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What's the deal with people looking down on old frames?

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What's the deal with people looking down on old frames?

Old 05-13-19, 07:40 PM
  #101  
clongwill
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Randy, I just picked-up 2 Sekine's. One larger (too big for me) and in nice condition. The other smaller (too small for me) and needs maintenance. I like your web page.

Do you have the link to the '87 Sekine catalog? I had it but don't know where I stashed it on my computer.

Chris
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Old 05-13-19, 08:03 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by JaccoW View Post
Nah, that has been always been a gliding scale. At some point in your life it is not that you hate a certain generation, you hate young people and the weird things they do that make it hard for you to understand the world.
The exact same complaints anyone can have about young people nowadays can be found being expressed by people your age when you were young.
Books, television, the internet and phones all ruined young people and the world at some point in history.

What you said ties in to why old 1980's mountainbikes are gone or expensive.
They all go through a cycle: New > Cool > common > outdated > old > vintage > classic > museumworthy.

Most of us around here would look at people riding around on penny-farthings as either cool for keeping a museumpiece alive or obnoxious hipsters.
Many will at the very least realize restoring them to their original state is not for the faint hearted. You're keeping something alive that is getting increasingly more difficult to find parts for.

And that last thing is exactly what your bike mechanic might see when he looks at your bike.
Take your business elsewhere. There is bound to be a place that does appreciate working on older bikes.
I have a 1878 Rudge roadster penny farthing. It draws a crowd when I ride it. We have stopped several little league games on our rides . One coach yelled to me to leave the park complex as I was a distraction to his team .
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Old 05-13-19, 08:13 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by JaccoW View Post
I love that chainguard and the paint. <3
The continuing story of this Belgian Royal Nord President can be found here Royal Nord President circa 1967
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Old 05-13-19, 08:15 PM
  #104  
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Is this what you're talking about?


An early 90s diamondback with 700cx group. Built to last.
Resto for my brother in law after 20+ years idle.
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Old 05-14-19, 08:02 AM
  #105  
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I think I have Bio-Pace on two bikes. One because it came with it and the other because that what was in the shop with the right ratios when it needed a new crankset.

I had someone go off about Bio-Pace on me until I had to tell him it was reason #2 above. He still had to tell me how wonky it feels, etc. I switch between round and bio-pace and never notice, so they must have done something right.

Bottom line: I donít care whether itís bio-pace or not, so please spare me your diatribe on something you have never ridden for even a mile!

Maybe that will have to be my response. Or Iíll just say. ďOf course Iím quicker than you, I have Bio-Pace!Ē Ha!
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Old 05-14-19, 09:07 AM
  #106  
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Sekine and Miele catalogs. Hope it is a help.
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Old 05-14-19, 11:47 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by JaccoW View Post
Never did I mention that it is invalid. In fact I would say every single one of them was right.
But they were also wrong.
Every new idea or technology solves the problems of the old world but also introduces new problems of its own. As humans we are often not aware of that and will internalize what we grew up with as the norm.
People thought books were a bad influence because they thought it would suck in people and limit social interaction. Which was true.
But it also enabled people to spread and talk about ideas a lot faster than before.
Television both broadens your world and breeds apathy by serving your lazy impulses.
The internet brings out the darkest parts of humanity but also some of the brightest.
It opens up your world and enables the both of us to talk to each other and discuss things we both like; classic bikes...
These advancements all had/have the potential to be beneficial, but for one reason or another (that's a debate for another time and place), they have ended up doing more harm than good (with the exception of books).

Phones have taken the ills of television and the internet and now made them mobile and constant. It may seem like no big deal, because we have been able to deal with it so far, but the erosion will eventually catch up to us.
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Old 05-14-19, 02:33 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo View Post
These advancements all had/have the potential to be beneficial, but for one reason or another (that's a debate for another time and place), they have ended up doing more harm than good (with the exception of books).


