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600EX shifters, levers and hoods

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600EX shifters, levers and hoods

Old 06-10-19, 03:16 PM
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mboro1876
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600EX shifters, levers and hoods

I have this group on my 1987 Raleigh road ace.

1. I just replaced the 600ex down tube shifters with 105s... every forum and guide has mentioned this but all the same it was fun to see: all but two of the indexing teeth inside the 600ex bphad broken off and were sloshing around in the shifter . If you ride 600ex shifters I strongly recommend this, just keep the 600ex shifters in a box. ESPECIALLY if they still work

2. The brake levers 6207 have sad looking, okayish fitting dia compe gum hoods, and I hate them. Tough to find NOS in the uk... Does anyone have experience running these levers hoodless? some levers are better than others for that. Or if you know of a truly great fitting aftermarket hood...

thanks!
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Old 06-10-19, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mboro1876 View Post
I have this group on my 1987 Raleigh road ace.

1. I just replaced the 600ex down tube shifters with 105s... every forum and guide has mentioned this but all the same it was fun to see: all but two of the indexing teeth inside the 600ex bphad broken off and were sloshing around in the shifter . If you ride 600ex shifters I strongly recommend this, just keep the 600ex shifters in a box. ESPECIALLY if they still work

2. The brake levers 6207 have sad looking, okayish fitting dia compe gum hoods, and I hate them. Tough to find NOS in the uk... Does anyone have experience running these levers hoodless? some levers are better than others for that. Or if you know of a truly great fitting aftermarket hood...

thanks!

The cane creek replacement hoods are sad and bad fitting . Nos examples can be pricey I’ve done both . Just my two cents spend the extra money on a nos set .
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Old 06-12-19, 03:39 AM
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quick question on these sl-1055 shifters

so as above I replaced the 600ex sis with 105 sis (6 speed). The 105s look in fine shape internally — no broken teeth in contrast to the other ones. However, I notice indexable ‘half gears’ in between 1st/2nd, 2nd/3rd, gradually disappearing as I go through. Yesterday I found the screw was loosening and locktited it, today it’s still tight but the half-indexing is still happening. Just a quirk of these shifters?
cheers!
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Old 06-12-19, 05:54 AM
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Shimano 1055’s are 7 speed shifters. Check your model number on the back of the shifters.
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Old 06-12-19, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by tyler_fred View Post
Shimano 1055’s are 7 speed shifters. Check your model number on the back of the shifters.
My mistake, I meant 1050 and they are 6 speed.
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Old 06-12-19, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mboro1876 View Post
so as above I replaced the 600ex sis with 105 sis (6 speed). The 105s look in fine shape internally — no broken teeth in contrast to the other ones. However, I notice indexable ‘half gears’ in between 1st/2nd, 2nd/3rd, gradually disappearing as I go through. Yesterday I found the screw was loosening and locktited it, today it’s still tight but the half-indexing is still happening. Just a quirk of these shifters?
cheers!
I would start by checking the high gear limit screw setting on the rear derailleur and verify that the chain is aligned properly on the smallest cog. Tighten the cable fixing clamp on the derailleur and verify that the cable is taut.
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Old 06-12-19, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by tyler_fred View Post
I would start by checking the high gear limit screw setting on the rear derailleur and verify that the chain is aligned properly on the smallest cog. Tighten the cable fixing clamp on the derailleur and verify that the cable is taut.
Thanks. I went and checked both the limit screw and it was all good, right cable (a new one just installed) too. When the shifter is flat against the down tube, the mech is in top gear and the cable is taut. A nice single click takes it into 5th, similarly into 4th, then for the remaining few shifts there is a progressively more obvious ‘in between’ click which with a bit of care I can ‘index into’ as it were. Especially noticeable between 1 and 2. In the ‘proper’ indexes the shifting and alignment is perfect with no rub.
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Old 06-12-19, 12:29 PM
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Sounds like you're getting some cable rub or binding as the cable tension increases. Replace the cable and housing if it's not new.
If it is, check the length of the loop between the RD and cable stop. Could be too long or gummed up. Derailleur housing is always better than brake housing or a coiled spring thingy back there, too. I'd also check the RD pivots, clean well and make sire there isn't some fine dirt, sand, etc. gumming up the works at full extension.

