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What's the deal with people looking down on old frames?

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What's the deal with people looking down on old frames?

Old 05-13-19, 11:17 AM
  #76  
tkamd73
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
???

A good chunk of the forum members are obsessed with the bikes of their youth. Back then, they were the latest and greatest, not janky old crap.

I think the only difference today is that people actively look for conflict. This thread being a prime example. How many pages now?
Good points, as to your second one, conflict is pretty easy these days, itís anonymous, no repercussions, especially physical ones. Anyone can do it, even the meek and mild, as long as you stay in the online world. Actual physical conflict is a bit different these days, at least in the US, more guns then people, one tends to end up dead or in jail. Back in the CV days, starting a conflict, you might be taking a punch or landing one, if the discourse got too heated. I do get to see that occasionally now, on the security side of the airport, where guns arenít an issue.
Tim
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Old 05-13-19, 11:21 AM
  #77  
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Who has the issue here?

Originally Posted by turtledove View Post
I have a late 80s/early 90s chromaly rigid MTB that I've spent lots of love and care into. Whether in powdercoating, threadless stem conversion, tuning, etc. Over the time I've worked on this, couple of the experience I've dealt with, wondering if you can share similar experiences or takes on these:
  1. At first glance, they assume it's an old Walmart bike (which it surely is not) and pass judgement my way without giving it a closer look. I've had a bike shop mechanic do that and turn my bike away from service.
  2. Make passing jokes/comments at my expense. Like the time someone I met went into a full rant about how trash the biopace on my bike are, without warranting any such discussion. Yes, it's universally ridiculed, but it works for me and I haven't had any problems with it, thanks.
  3. I must be stupid for putting so much money into this, about $500 dollars in parts and service. Oh boy, if saving money was my priority. then I wouldn't be into mountain biking. It's about having fun, no idea why this is such a sticking point. If you want to do it and can afford it, do it, right? It's like telling the folks who like to supercharge their Honda Civics to save up for a Bugatti haha.
  4. "Don't do X or Y, you won't get the value out of it." This makes me smile, as if I'm some scrapper trying to refurbish bikes to resell.
  5. "Don't bother doing X, save up for another bike." I don't need the newest and shiniest carbon bike at the moment. This thing has lit a spark of joy in me for mountain biking and backpacking, and I'll buy the newest YT Jeffsy when I feel like my skills have progressed to deserve having one.
Even though I try not to let it get to me, I can't really avoid it when it comes up in the face-to-face interactions with certain bike shops, fellow riders, or random people on the Net. What do you guys think about it?
Someone can only say things that bother you if you allow it. I sometimes will get someone who has something to say about my choice of bike, I just chuckle a little and walk away from them. Sometimes silence is the best comeback.
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Old 05-13-19, 11:33 AM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by turtledove View Post
I have a late 80s/early 90s chromaly rigid MTB that I've spent lots of love and care into. Whether in powdercoating, threadless stem conversion, tuning, etc. Over the time I've worked on this, couple of the experience I've dealt with, wondering if you can share similar experiences or takes on these:
  1. At first glance, they assume it's an old Walmart bike (which it surely is not) and pass judgement my way without giving it a closer look. I've had a bike shop mechanic do that and turn my bike away from service.
  2. Make passing jokes/comments at my expense. Like the time someone I met went into a full rant about how trash the biopace on my bike are, without warranting any such discussion. Yes, it's universally ridiculed, but it works for me and I haven't had any problems with it, thanks.
  3. I must be stupid for putting so much money into this, about $500 dollars in parts and service. Oh boy, if saving money was my priority. then I wouldn't be into mountain biking. It's about having fun, no idea why this is such a sticking point. If you want to do it and can afford it, do it, right? It's like telling the folks who like to supercharge their Honda Civics to save up for a Bugatti haha.
  4. "Don't do X or Y, you won't get the value out of it." This makes me smile, as if I'm some scrapper trying to refurbish bikes to resell.
  5. "Don't bother doing X, save up for another bike." I don't need the newest and shiniest carbon bike at the moment. This thing has lit a spark of joy in me for mountain biking and backpacking, and I'll buy the newest YT Jeffsy when I feel like my skills have progressed to deserve having one.
Even though I try not to let it get to me, I can't really avoid it when it comes up in the face-to-face interactions with certain bike shops, fellow riders, or random people on the Net. What do you guys think about it?
Most people who look down at old quality bikes simple don't know any better. Btw, the late Sheldon Brown liked Bio-pace as do I. Contrary to popular belief you CAN SPIN with Bio-pace chainrings.