Without things like movies or the internet, I wouldnt be able to post up this meme as a response to your comment since there would be no Big Lebowski...and no internet for you to ironically bemoan technology on. What a loss that would be!
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Old 05-14-19, 04:07 PM
  #109  
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"Wow, look at those chrome wheels." That's what I heard from a fellow club rider when he saw my polished aluminum wheels on my '85 'dale. His carbon wonder looked like a ugly tank to me but to each his own. I love the classic functional artwork that older bikes have. I try not to be critical of guys riding $2000 carbon wonders. They ride and that's the important thing. Ride with pride my friend whatever stead you prefer. Love to see pictures of your cherished friend when you can.
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Old 05-14-19, 04:39 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Without things like movies or the internet, I wouldnt be able to post up this meme as a response to your comment since there would be no Big Lebowski...and no internet for you to ironically bemoan technology on. What a loss that would be!
True, but we also wouldn't have people like the Cardassians, a complete s-show for a political landscape, a generation of kids/young adults that are socially awkward (if not outright inept)...

Watch the opening 5 minutes of "Idiocracy." The bad outweighs the good, and by a fair margin.
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Old 05-14-19, 04:51 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo View Post
True, but we also wouldn't have people like the Cardassians, a complete s-show for a political landscape, a generation of kids/young adults that are socially awkward (if not outright inept)...

Watch the opening 5 minutes of "Idiocracy." The bad outweighs the good, and by a fair margin.
Without the internet, my 8 and 12 yo kids also wouldnt already know things about history and society that I learned in high school and as an adult.

The internet has allowed a freer flow of information and ideas that has allowed anyone wanting to learn about anything to do so almost instantaneously.


If people around you aren't able to interact with others, it's because their parents and support structure while growing up failed them. It isnt because of tv and the internet.

I mentor at risk teens and we ride bikes 3x per week. Many use tv and video games as an escape, and even more have used tv and video games as a way to pass time instead of daycare/camps.
I don't blame the internet and tv for any of that. I really don't blame the parents either because situations ofteb times force events to take place.
But between the two things, parents and technology, I definitely wouldn't blame technology.
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Old 05-14-19, 07:50 PM
  #112  
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Old MTB's like this are so strong

Originally Posted by Aussie Scott View Post

An early 90s diamondback with 700cx group. Built to last.
Resto for my brother in law after 20+ years idle.
I do up, give away and repair bikes for the less fortunate in my small town. These 80s/90s steel bikes are so rewarding to work on. Honestly a young lad rides his everywhere, over everything and into everything then leaves it at my place when its broken. Invariably it can be fixed, although I have removed any opportunity for front derailleur use now. Centre chain ring it sits in permanently. I am particularly fond of no suspension, I am not interested or skilled enough for that. I struggle with uncared for bikes of this millennium I get given as rust/stuffed suspension and cheap weird design things in the BB area do my head in. Mountain biking with full suspension is huge in NZ and less are road riding than ever before. Old MTB's are looked down on, to return to the thread starter, funny tho as most are ridden on the road or light trails. My 1985 Kuwahara Siera Grande is an absolute GEM with its biopace rings and would ride any day over my mates pogo stick MTB with a 1 x dinner plate gearing on anything except real MTB terrain
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Old 05-15-19, 09:51 AM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Without the internet, my 8 and 12 yo kids also wouldnt already know things about history and society that I learned in high school and as an adult.
The internet has allowed a freer flow of information and ideas that has allowed anyone wanting to learn about anything to do so almost instantaneously.
If people around you aren't able to interact with others, it's because their parents and support structure while growing up failed them. It isnt because of tv and the internet.
I mentor at risk teens and we ride bikes 3x per week. Many use tv and video games as an escape, and even more have used tv and video games as a way to pass time instead of daycare/camps.
I don't blame the internet and tv for any of that. I really don't blame the parents either because situations ofteb times force events to take place.
But between the two things, parents and technology, I definitely wouldn't blame technology.
I'm sure you are familiar with encyclopedias, no? They used to be a big business...

Anyway, again, I'm not saying that these technologies can't be used for good. They can, and very often are. I'm just saying that, anecdotal evidence aside, they have been an overall net negative, not a positive. Just use that fancy Google thing and you will find plenty of studies saying as much.
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Old 05-15-19, 11:58 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo View Post
I'm sure you are familiar with encyclopedias, no? They used to be a big business...

