Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Correct 700c rims for 1973 Paramount?

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Correct 700c rims for 1973 Paramount?

Old 05-24-19, 09:00 AM
  #26  
Classtime 
Senior Member
 
Classtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,550

Bikes: 69 PX-10, 81 Medici, 84 Turbo, 87 IM, 2010 Milwaukee Road, 2011 RS

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 544 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 18 Posts
For new, shiny, tubular rims, I think you have to go Major Toms from Velocity. The Major Toms will work really well with 27 or wider tires but not so well with 25 or narrower.
Classtime is offline  
Old 05-24-19, 09:05 AM
  #27  
ThermionicScott 
hungry
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 18,424

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2029 Post(s)
Liked 99 Times in 82 Posts
Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
For new, shiny, tubular rims, I think you have to go Major Toms from Velocity. The Major Toms will work really well with 27 or wider tires but not so well with 25 or narrower.
Mavic Open Pro T is available in silver, just not shiny. Bet they'd look pretty good if someone took the time to polish them.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498

Last edited by ThermionicScott; 05-24-19 at 09:10 AM.
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 05-24-19, 10:35 AM
  #28  
Salamandrine 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,893

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1718 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 37 Times in 25 Posts
The wisdom of the interwebs says the original tubular rims were Mavic Montlery Championnat du Monde. I seem to recall that Super Champion were sometimes spec'ed instead. Don't know if this is correct. Before my time.


VeloBase.com - Component: Mavic Montlery Championnat du Monde



RE clinchers: The Weinmann 210 clincher rims were mediocre at best, IMO. Not horrible though, for a non-hollow rim. Concaves were a lot better, but not really correct for the early 70s. Of the new production, the Sun M13II look the most like real vintage rims to me, because they look just like Rigida rims once you peel off the stickers. TB14 are reminiscent of a Super Champ Gentleman or Mavic something, but if you look closely the extra depth and counterweight make it clear that they are a retro-ish rim, not real vintage. Close enough though.


This might be a good time to mention that the old Schwinn OEM clincher tires made by National used to have a very good reputation. Best clincher tire of the 70s IMO. Michelin Elan were not my favorite, to say the least. Specialized tires came out in the late 70s and pretty much drove everyone else out of the market for a time, but they were not that great. Turbos were neat and light but would only last a week or two, and they were expensive.
Salamandrine is offline  
Old 05-24-19, 10:36 AM
  #29  
Kactus 
Senior Member
 
Kactus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,816

Bikes: 1962 Schwinn Paramount P12, 1971 Schwinn Paramount P13-9, 1974 Motobecane Champion Team, 1976 Masi Gran Criterium, 1978 Raleigh Professional

Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 330 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by jeirvine View Post
Thanks for the link. Any idea what the stock tubular rims would have been? "Schwinn approved aluminum alloy". Or was there no specified maker?
I think it probably varied based on available supply. Being that '73 was during the 'bike-boom' years, they were probably scrambling to find adequate supplies. I'm not exactly sure when they started using "Schwinn Approved" rims but '73 - '74 sounds about right.

When I bought my '71 P13 it came with wood lined Weinmann's that I believe to be original to the bike.
__________________
Life... is a state of mind.
Kactus is offline  
Old 05-24-19, 11:41 AM
  #30  
squirtdad
Senior Member
 
squirtdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 6,123

Bikes: 90/91 De Rosa, '84 Team Miyata, '82 nishiski,

Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 810 Post(s)
Liked 43 Times in 32 Posts
you could do a WTB on wheels. I know one person on the forums who got a beautiful chrome paramount and it had 2 pairs of wheels with tubular rims.....
__________________
Looking for Team Miyata F&F 58cm
squirtdad is offline  
Old 05-24-19, 11:43 AM
  #31  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 6,524

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pederson racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 78 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 536 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 19 Times in 19 Posts
Originally Posted by Kactus View Post
I think it probably varied based on available supply. Being that '73 was during the 'bike-boom' years, they were probably scrambling to find adequate supplies. I'm not exactly sure when they started using "Schwinn Approved" rims but '73 - '74 sounds about right.

When I bought my '71 P13 it came with wood lined Weinmann's that I believe to be original to the bike.
I definitely remember the tubular Weinmanns on Paramounts around that time, and I think some of the hubs had an extra set of "spoke" holes so double the usual #.
dddd is offline  
Old 05-24-19, 05:33 PM
  #32  
63rickert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,067
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 486 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 20 Times in 17 Posts
There were always choices when buying a Paramount. Paramount room had about everything that existed. If they were out they checked with Oscar Wastyn. They did have a large stock of Weinmann wood fills. I remember both Montlhery and Super Champ on fresh 70s Paramounts but not certain year by year. The Cinelli hubs were gone by '73. Custom bikes are custom. Catalog correct is correct to the catalog. Buyers who wanted something else were almost always accommodated.
63rickert is offline  
Old 05-25-19, 06:00 PM
  #33  
Olympianrider
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Wow, thanks for the suggestions!

