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What We All Knew...

Old 06-06-19, 11:57 AM
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What We All Knew...

These old bikes still have what it takes. I'm definitely not here to brag, and I won't get into the details (see the racing forum instead), but suffice to say that in a (Giant) sea of carbon fiber and aluminum (and Ultegra... my god all the Ultegra), our old steel racing steeds are not completely outclassed. This wasn't even top of the line back in the day, but with a better rider than I it would have no issues steeling some glory at this level.
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Old 06-06-19, 12:41 PM
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It's not the scalpel, it's the surgeon!
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Old 06-06-19, 01:39 PM
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Ugh, not another thread about Captain Epo. Why can't he just go away...? Yay! It's not about him!

At most events (like Etape this Sunday), I take pride in not only being the ~only~ steel bike (and I'm looking for 'em), but also being the sole bulldog at the greyhound convention at the summit finish.



It's a winning option no matter what:
You beat me and my 22+ lb beauty up the mountain on your 14-pound plastic-fantastic? Congratulations on your expensive advantage.

However, on the other hand...
My 22+ lb beauty beat you and your disposabike up the mountain? Oooh, that's gotta hurt.

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Old 06-06-19, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
Ugh, not another thread about Captain Epo. Why can't he just go away...? Yay! It's not about him!

At most events (like Etape this Sunday), I take pride in not only being the ~only~ steel bike (and I'm looking for 'em), but also being the sole bulldog at the greyhound convention at the summit finish.



It's a winning option no matter what:
You beat me and my 22+ lb beauty up the mountain on your 14-pound plastic-fantastic? Congratulations on your expensive advantage.

However, on the other hand...
My 22+ lb beauty beat you and your disposabike up the mountain? Oooh, that's gotta hurt.
I take it that this is the summit at Mt. Palomar?
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Old 06-06-19, 02:23 PM
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I think you had some company from this forum at that race... @TimmyT is this the same race you were in?
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Old 06-06-19, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
I take it that this is the summit at Mt. Palomar?
The start line in Escondido. That was a tough day. It was scorching hot (over 95) then, and they underestimated Cole Grade Road after Palomar. It's only about a mile, but it's tough. I finished in the top 10% again, but nearly half of the field didn't finish because of that climb. We had to ride back to Escon***** after Palomar.
It gave me great pleasure to watch the pros struggle with white salt stains on their jerseys on that mutha. Haven't seen ATOC down here since then, and I don't suppose we will again. 8D
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Old 06-06-19, 02:36 PM
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@lostarchitect Yes. I was riding aluminum and ultegra near the front in this finish line photo.

OP is at the back on the yellow Basso. 2nd Place is in black in the foreground. First place is already out of the frame.

There's nothing wrong with steel, mind you, but this wasn't a very fast or challenging race -- flat course, low wind. I find those old Italian race bikes too flexy. I'll also point out that it looks like the OP is running Campy 11 (Athena?) and is clad in modern everything. In this case, if the frame suits, it's probably OK.

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Originally Posted by Craigslist View Post
Note to you BLOWHARD MORONS out there: The fork is not bent. Most PEUGEOTS of the '70s forks DID NOT line up with the head tube angle. This is normal. The last pic is from the 1972 Dutch catalog showing this EXACT MODEL in diagram. Keep your comments to yourself......

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Old 06-06-19, 02:41 PM
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@TimmyT that's you in blue & white on the left?
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Old 06-06-19, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 100bikes View Post
It's not the scalpel, it's the surgeon!
Absolutely. I just thought there might be some misconception out there (but not in here) that a steel frame was some sort of insurmountable obstacle. But yes, at least at this modest level, it's more than enough for a good rider (better than me!).

Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
At most events (like Etape this Sunday), I take pride in not only being the ~only~ steel bike (and I'm looking for 'em), but also being the sole bulldog at the greyhound convention at the summit finish.

It's a winning option no matter what:
You beat me and my 22+ lb beauty up the mountain on your 14-pound plastic-fantastic? Congratulations on your expensive advantage.

However, on the other hand...
My 22+ lb beauty beat you and your disposabike up the mountain? Oooh, that's gotta hurt.
Great stuff, love to see the old steel mixing it up.

And I know what you mean about the built in excuse. That's now why I decided to race this bike (I have a more modern bike in my stable), but that definitely came to mind. And, gasp, that frame isn't even full SL or SLX, but mere Tretubi!

Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
I think you had some company from this forum at that race... @TimmyT is this the same race you were in?
It would be cool to meet someone there. It's a nice venue, even if it's a bit of a hike for me.
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Old 06-06-19, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo View Post
It would be cool to meet someone there. It's a nice venue, even if it's a bit of a hike for me.
Yeah, it's a hike for everyone. Say Hi after the race one week. I'm out for the next two, but I'll be back
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Originally Posted by Craigslist View Post
Note to you BLOWHARD MORONS out there: The fork is not bent. Most PEUGEOTS of the '70s forks DID NOT line up with the head tube angle. This is normal. The last pic is from the 1972 Dutch catalog showing this EXACT MODEL in diagram. Keep your comments to yourself......
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Old 06-06-19, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TimmyT View Post
Yeah, it's a hike for everyone. Say Hi after the race one week. I'm out for the next two, but I'll be back
Cool, will do. I don't think I will be there on a regular basis either, but we will probably cross paths at some point.
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Old 06-06-19, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo View Post
a better rider than I it would have no issues steeling some glory at this level.
I seew hat you did there.