Anyway, again, I'm not saying that these technologies can't be used for good. They can, and very often are. I'm just saying that, anecdotal evidence aside, they have been an overall net negative, not a positive. Just use that fancy Google thing and you will find plenty of studies saying as much.
Yes, very familiar with encyclopedias. My house had 3 sets growing up and the info in them was limited in scope and breadth compared to what is immediately available to us online. There is simply no possible way anyone could argue that the information in a set of home use print encyclopedias is anywhere close to as detailed and complete as the internet.

As for finding plenty of studies that show the internet and television has been a net negative...I admittedly havent googled for that before since it just sounds so absurd. I also havent googled 'dog monkey' before, but am confident that both your claim and a picture of a dog monkey both exist.
Im also confident I could find plenty of studies, actual credible ones, that show the free flow of information since TV and the Internet came to be has had a net positive effect.

You mention my anecdotal evidence as if that isnt valid since its a small sample size...but that is actually my point- the sample sizes should be small and i think its a mistake to aggregate all those small sample sizes to then try and extrapolate a finding that fits your narrative. The sample size should be small because as I mentioned- its up to parents and the support structure that helps raise each child to ensure the child uses the technology in the best way possible. If that isnt happening, its the fault of the parents and support structure, rather than the fault of a source of free flowing ideas and information.
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Old 05-15-19, 12:19 PM
  #115  
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The seeds of our demise were planted well before the internet. But it will definitely speed it up.
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Old 05-15-19, 12:45 PM
  #116  
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Back to our original programming . . . .

I have yet to have my Olde Phart machines ridiculed or mocked. Sometimes people ask about what I am riding and surprised to hear that the frame is anywhere from 35 to 50+ years old, depending on what I'm riding that day. I have had plenty of positive comments, including a guy at a rest stop on en event ride go out of his way to track me down (I was by the food, of course) to say he thought I had the coolest bike on the ride.

Mostly, though, other riders wave or say "hi" and we go our separate ways.

However, if I did get snarky comments, I would never try to speed up and drop the. I think doing so is a great idea, but I am old, fat and slow, and I do enough things to embarrass myself without going out of my way to add more.
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Old 05-15-19, 03:34 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Yes, very familiar with encyclopedias. My house had 3 sets growing up and the info in them was limited in scope and breadth compared to what is immediately available to us online. There is simply no possible way anyone could argue that the information in a set of home use print encyclopedias is anywhere close to as detailed and complete as the internet.

As for finding plenty of studies that show the internet and television has been a net negative...I admittedly havent googled for that before since it just sounds so absurd. I also havent googled 'dog monkey' before, but am confident that both your claim and a picture of a dog monkey both exist.
Im also confident I could find plenty of studies, actual credible ones, that show the free flow of information since TV and the Internet came to be has had a net positive effect.

You mention my anecdotal evidence as if that isnt valid since its a small sample size...but that is actually my point- the sample sizes should be small and i think its a mistake to aggregate all those small sample sizes to then try and extrapolate a finding that fits your narrative. The sample size should be small because as I mentioned- its up to parents and the support structure that helps raise each child to ensure the child uses the technology in the best way possible. If that isnt happening, its the fault of the parents and support structure, rather than the fault of a source of free flowing ideas and information.

First off, nobody is saying encyclopedias are more thorough than the internet, but you seem to imply that we were living in the dark ages prior to 1996 (or whenever the internet was "invented"). Almost makes you wonder how we managed to plan D-day, build the bomb, put a man on the moon... all without the internet!

And are you really trying to argue that looking up studies about the negative effects of the internet and smartphones is somehow extreme or absurd? Because if you look at the results, you will see that a lot of scholars and scientists have used their precious time to look into what you equate to a "dog monkey."

Lastly, your reliance on society to correct and police itself is an antiquated notion. It's not working. Look around! I see that you are in a state with fewer people than most neighborhoods around here (and yet you have two Senators), so perhaps your extrapolations onto our overall society might be lacking?
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Old 05-15-19, 04:51 PM
  #118  
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I donít know why peoples is always looking down on tv and the internets, but without Star Trek we wouldnít have the Cardassians.
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Old 05-15-19, 04:57 PM
  #119  
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I don't recall anyone ever making a negative comment about any of my older bikes?
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Old 05-15-19, 04:58 PM
  #120  
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I'm personally a "glass is half full" kind of guy and if you ask most people in the world they will say that the world now is better than 50 years ago.