I convert a lot of old rigid frame MTBs to drop bar touring bikes and a lot of people think they are store bought dedicated touring bikes.

Cheers
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Old 05-13-19, 11:34 AM
  #79  
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"It cost me $29 and it hasn't broken yet. What did you pay for yours?"

That ought to shut 'em up.

(My '70s Raleigh is old enough to earn compliments now... too bad I'm headed the other way.)
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Old 05-13-19, 11:51 AM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by turtledove View Post
I have a late 80s/early 90s chromaly rigid MTB that I've spent lots of love and care into. Whether in powdercoating, threadless stem conversion, tuning, etc. Over the time I've worked on this, couple of the experience I've dealt with, wondering if you can share similar experiences or takes on these:
  1. At first glance, they assume it's an old Walmart bike (which it surely is not) and pass judgement my way without giving it a closer look. I've had a bike shop mechanic do that and turn my bike away from service.
  2. Make passing jokes/comments at my expense. Like the time someone I met went into a full rant about how trash the biopace on my bike are, without warranting any such discussion. Yes, it's universally ridiculed, but it works for me and I haven't had any problems with it, thanks.
  3. I must be stupid for putting so much money into this, about $500 dollars in parts and service. Oh boy, if saving money was my priority. then I wouldn't be into mountain biking. It's about having fun, no idea why this is such a sticking point. If you want to do it and can afford it, do it, right? It's like telling the folks who like to supercharge their Honda Civics to save up for a Bugatti haha.
  4. "Don't do X or Y, you won't get the value out of it." This makes me smile, as if I'm some scrapper trying to refurbish bikes to resell.
  5. "Don't bother doing X, save up for another bike." I don't need the newest and shiniest carbon bike at the moment. This thing has lit a spark of joy in me for mountain biking and backpacking, and I'll buy the newest YT Jeffsy when I feel like my skills have progressed to deserve having one.
Even though I try not to let it get to me, I can't really avoid it when it comes up in the face-to-face interactions with certain bike shops, fellow riders, or random people on the Net. What do you guys think about it?
I too own a CroMo 90's rigid MTB ('92 Marin Palisades Trail - with a few modifications). It also has Biopace SG cranks - personally I love them, they're great.

I have however experienced the hatred of said cranks, from a Bike Shop employee who decided he was going to try his hardest to make me walk out empty handed. I don't care what others think, I just ignore them and add them to the 'ignorant oiks to avoid' list.

My advice is:
- If you have the money to do something you want, do it.
- If it makes you happy do it.
- Other people are idiots their opinion on your bike is meaningless - unless they agree with you of course

If someone is going to hate on your bike or its components, they're likely going to hate on it regardless of what you say. Don't give them the time of day and just show them that their £3000 bike is not necessarily any better than your retro offering.

Enjoy the riding,
Jack
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Old 05-13-19, 11:57 AM
  #81  
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My bikes are like old friends. They have literally been along for the ride with me for some of the most memorable moments. Hard to part with them. I tried my first carbon bike just like week. Meh.
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Old 05-13-19, 12:10 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Ironfish653 View Post

Remember 1-1/4" steerers? Didn't think so.
I have one & a matching tandem fork with complete headset in good condition. Want it? Cost of shipping if interested. (PM)

On another unrelated note: The hard part is finding the bushings to swap in a more common 1 & 1/8 headset & fork into an old 1 & 1/4 frame. I once passed on an old Trek for that very reason. Known parts unavailibility. Any bikeshop in the world would be wise to avoid a 1 &1/4 headset job.
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Old 05-13-19, 12:12 PM
  #83  
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Love them or you don't