It makes me realize how much I appreciate the expertise in this community. You’ve all given me a few things to look up. I’ve learned a few things, too.

Here’s the conclusion I draw. There are many good reasons to run a roadbike on 700c rims these days, and since they weren’t offered originally on the Paramount, at least as factory equipment, I’m free to pick pretty much anything that might have been available at the time – or something else that looks just like it. So highly polished aluminum, box rims, non-machined sides.

The idea that the particular design of the original rim -- the Weinmann Concave (I always wondered what they were called) -- is not all that suited to rough and tough roads is another good reason to go non-original.

Those of you who mentioned the CR18 Sun rims, you’re absolutely right. I have a set of the CR18 Sun rims on my daily rider, a 1972 Swiss Cilo in full-Campy trim. The thing is, whenever I bring it in to my local bike shop mechanic, he looks at those big modern-looking decals, wrinkles his nose, harrumphs and says those don’t look right. I dunno, I’m not bothered, I mean the rest of the rim looks right, and they ride perfectly, as they should, and I think they look fine, but it’s enough to give a poor guy a complex.

So right now, for new rims, I am leaning toward the Velo Orange RAID rims – at least they have a much smaller sticker. But before I pull the trigger, I’m going to do a pretty thorough search on all the other rims mentioned. Looks like some NOS vintage rims aren’t that much more expensive than the new ones.

Tubular? No, not for me. I like nice, long rides, and I can just imagine getting a flat 20 miles from nowhere.

Oh, and I need to figure out how to post up pictures. How on earth do you do that? I’ve had a few problems trying to do this in the past – is there a link that provides detail? I’ve actually got a few vintage bikes – I’ve been riding them since before they were vintage. But yes, they really do exist, and there are pictures…

Erik Smith

Olympia, Wash.

Last edited by Olympianrider; 05-25-19 at 06:15 PM.
Olympianrider is offline  
Old 05-25-19, 06:24 PM
  #34  
Bandera 
~>~
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 5,803
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1057 Post(s)
Liked 75 Times in 47 Posts
Originally Posted by Olympianrider View Post
The idea that the particular design of the original rim -- the Weinmann Concave (I always wondered what they were called) -- is not all that suited to rough and tough roads is another good reason to go non-original.
As noted:

Hudson308;My '72 Paramount came with Weinmann AG Alesa 210 clinchers from the factory.
Yep, those OEM 27" rims were conventional for the period AL box section much like the Araya & Ukai Japanese versions that were coming into service at the time, not the later Weinmann "Concave" design.
Oddly enough the Concave Weinmanns were our go-to rebuild rims for club/touring riders for reliable low maintenance and sheer durability.
Many a quality machine "back when" was so re-equipped and with the tough pleasant riding Schwinn LeTour 27X 1 1/4 tires was good to go for the rough roads of the era.

That being said I don't build or ride with 40 YO rim or spoke tech, go w/ the recommendations above and have at it.

-Bandera
__________________
'74 Raleigh Internat'l. '77 Trek TX900 FG. '90 Vitus 979. '10 Merckx EMX3. '13 Soma Stanyan

Last edited by Bandera; 05-25-19 at 07:07 PM.
Bandera is offline  
Old 05-25-19, 06:48 PM
  #35  
Cougrrcj 
Over forty victim of Fate
 
Cougrrcj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 3,002

Bikes: A few...

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 295 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
One of my college dorm-mates back in '76-77 had several Paramounts - one race, one touring, and one tandem (for he and his fiancee) All of his wore tubulars. Then again, he was also a 'crit' rider, and would do double-Centuries just about every weekend for fun... Glue-on 'Tubies' seemed more trouble than they were worth, so my roomies and I rode on 27x1-1/8 Schwinn Super Record clinchers. In fact, that was one of the reasons I settled on my S-10S was because it had clinchers...
__________________
'75 Fuji S-10S bought new, 52k+ miles and still going!
'84 Univega Gran Tourismo
'84 Univega Viva Sport
'86 Miyata 710
'90 Schwinn Woodlands
Huffy MTB - for trips to corner store
MTB of questionable lineage aka 'Mutt Trail Bike'
Cougrrcj is offline  
Old 05-25-19, 06:57 PM
  #36  
Mad Honk 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 116

Bikes: Trek 770, Trek 760, Schwinn Peloton, Patelli Professional, Othon Ochsner

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Olimpianrider,
If you are interested I have a set of 27' rims from Wolber 630 rim size and will work with your needs. They cost me $30 at the local co-op and I would gladly send them to you for that plus shipping. Let me know, smiles, MH
Mad Honk is offline  
Old 05-25-19, 07:15 PM
  #37  
Steve Whitlatch 
Senior Member
 
Steve Whitlatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 3,628
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 519 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 4 Posts
The proper 700 c rim on A Paramount of that year was the Mavic Championnat Du Monde Montlery tubular rim with the knurled sidewall. I have seen these on several original Paramount P 13`s. That is what came on the racing frame anyway. You may have issues with brake reach putting 700 c on a P 10. I am putting Campagnolo NR brakes on my P 15 and I need drop down bolts on the long reach calipers to do it with 700 c. Even the center pull brakes that came with the bike would not reach 700 c wheels.