But to be fair those wheels are not vintage, nor are they low-end.
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Old 06-06-19, 05:30 PM
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These old bikes still have what it takes.
Not really.
I'd not be interested in discarding all of the "incremental gains" of the last 45 years to put my old bike that was raced then back in period spec, pin on a number and have at it in my Masters class vs guys kitted out on modern machines in the local RR or Crit.

C&V too often gets downright silly pretending that those incremental gains are somehow illusory or "cheating".
We long career racers didn't adopt generations of new designs and materials because we despised the previous ones as "old-fashioned" but because the new ones were (mostly) just that much better for racing.
It all added up, and will again, and again, under evolving UCI rules.

As far as racing a steel frame equipped w/ modern components and kit today, suit yourself but don't pretend to stand on any high ground of hair-shirted Martyrdom doing it. You run what you brung and got the result you earned just like on any race day then/now.

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Old 06-06-19, 08:23 PM
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/\ This...

I ride C&V when leading our B group rides and still get a good workout. When riding the A group with guys that are literally half my age, there is little room for anything that is not light, stiff and aero. If you can hang with the 20 somethings on a bike that’s otherwise 1-2 mph slower, then good for you.
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Old 06-06-19, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
Ugh, not another thread about Captain Epo. Why can't he just go away...? Yay! It's not about him!

At most events (like Etape this Sunday), I take pride in not only being the ~only~ steel bike (and I'm looking for 'em), but also being the sole bulldog at the greyhound convention at the summit finish.

It's a winning option no matter what:
You beat me and my 22+ lb beauty up the mountain on your 14-pound plastic-fantastic? Congratulations on your expensive advantage.

However, on the other hand...
My 22+ lb beauty beat you and your disposabike up the mountain? Oooh, that's gotta hurt.
So you bring a ready-made excuse for when they're faster but gloat when they're not?
I'm not sure "winning option" is the term that applies here.
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Old 06-06-19, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Fahrenheit531 View Post
So you bring a ready-made excuse for when they're faster but gloat when they're not?
I'm not sure "winning option" is the term that applies here.
Found one of the latter. 8D

I was being jocular. I don't actually make excuses nor gloat, but it does feel good to finish ahead of younger, thinner riders. Is that not acceptable in your book?
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Old 06-06-19, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
Found one of the latter. 8D

I was being jocular. I don't actually make excuses nor gloat, but it does feel good to finish ahead of younger, thinner riders. Is that not acceptable in your book?
Yeah, totally acceptable. In the context of this thread the possibility that I was reading humor didn't even occur to me. One too many "CF vs old steel" threads perhaps.
Swing and a miss!
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Old 06-06-19, 09:49 PM
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Agreed, way too much tupperware on the roads these days.
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Old 06-06-19, 10:02 PM
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I built up a Carbon Fiber wonder bike this year. So far, I am still getting used to the bike and the compact double 50t 34t gearing and with the crappy weather, I am way behind on miles over last year. I will say that the bike is not as stiff feeling as I thought it would be. I am still out of shape but getting my legs back slowly. The CF bike still managed to give me a personal best on one Strava segment , and two second bests on a couple others. I will know more by the end of the season.

I do hope to give a person on a steel ride, who is in far better shape than I, a great day and bragging rights for passing me on my carbon fiber wonder bike. I do not get passed very often on any of my bikes, but when I do, they are really fast and fit riders.
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Old 06-06-19, 10:05 PM
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My one and only bike is an '84 Peugeot PH10LE that I bought new. I'm still running the Helicomatic drive train, too. I have no problem staying up with the plastic bike riders, for a short while, then the motor tires out. I'm 64 yo. If I was 20 years younger like most of the guys are in the club, I'd have no problem staying with them. Unfortunately it's the motor, not the vehicle that is the hinderance.
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Old 06-06-19, 11:25 PM
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Science has proven that it takes 12 pounds of weight reduction to gain 1 mph on a bike. obviously a 120 pound rider on a 15 pound carbon bike is going to have some advantage over another rider who weighs the same but is riding a 20 pound bike. Having said that it still has more to do with the motor than the bike. You could put me on a UCI tour legal bike and while I may go faster than I normally do on my vintage steel bikes, I am still not going to keep up with a pack of fit and fast riders on vintage steel racers hell bound for glory .
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Old 06-07-19, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo View Post
These old bikes still have what it takes. I'm definitely not here to brag, and I won't get into the details (see the racing forum instead), but suffice to say that in a (Giant) sea of carbon fiber and aluminum (and Ultegra... my god all the Ultegra), our old steel racing steeds are not completely outclassed. This wasn't even top of the line back in the day, but with a better rider than I it would have no issues steeling some glory at this level.
The dude on the Giant looks like a pro, but....what is up with his wheelset. He must have made a last minute change before the race.
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Old 06-07-19, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
The dude on the Giant looks like a pro, but....what is up with his wheelset. He must have made a last minute change before the race.
He doesn't look like a pro to me. znon-matching kit, (Rapha), glasses under the helmet straps, and racing a Defy? Nope, definitely not a pro.
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Old 06-07-19, 07:20 AM
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Oddly enough USAC racing is age cadre and experience based in field selection.
If/when I emerge from retirement to pin on a number it will be my peers not their grandchildren or rank newbies that I'll line up with.
As ever it will be the fit, fast and race smart who populate the steps of the podium using the equipment that they prefer within UCI guidelines.
If one feels up for giving a demonstration of their C&V period machine and kit please make sure that your tires are firmly glued and have at it.

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Old 06-07-19, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by 100bikes View Post
It's not the scalpel, it's the surgeon!
Well no, even a great surgeon needs a sharp scalpel - a butter knife won't cut it (lol!).
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