I have 3 C&V bikes. My experience is you either love them and working on them or you don't..... I do and just started a rebuild of my 1978 Peugeot that I rode in Germany while in the Army. It was pretty cool breaking it down - knowing it will be running again soon.
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Old 05-13-19, 12:20 PM
  #84  
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My MTB is an '02 Scapin hardtail with a RockShox SID SL fork & mix of XT/STR gear & Mavic wheels.
Road bikes are an '87 Paramount & '02 Scapin, both with a 10spd Record, Chorus & Centaur mix. The Scapin is the newest I've owned.
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Old 05-13-19, 12:25 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by goomicoo View Post
My bikes are like old friends. They have literally been along for the ride with me for some of the most memorable moments. Hard to part with them. I tried my first carbon bike just like week. Meh.
I got to demo my first carbon MTB last week, a Kona Process, and damn did that feel amazing. But for the kind of riding I do, it just doesn't make financial sense to get it, when I wouldn't utilize it for what it was intended for.
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Old 05-13-19, 12:49 PM
  #86  
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My two cents

Turtledove: How about posting a photo of the bike that has been the subject of so much ridicule?

As for cyclists, in general I have to say they are generally speaking an unfriendly group. I can say this because though I cycle (for over 40 years now,) I also spend time walking on paved paths near my house. The only ******** on the trail are typically cyclists who want to go fast.

Though I love the modern bikes, I also love old steel. In my garage I have a well-used 1988 Fisher Montare XT in blue/white fade, a little-used 1987 Fisher Montare in red complete with old Phil Wood hubs, Magura levers, and Suntour roller-cam brake, and a 1987 Schwinn High Sierra with front and rear Suntour roller-cam brakes (!)

One thing I really don't like to see is someone who tries to make their old steel bike into a half-way modern bike (or Frankenbike.) I say leave it vintage, and ride it hard.
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Old 05-13-19, 12:51 PM
  #87  
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Haters gonna hate, right?

Those of us who are old enough remember the days of “My dog’s better than your dog.” I was (and still am) sure that my dog was the best, period. But I figured out that no one needed to agree with me. Whether they agreed or argued, nothing changed.

My response to those who need to critique/ laugh / argue / “enlighten” is a patient smile and to say...

”You’re probably right.”
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Old 05-13-19, 01:40 PM
  #88  
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One of our local shops sells Giant bikes. Generally solid reliable and good value (I have a couple) but hardly awe inspiring. When the owner brought in a new younger mechanic he seemed totally uninterested in what I was looking for. Instead of getting upset, I pulled out my phone showed him some pictures of the most recent 60's project and I guess my enthusiasm and knowledge energized him into being helpful. Now he always asks about projects and has gained some insight into our hobby. Here we preach to the choir so to speak, in the world at large we have to sometimes explain our position. To @turtledove , have fun with your project and many more!

FWIW, I just spent $650 on restoring/rebuilding this old steel framed 3 speed. Some might call that foolish. I really don't care!

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Old 05-13-19, 01:42 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
I think the only difference today is that people actively look for conflict.
Whaddya mean, conflict?

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Old 05-13-19, 02:48 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by Sierra7 View Post
Turtledove: How about posting a photo of the bike that has been the subject of so much ridicule?

As for cyclists, in general I have to say they are generally speaking an unfriendly group. I can say this because though I cycle (for over 40 years now,) I also spend time walking on paved paths near my house. The only ******** on the trail are typically cyclists who want to go fast.

Though I love the modern bikes, I also love old steel. In my garage I have a well-used 1988 Fisher Montare XT in blue/white fade, a little-used 1987 Fisher Montare in red complete with old Phil Wood hubs, Magura levers, and Suntour roller-cam brake, and a 1987 Schwinn High Sierra with front and rear Suntour roller-cam brakes (!)

One thing I really don't like to see is someone who tries to make their old steel bike into a half-way modern bike (or Frankenbike.) I say leave it vintage, and ride it hard.
I posted it earlier but it got lost in the thread, here it is again! I'm waiting on my new seatpost and BB, and then gotta spray some frame saver before I can rebuild it....It's kind of a frankenbike, but since the brand is from a relatively unknown 90s parts maker in California, I've had no worries about changing it from its original vintage form. If it was anything else, yeah it'd hurt to try to modernise it. This thing has and will continue to be my primary form of bikepacking/XC riding!



Originally Posted by browngw View Post
One of our local shops sells Giant bikes. Generally solid reliable and good value (I have a couple) but hardly awe inspiring. When the owner brought in a new younger mechanic he seemed totally uninterested in what I was looking for. Instead of getting upset, I pulled out my phone showed him some pictures of the most recent 60's project and I guess my enthusiasm and knowledge energized him into being helpful. Now he always asks about projects and has gained some insight into our hobby. Here we preach to the choir so to speak, in the world at large we have to sometimes explain our position. To @turtledove , have fun with your project and many more!