The US is a small exception but then again it's kind of annoying coming down from the excess in resources and power that was available back in between post WWII and let's say the 80's.
Most cities in Western countries up until the 90's were ****holes where nobody sane wanted to live. The best thing you could do was bulldozer a couple of residential areas and put a giant highway straight through the city center. /s
Whereas nowadays the cities have cleaned up significantly and people are moving to the city again while crime is moving to smaller towns.

I live in a country that's less than a third of the land area of the State of New York but with a similar number of people (17.1 million) living there. We are a bit more spread out so the maximum population density is slightly lower than Queens.
And in some regards, we were living in the dark ages before 1996. But that might be my age showing at a 1987 birth year.

P.s.
Here is a dog monkey:
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Old 05-15-19, 05:04 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by jethin View Post
I don’t know why peoples is always looking down on tv and the internets, but without Star Trek we wouldn’t have the Cardassians.
​​​​​Lol, I was thinking the same thing.

Cardassians:


Kardashians:
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Old 05-15-19, 07:58 PM
  #122  
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...the only insult I ever got on an olde bike of mine was when I posted a picture here.
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Old 05-16-19, 10:13 AM
  #123  
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At the risk of continuing this off-topic nonsense, somehow I LOVE this dog-monkey. I was expecting to be horrified, but he looks like just the guy you need if you're trapped in a maze and trying to get your baby brother back from a flamboyant goblin king.

Originally Posted by JaccoW View Post
...
P.s.
Here is a dog monkey:

(Without the movies we wouldn't have The Labyrinth, and that would be a shame.)
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Old 05-16-19, 01:09 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo View Post
First off, nobody is saying encyclopedias are more thorough than the internet, but you seem to imply that we were living in the dark ages prior to 1996 (or whenever the internet was "invented"). Almost makes you wonder how we managed to plan D-day, build the bomb, put a man on the moon... all without the internet!

And are you really trying to argue that looking up studies about the negative effects of the internet and smartphones is somehow extreme or absurd? Because if you look at the results, you will see that a lot of scholars and scientists have used their precious time to look into what you equate to a "dog monkey."

Lastly, your reliance on society to correct and police itself is an antiquated notion. It's not working. Look around! I see that you are in a state with fewer people than most neighborhoods around here (and yet you have two Senators), so perhaps your extrapolations onto our overall society might be lacking?
If it seemed I was implying we lived in dark ages before AOL gave so many homes access to the internet, that wasnt my intent. My point has been that the free flow of information is a benefit and this exists because of the internet. When i did research projects for school back in the early 90s, i would look up the same subject in 3 different encyclopedias and then look up ancillary topics to better understand what the main articles meant. It was a massive undertaking compared to how readily available the same information is now. That, to me, is a huge benefit. Easier access to info can be life changing.

As for my point about if the internet is a net positive or a net negative, I was simply saying that for every study/article you provide showing the internet is bad, i could provide a study/article that shows its good.

As for society correcting and policing itself...i dont know what to say to this, really. Ill try though.
- As a society, we select our government and choose what laws to create and follow thru both direct and indirect representation. Essentially, we are policing ourselves thru that process.
- I live in a state with about the median state population, so while my experiences here arent indicative of life everywhere, its the same as how your experiences arent indicitive of life everywhere.
- Your neighborhoods dont have 3+ million people. All of Queens isnt even that. I get the point you are trying to make, but im not sure it is an important point.
- I lived half my life in the Chicagoland area with 10 million others. I am well aware of dense urban and suburban challenges. I am also well aware of all the benefits of such locations and how technology has increased the experience of living in and visiting these locations.
- I see you know how the Senate and House works. Super. Really not sure why you felt it necessary to mention Iowa has 2 Senators in an obviously negative way since, you know, thats the point of the Senate.



Pretty sure I am out on this topic at this point since its gotten to the point where the number of Senators is being complained about.
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Old 05-16-19, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by JaccoW View Post
​​​​​Cardassians:

Kardashians:
My spelling was intentional. I always write Cardassians to provide the truly enlightened among us (aka DS9 fans) to identify themselves. You two are now officially in my good graces.

All hail Gul Dukat!
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