Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Carlton frame

Old 05-22-19, 06:25 PM
  #1  
keidal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 295
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Carlton frame

Hello, did any Carlton frame have curved seat stays please ?
keidal is offline  
Old 05-22-19, 09:10 PM
  #2  
Pcampeau
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts

Originally Posted by keidal View Post
Hello, did any Carlton frame have curved seat stays please ?
Do you mean wrapped like this? If so, then yes. This is a Franco Suisse model.
Pcampeau is offline  
Old 05-22-19, 09:20 PM
  #3  
Pcampeau
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
There is also a model called the Cobra which had (I think) a downward arc for the length of the stay. Not sure which years had this and I suppose I could be mistaken. Sorry I do not have a picture.

Last edited by Pcampeau; 05-22-19 at 09:25 PM.
Pcampeau is offline  
Old 05-23-19, 12:17 AM
  #4  
keidal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 295
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Thank you very much, I had forgotten the Cobra model but I can't remember when it was available, presumably perhaps the 1970's era ?
keidal is offline  
Old 05-23-19, 09:12 AM
  #5  
due ruote 
Senior Member
 
due ruote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,691
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 489 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times in 12 Posts
There’s a Carlton group on Flickr. Maybe check that out.
due ruote is offline  
Old 05-23-19, 09:57 AM
  #6  
SoreFeet
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Sure did...not exactly sure the model. My 64 was a real sweet ride how is your fork? Do you have the nicely swept out tips?

Honesty I miss that frame, rode it fixie up a huge climb and that frame was so comfy. It had a 58/48 chainring combo with cottered cranks...Williams brand...I just was not man enough to drive it.
SoreFeet is offline  
Old 05-25-19, 08:08 AM
  #7  
keidal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 295
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanks,
I've had a look on Carlton Group Flickr photos - all 600+ but not one curly stay in sight.
I've now bought the bike and it has rear brake cable clips on the top tube, singleWilliams chainwheel - suggesting perhaps 1950's [?] and also, it appears to have a chromed frame.
Now waiting to take delivery.
keidal is offline  
Likes For keidal:
Old 05-25-19, 08:57 AM
  #8  
juvela
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 8,117
Mentioned: 213 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1619 Post(s)
Liked 30 Times in 27 Posts
Originally Posted by keidal View Post
Thanks,
I've had a look on Carlton Group Flickr photos - all 600+ but not one curly stay in sight.
I've now bought the bike and it has rear brake cable clips on the top tube, singleWilliams chainwheel - suggesting perhaps 1950's [?] and also, it appears to have a chromed frame.
Now waiting to take delivery.
-----

Looking forward to following along.

Please post an update when you have the machine to hand.

Does anyone know who produced vibrant stays? Were they done to order for the individual manufacturer? In the case of Carlton it would of course be moot since they were TI.

-----
juvela is offline  
Old 05-25-19, 03:31 PM
  #9  
bertinjim 
Senior Member
 
bertinjim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 966

Bikes: 1960s Bertin C37, 1970s Bertin C 37

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
keidal-

The curved seat stays and wavey chainstays were produced on special order by Reynolds in 531 and exclusively for Hetchins. Details here: Hetchins curly stays, vibrant stays, hellenic stays
bertinjim is offline  
Old 05-25-19, 06:01 PM
  #10  
keidal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 295
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
keidal is offline  
Old 05-26-19, 04:33 AM
  #11  
keidal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 295
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
The curvature of the Carlton Cobra seat stays appears to my old eyes, to be different to those of the Hetchins, so perhaps Reynolds made different patterns for different manufacturers ? The Carlton stays appear to be more "vertical" at the top and the curve more pronounced on the bottom section on the Hetchins.
keidal is offline  
Old 05-26-19, 01:06 PM
  #12  
non-fixie 
Shifting is fun!
 
non-fixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Holland, NL
Posts: 7,725

Bikes: Yes, please.

Mentioned: 190 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1056 Post(s)
Liked 40 Times in 32 Posts
Beautiful!
__________________
Reasons to be cheerful!
non-fixie is offline  
Old 05-26-19, 04:00 PM
  #13  
bertinjim 
Senior Member
 
bertinjim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 966

Bikes: 1960s Bertin C37, 1970s Bertin C 37

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
keidal-

They likely would not be Reynolds stays. The frame sticker is for TI Tru-Wel 205 hi-tensile tubing so it is probable that the stays are as well. Most unusual. Perhaps try the Carlton Cycles of Worksop at Facebook?
bertinjim is offline  
Old 05-26-19, 04:07 PM
  #14  
mpetry912
experienced
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bainbridge Island, WA
Posts: 96

Bikes: Dinucci Allez 2.0, Richard Sachs, Alex Singer, Serotta, Masi GC, Raleigh Pro Mk.1, Hetchins, etc

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
That's a cool old bike especially in original paint ! Different than Hetchins, but no doubt done in the hope of shock absorption.

Very nice, thank you for posting that, a rare bird.

Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA USA
mpetry912 is offline  
Old 05-26-19, 04:48 PM
  #15  
keidal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 295
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Thank you for your comments. This is another photograph supplied by the seller and I'm told that the bicycle belonged to the father since it is thought, from the 1950's period.
I have been unable to find any official Carlton information on this Cobra, apart from a reference to Reynolds tubing and a chromium plated frame.
I haven't been able to locate the Carlton Group, except to look at dozens of Carlton Cobra frames / bicycles, all of which have straight seat stays.
I'm wondering therefore if this frame is quite rare and I'm pleased to have been given the opportunity to acquire it.
I hope that it is of some interest to everyone.
keidal is offline  
Old 05-26-19, 06:51 PM
  #16  
juvela
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 8,117
Mentioned: 213 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1619 Post(s)
Liked 30 Times in 27 Posts
-----

The forum had a recent thread on a frame constructed of Tru-Wel.

Cannot now recall the marque.

Perhaps another reader will remember it...

There was some discussion of the tubing.

A date was given for close of operation.

---

Edit -

recalled a bit -

it was a Brit unknown from the '50's and was never identified

-----

Last edited by juvela; 05-26-19 at 06:59 PM. Reason: addition
juvela is offline  
Old 05-27-19, 01:32 AM
  #17  
keidal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 295
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
keidal is offline  
Old 05-27-19, 01:41 AM
  #18  
keidal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 295
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
keidal is offline  
Old 05-27-19, 01:46 AM
  #19  
keidal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 295
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
keidal is offline  
Old 05-27-19, 01:51 AM
  #20  
keidal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 295
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
keidal is offline  
Old 05-27-19, 06:37 AM
  #21  
rhm
multimodal commuter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,076

Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...

Mentioned: 438 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1538 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 11 Posts
That is very cool bike! I don't think I've seen that model before.

Those are not the first generation of Weinmann centerpull brakes, which go back to the late 50's. These look like the later 60's and early 70's ones. The Huret Svelto derailleur is also a 60's thing. Since i don't see any reason to think any of the components have been changed, I'm guessing this bike is from the late 60's or early 70's. To be sure, though, I'm guessing.
rhm is offline  
Old 05-27-19, 07:41 AM
  #22  
Kilroy1988 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Dinuba, CA
Posts: 887

Bikes: ~1950 Raleigh Popular, 1951 New Hudson Silver Arrow, ~1970 Frejus Tour de France, 1970 Raleigh Super Course, 1980 Raleigh Super Course 12, 1986 Club Fuji

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 386 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 10 Posts
So this is a Cobra from the late 1960s or early '70s. The catalog from 1969-1970 shows exactly the same paint scheme. The stays were definitely not bent originally! This is most likely some kind of modification done by a previous owner. In the late 1960s Carlton was already ten years under Raleigh management and they did not have the luxury of such experimentation, especially with a mid-range model such as the Cobra.

It's obviously well done, but I have serious doubts about it being from the factory this way.

However, I have heard of several bikes from this era that were purchased by employees or people who knew employees, that had some sort of interesting modifications right out the door. This could perhaps be such a case!

-Gregory

Last edited by Kilroy1988; 05-27-19 at 07:49 AM.
Kilroy1988 is offline  
Old 05-27-19, 12:10 PM
  #23  
juvela
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 8,117
Mentioned: 213 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1619 Post(s)
Liked 30 Times in 27 Posts
Originally Posted by Kilroy1988 View Post
So this is a Cobra from the late 1960s or early '70s. The catalog from 1969-1970 shows exactly the same paint scheme. The stays were definitely not bent originally! This is most likely some kind of modification done by a previous owner. In the late 1960s Carlton was already ten years under Raleigh management and they did not have the luxury of such experimentation, especially with a mid-range model such as the Cobra.

It's obviously well done, but I have serious doubts about it being from the factory this way.

However, I have heard of several bikes from this era that were purchased by employees or people who knew employees, that had some sort of interesting modifications right out the door. This could perhaps be such a case!

-Gregory
-----

modification is an interesting suggestion...

note that the pads in the 750 caliper are all the way at the top

one would think that if everything stock the manufacturer would have designed things so that pads would come out in the centre of the adjustment slot

if stays had been modified post manufacture the cycle would presumably sit with a bit of an upbubble

-----
juvela is offline  
Old 05-27-19, 12:42 PM
  #24  
63rickert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,066
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 478 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 18 Times in 15 Posts
If that is an owner mod someone does lovely work. They do look like small diameter stays, "pencil stays", so somewhat easier to work with. In wonderful state of preservation.

Buy that bike. Then report to us how it rides.

Gerry O'Donovan did all kinds of experiments. He was GOD and no one told him what to do.
63rickert is offline  
Old 05-27-19, 03:09 PM
  #25  
Kilroy1988 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Dinuba, CA
Posts: 887

Bikes: ~1950 Raleigh Popular, 1951 New Hudson Silver Arrow, ~1970 Frejus Tour de France, 1970 Raleigh Super Course, 1980 Raleigh Super Course 12, 1986 Club Fuji

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 386 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 10 Posts
Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
Gerry O'Donovan did all kinds of experiments. He was GOD and no one told him what to do.
Like I said, I've heard of Carltons and Raleighs coming from that era with modifications due to personal connections with the factory or workers. And of course GOD could do as he pleased. But a mid-range model being put on a showroom floor with such an unusual adaptation seems highly unlikely. Hence my conclusion that it was either done for someone from within the factory as a personal touch, or modified afterward. Given the skill required to do the job right (as this seems to be) it strikes me that either situation was possible.
Kilroy1988 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.