FWIW, I just spent $650 on restoring/rebuilding this old steel framed 3 speed. Some might call that foolish. I really don't care!

My god that is one beautiful piece of art. Seriously, that's so gorgeous.
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Old 05-13-19, 04:15 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Ironfish653 View Post
Remember 1-1/4" steerers? Didn't think so.


Originally Posted by base2 View Post
I have one & a matching tandem fork with complete headset in good condition. Want it? Cost of shipping if interested. (PM)

Haven't had that frame in ~20 years. (Cracked chainstay)

Kept the fork for several years tho, a Paioli with gorgeous gold anodized legs and a purple ano Booster bridge. Had a 150mm Answer A-Tac stem to go with it.

Don't really remember what became of it.
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Old 05-13-19, 04:35 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
I think thereís quite a bit of ignorance being displayed above actually, and I frankly doubt your direct experience/comparisons with new bikes. Rather it reads like a defensive justification of preference and/or budget.
Having been fortunate enough to buy and ride some nice new and older bikes, I feel comfortable saying that all have their advantages and place. On a group ride where I want to keep up, I want every advantage. I like riding bikes that feel responsive.
Not everyone wants to fix up a used bike, and some modern approaches can be great for many riders. Wider tire clearances, weight, discs...they all have their purpose. 11sp and long rear cages make for some great shifting combinations.
Because you chose not to spend it doesnít make it ďdumbĒ, and unless youíve ridden a whole bunch of newer bikes, in different niches, you really are being so broad as to be saying nothing at all.
Old bikes can be great and so can new ones.
There is no defensive justification here. As someone else said, I'd rather that the secret about some older bikes didn't get out, so that would keep them cheap and plentiful.

And who is talking about fixing up? That isn't even necessary half the time.

Yes, there are some very good new bikes out there, generally costing at least 1k for the frame alone (just a rough number), and upwards from there with full builds and whatnot. That a vintage race or touring (or find the matching category) bike will probably be just the slightest bit less effective (if that), is what it is. But what is funny/annoying is Joe Schmoe with his new bike thinking he has something drastically superior or "better" than something vintage.

That a good vintage steel frame is probably going to end up lasting longer, and that is may very well have been beautifully built by an artisan, is just icing on the cake.

My original point is that it's annoying when people comment about things they know nothing about (see the example of a bike mechanic talking down about a guy's 90's Colnago). That is what is 'dumb.' Speaking from a place of ignorance.

Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Your second point doesnt really help make the first any better.
Calling people who prefer new bikes dumb is, to me, just as annoying as c&v people being viewed as dumb for wanting old bikes.
And while some older frames may be better than new frames, it would be tough for me to agree with "we know that they are simply better than most modern stuff"because that isnt accurate.
Not saying modern frames are better either.
There were great frames, mediocre frames, and cheap frames back in the day.
Same goes for now.
Maybe we have a reading comprehension issue here? Nobody said that any person who prefers new bikes is dumb. Not even close.

Again, we are talking about those people (see examples posted here) that see some steel, downtube shifters, non-aero cables, toe clips... and immediately assume you are one some dangerous junk.

And yes, if a condescending person is on an "entry level" road bike, you can pretty much rest assured that my lousy Tange 1 framed bike from 1986, that was sitting in someone's back yard for 20 plus years, is a better bike. It was built better, will hold up better, and will perform well enough that whichever bike has the better rider will go faster.


Originally Posted by JaccoW View Post
Books, television, the internet and phones all ruined young people and the world at some point in history.
Another argument that I love. Since all previous generations complained about subsequent generations, none of these complaints are valid. It's all just senseless complaining...

But it's not. They were right. Those that warned about television (honestly, I don't of anyone complaining about books, aside from some backwards groups of people) having a detrimental effect on society were right. Those pointing out that the internet would only exacerbate these effects were right. Those seeing that phones are having harmful effects are absolutely right. Those that say this current generation couldn't manage to do what the "Greatest Generation" did are likely right.

Have you studied history at all? Have you worked with Millennials at all? Spent time around kids lately?