Last edited by Steve Whitlatch; 05-25-19 at 08:10 PM.
Steve Whitlatch is offline  
Old 05-26-19, 02:00 PM
  #38  
Barrettscv 
Have bike, will travel
 
Barrettscv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Posts: 12,033

Bikes: Ridley Helium SLX, Canyon Endurance SL, De Rosa Professional, Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra, Schwinn Paramount (1 painted, 1 chrome), Peugeot PX10, Serotta Nova X, Simoncini Cyclocross Special, Raleigh Roker, Pedal Force CG2 and CX2

Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 729 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by merziac View Post
So gotta say it, "pics or it didn't happen". As far as the wheels, Super Champion would be one of the main choices if you can find some NOS in the right hole count, they would likely be cost prohibitive for regular use.
Originally Posted by Kactus View Post
When I bought my '71 P13 it came with wood lined Weinmann's that I believe to be original to the bike.
I'm using Super Champion on one of two of my 1972 Paramounts. However, Weinmann wood filled tubular rims were standard OEM equipment on the race models.

Last edited by Barrettscv; 05-26-19 at 02:05 PM.
Barrettscv is offline  
Old 05-26-19, 05:11 PM
  #39  
63rickert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,067
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 486 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 20 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by Olympianrider View Post
Wow, thanks for the suggestions!

It makes me realize how much I appreciate the expertise in this community. Youíve all given me a few things to look up. Iíve learned a few things, too.

Hereís the conclusion I draw. There are many good reasons to run a roadbike on 700c rims these days, and since they werenít offered originally on the Paramount, at least as factory equipment, Iím free to pick pretty much anything that might have been available at the time Ė or something else that looks just like it. So highly polished aluminum, box rims, non-machined sides.

The idea that the particular design of the original rim -- the Weinmann Concave (I always wondered what they were called) -- is not all that suited to rough and tough roads is another good reason to go non-original.

Those of you who mentioned the CR18 Sun rims, youíre absolutely right. I have a set of the CR18 Sun rims on my daily rider, a 1972 Swiss Cilo in full-Campy trim. The thing is, whenever I bring it in to my local bike shop mechanic, he looks at those big modern-looking decals, wrinkles his nose, harrumphs and says those donít look right. I dunno, Iím not bothered, I mean the rest of the rim looks right, and they ride perfectly, as they should, and I think they look fine, but itís enough to give a poor guy a complex.

So right now, for new rims, I am leaning toward the Velo Orange RAID rims Ė at least they have a much smaller sticker. But before I pull the trigger, Iím going to do a pretty thorough search on all the other rims mentioned. Looks like some NOS vintage rims arenít that much more expensive than the new ones.

Tubular? No, not for me. I like nice, long rides, and I can just imagine getting a flat 20 miles from nowhere.

Oh, and I need to figure out how to post up pictures. How on earth do you do that? Iíve had a few problems trying to do this in the past Ė is there a link that provides detail? Iíve actually got a few vintage bikes Ė Iíve been riding them since before they were vintage. But yes, they really do exist, and there are picturesÖ

Erik Smith

Olympia, Wash.
You're on right track. The Velo Orange rims are very good, straight, tough, and now reasonably priced. I've had a set six years and just no problems. Settled for them when it was realized there was no perfect clincher rim for a 1958 bike - unless a Mavic Criterium in good shape could be located. Or maybe the last clean Constrictor rims. At first it bothered me that the new rim is just taller than the old ones were. Did not take long to adjust. If a millimeter or two of height really matters to you, or is even something you see at all, the Pacenti is the lowest, or the lowest looking. If I were designing rims myself they would be just about same as Velo Orange or Pacenti.

The Schwinn LeTour tires have been mentioned a few times. Made by National/Panasonic. New skinwalls made by Panasonic are just the same color as in 1973. A Compass or even a Pasela will look just right.
63rickert is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Micheal Blue
Eastern Canada
1
02-20-12 08:55 AM
brokenp87
Bicycle Mechanics
26
12-13-11 08:12 PM
bakedfish
Mountain Biking
0
06-26-10 08:45 AM
Mr. Z
Introductions
2
12-01-08 12:00 AM
Late2theroad
Road Cycling
3
08-26-08 03:10 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.