightly-smaller (Metric-sized) tubing.

Here's one example, 1979 UO9 Super Sport with a steel DNM front derailer sourced from shop discards. Works well, though I have to admit that even the Simplex plastic front derailers have always worked very well for me in dry conditions, even for spirited riding in these foothills.


Last edited by dddd; 05-15-19 at 12:24 PM.
dddd is offline  
Old 05-15-19, 12:42 PM
  #37  
CriticalThought
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: California
Posts: 195

Bikes: Santana Sovereign Tandem, Five Rings Carbon, Lemond Alpe d'Huez, Miele Latina, Hercules Tourist, Mercian Super Tourist Tandem, Birdy BD-1, Duell Solo, Jack Taylor Marathon Tandem, Raleigh RSW-16, DL-1, and Superbe

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I did some poking around and found that these derailleurs aren't too expensive, even as new-old-stock. I think I'm going to buy a clean & un-used one, and just take care of it and keep it out of the sun. If I can get as many miles out of one as the original owner got out of his one, then I'll consider it a win.
CriticalThought is offline  
Old 05-15-19, 12:44 PM
  #38  
CriticalThought
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: California
Posts: 195

Bikes: Santana Sovereign Tandem, Five Rings Carbon, Lemond Alpe d'Huez, Miele Latina, Hercules Tourist, Mercian Super Tourist Tandem, Birdy BD-1, Duell Solo, Jack Taylor Marathon Tandem, Raleigh RSW-16, DL-1, and Superbe

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by dddd View Post
Since many French parts were formed from steel sheet, I usually look for an all-steel, generic derailer without pronounced branding when looking to replace the plastic ones.

Note that you likely may have to shim the seattube clamp to fully grip on a French bike's slightly-smaller (Metric-sized) tubing.

Here's one example, 1979 UO9 Super Sport with a steel DNM front derailer sourced from shop discards. Works well, though I have to admit that even the Simplex plastic front derailers have always worked very well for me in dry conditions, even for spirited riding in these foothills.

Thanks for the perspective, @dddd I'll keep an eye out for an all steel one as well since it seems these Derlin ones inevitably fail (unless hung on the wall!).

CriticalThought is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.