That movie Wall-E nailed it on the head. Just because the decline has been slow enough and steady enough that the television bashers won't be around to see their prediction come true, doesn't mean it isn't happening.
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Old 05-13-19, 04:37 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
I get ejected from a lot of group rides. I'm not even doing those rides. They come by going 1mph faster than I am and there's a hundred of them. And as much as going directly off the back seems to be the best course, when there are a hundred bodies making a draft it pulls you along. Often there will be someone who wants to talk about the old iron. They know nothing and less than nothing but take an interest. Nice. Then someone else on ride sees dt shifters and exposed cables and freaks out. OMG toe clips. Those things kill. Only serial killers ride that stuff. And someone acting authoritative with tattoos tells me to leave.

Conversely I'll pass groups traveling 1mph slower. Usually there will be guys at front who jump on my wheel. No one ever takes a turn at front, all on my draft. Then someone sees a 5 speed freewheel and a spare tubular and you can hear the ensuing panic. It makes them afraid. My old bikes are going to explode and kill them. Sometimes they just fade, sometimes some steroid dude will ride up to me and tell me I should have warned them. Warned them of what? That the old bike has been safe for 69 years? That the rider twice their age has never gone down in a group? When they hear the bike was born before their parents were more panic ensues. And the solo ride resumes.

Two clubs of which I am technically a life member won't let me ride with them even momentarily and unintentionally. Carbon and brifters and clipless or get away from us. And current members rocking in saddle and weaving down the road in 50x11 look so dangerous to me I want out anyway.
This is exactly what I was talking about. The people you describe are real, as is their ignorance. But it's 2019, so everyone's opinion matters, right? Everyone has a "voice."

You seem like a good guy, and you can ride with me anytime (but I admit to taking the easy way out and using clinchers).
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Old 05-13-19, 04:51 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo View Post
Maybe we have a reading comprehension issue here? Nobody said that any person who prefers new bikes is dumb. Not even close.
From earlier...
Originally Posted by robertorolfo View Post
People are dumb. People spend more money on a new bike that is inferior in every way to a "vintage" bike that can be purchased used for less.
So you didn't say that a person who prefers a new bike is dumb, because that is apparently different from saying people are dumb and then ranting about people who spend more money on a new inferior bike compared to an older one.


Looks like a difference without distinction to me, but ok I guess he issue is that I can't comprehend your words.
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Old 05-13-19, 05:04 PM
  #95  
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Subtlty & nuance.

Both of his posts mean different things.

A person is smart. People are dumb.
On a seperate & unrelated note: People sometimes blow more money on lesser bikes that are newer. Not because of the new bikes merits, but because of the new bikes age.

Not unlike the 40-something that trades in his 42 year-old for 2, 21 year-olds. I think we can all see that the new models *may* not be the best long term plan.

Just throwin' it out there...
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Old 05-13-19, 06:07 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo View Post
Another argument that I love. Since all previous generations complained about subsequent generations, none of these complaints are valid. It's all just senseless complaining...

But it's not. They were right. Those that warned about television (honestly, I don't of anyone complaining about books, aside from some backwards groups of people) having a detrimental effect on society were right. Those pointing out that the internet would only exacerbate these effects were right. Those seeing that phones are having harmful effects are absolutely right. Those that say this current generation couldn't manage to do what the "Greatest Generation" did are likely right.

Have you studied history at all? Have you worked with Millennials at all? Spent time around kids lately?

That movie Wall-E nailed it on the head. Just because the decline has been slow enough and steady enough that the television bashers won't be around to see their prediction come true, doesn't mean it isn't happening.
Never did I mention that it is invalid. In fact I would say every single one of them was right.

But they were also wrong.

Every new idea or technology solves the problems of the old world but also introduces new problems of its own. As humans we are often not aware of that and will internalize what we grew up with as the norm.

People thought books were a bad influence because they thought it would suck in people and limit social interaction. Which was true.
But it also enabled people to spread and talk about ideas a lot faster than before.

Television both broadens your world and breeds apathy by serving your lazy impulses.

The internet brings out the darkest parts of humanity but also some of the brightest.
It opens up your world and enables the both of us to talk to each other and discuss things we both like; classic bikes.

I hope we never have to manage what the 'Greatest Generation' did. Or anyone after us.
You know what they also call them? The 'World War II generation'. They gave up their youth to fight for what they thought was important but we also could have handled their return a lot better. Stories like Isaac Woodard are sickening but also not that rare in that era looking back at it now.

I'm 32. I fall within the Generation Y, aka Millenial group. So yeah I have worked with them. As for kids nowadays... they are mostly spoiled brats if the parents didn't raise them right. The vast majority are prefectly normal and nice kids.
I have also worked with plenty of generations before that. Plenty of my colleagues are in the Gen-X or Babyboomer generation. Boomers either love to work and cannot stop or they cannot wait to retire and are sitting on their ass until time runs out. Or something in between, the world is not black and white and everyone who does try to sell you that world view probably has ulterior motives. But I digress.

A lot of the things that seemed to be important to Boomers don't really interest me.
I'm not going to buy a house if the housing market is growing to price levels that are unsustainable. I won't be the fool that buys one now at a price that is way too high only to lose big money on it in a few years when I want to move into something a bit bigger.
Nor am I interested in owning a car if bicycles and public transport can get me there just as fast at a fraction of the cost and with a lower impact on the environment. I'll rent a car when I really need it.
And no, I won't stay loyal to a company who has also shown I'll be the first one to be thrown out once the market turns down. Work to live and all that.
I enjoy the taste of meat but I would rather eat less of it if it means less pollution and less suffering. I like good food and that doesn't have to mean meat all the time.

Every older generation has a right to complain about the younger ones because they don't adhere to the same things they think are important.
Just as every younger generation is allowed to look back at older generations and vow to never make the same mistakes they made... and promptly make new ones of their own.

Some people look down on old bikes because some things are objectively worse in a modern setting. But everything is a product of its time. It solved a problem that is often no longer there. Bikes and people are no exception.
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Old 05-13-19, 06:13 PM
  #97  
JaccoW
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Originally Posted by browngw View Post
I love that chainguard and the paint. <3
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Old 05-13-19, 07:02 PM
  #98  
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I have 2 mountain bikes and a gravel bike. The mountain bikes are both pushing 20+ years old. One is a Land Gear (I can't even find info on this brand) that I bought when I was stationed in Japan back in the early 2000's. The other is a rigid 1996(ish) Trek that I picked up at Goodwill for $20. I just had the Trek overhauled and it rides like a dream. The Land Gear is like an old friend. It's the bike that got me started riding, and I still ride it about 50-60% of the time. Yeah, they're old and not state of the art, but I love them both. If anyone has a problem with my old rides, so be it. I'm not riding to impress them, I ride because it's a blast.
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Old 05-13-19, 07:28 PM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by BFisher View Post
It can take a lot of insecurity to feel the need to bash another person's material possessions unsolicited. Just keep that in mind.

As far as bike shops, if one is at a place where they can turn away customers like that, then they must be doing something right business-wise.

The truth is, the LBS is just another option - sometimes a good one, sometimes a poor one. Most people with a decent understanding of how bikes work, and some basic tools, can enjoy years of wrenching and riding without ever setting foot in a bike shop. For technical advice beyond one's own knowledge, just read Sheldon Brown's website, and use the Googles.

Just ride on.

BTW, got any pics of the bike?

BTW, You Tube is invaluable also.
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Old 05-13-19, 07:29 PM
  #100  
Mogens
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Iíve yet to come across any negativity towards my older bikes, but then I canít say that I congregate with cyclists very often; I mostly just do my own thing. But to the extent that Iíve had interaction with people about my 1981 Bianchi, itís been very positive. I get kudos for it pretty regularly. I rode it on a century last year and people seemed happy to see it. Though Iím sure some people thought it was pretty quaint. For me though it absolutely started as a budgetary thing. I looked at prices for decent road bikes and was astonished to find that the mid range stuff seems to begin around $1200. So I went on Craigslist, remembered my dad lusting after Bianchis when I was a kid and was very lucky to find one that afternoon. Altogether I spent about $400 on the bike and various upgrades. Iíve since rebuilt two Trek multitracks, and those are nice too for getting around town, going to the market, etc. Today was gorgeous here in Wisconsin and droves of people were out on bikes, and it looked like most of them were on rigid hybrids and mountain bikes from the 90s from what I can tell.

Maybe it's a regional thing, are people rude where you live?
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