Those shifters are pretty darn near nukeproof and should give you a solid single click for each gear shift.
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Old 06-12-19, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
Sounds like you're getting some cable rub or binding as the cable tension increases. Replace the cable and housing if it's not new.
If it is, check the length of the loop between the RD and cable stop. Could be too long or gummed up. Derailleur housing is always better than brake housing or a coiled spring thingy back there, too. I'd also check the RD pivots, clean well and make sire there isn't some fine dirt, sand, etc. gumming up the works at full extension.

Those shifters are pretty darn near nukeproof and should give you a solid single click for each gear shift.
Thanks I’ll try this. So if I remove the cable entirely for example, I should when moving the shifter on its own have single clear clicks ?
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Old 06-12-19, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mboro1876 View Post
Thanks I’ll try this. So if I remove the cable entirely for example, I should when moving the shifter on its own have single clear clicks ?
Yes, you should hear five singular audible clicks. Also make sure that your selector between index-friction is fully engaged in the index mode.
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Old 06-12-19, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by tyler_fred View Post
Yes, you should hear five singular audible clicks. Also make sure that your selector between index-friction is fully engaged in the index mode.
Okay. I made a quick video to illustrate. FWIW the cable is brand new and the housing pretty new, although the length could be off it looks right. I will give the derailleur a clean.

However this video is with the cable loose, ie not acting against the derailleur springs at all. It should be the pure shifter behaviour. I start by downshifting and it all sounds good. I then go the other way and show how I can ‘index’ it with a click in in-between bits. so on one up shift cycle there are many more than 5 clicks. Hopefully this is clear in the video.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j3yzu6a96c...%20pm.mov?dl=0

is it possible the screw being too tight could cause this? I’m at a loss having looked inside the shifter and seen all the metal tabs present and correct.
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Old 06-12-19, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mboro1876 View Post
Okay. I made a quick video to illustrate. FWIW the cable is brand new and the housing pretty new, although the length could be off it looks right. I will give the derailleur a clean.

However this video is with the cable loose, ie not acting against the derailleur springs at all. It should be the pure shifter behaviour. I start by downshifting and it all sounds good. I then go the other way and show how I can ‘index’ it with a click in in-between bits. so on one up shift cycle there are many more than 5 clicks. Hopefully this is clear in the video.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j3yzu6a96c...%20pm.mov?dl=0

is it possible the screw being too tight could cause this? I’m at a loss having looked inside the shifter and seen all the metal tabs present and correct.
I’m at a loss. I wonder if the internal spring is cracked.
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Old 06-12-19, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tyler_fred View Post
I’m at a loss. I wonder if the internal spring is cracked.
Me too. I don't know what's inside as I can't see how to properly open it to see any Spring. Anyway, good excuse to clean the derailleur and maybe I just need to pick up another
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Old 06-12-19, 08:25 PM
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Hmmmmm.
Never seen that before. Nothing internal that can be serviced-it's a sealed unit.
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Old 06-13-19, 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
Hmmmmm.
Never seen that before. Nothing internal that can be serviced-it's a sealed unit.
Thanks a lot for the help anyway, and Tyler Fred. This may be the excuse I need to go to 8 speed and cassette on the bike. Eyeing up FH-6402 based wheelset. So some good may come of it all
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Old 06-13-19, 07:17 AM
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Could you just run the shifters in friction?
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Old 06-13-19, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Cl904 View Post
Could you just run the shifters in friction?
That's what I'll doing for now, yeah. I looked into sourcing replacement 105 shifter, but longer term I think I'll move to a 6402 cassette hub and 8 or 9 speeds. So until then, friction!
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Old 06-13-19, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
Hmmmmm.
Never seen that before. Nothing internal that can be serviced-it's a sealed unit.
The one thing that can be done, and often is needed on these old S.I.S. levers, is to lubricate them internally.

I have tried lubing from the back side (through the invisible hole for the end of the internal spring), but what works better and faster using less oil is to simply remove the mounting screw and place several drops of oil where the head of the screw rests, letting it soak in in a warm environment (or whirl the lever through your arm's arc to force the oil down into the lever's indexing ball plates). A pressurized aerosol lube can make short work of this if you can concentrate the blast with an extension tube, see below.

These levers just don't work when the lubricant has dried out and/or been displaced by the elements, so oiling them up restores a more solid click sound and makes for more precise indexed positions through the lever's travel. Suntour's Accushift and Campagnolo's Synchro levers similarly respond to needed internal lubrication just as Shimano's levers do.

As for the fragile tines that provide rotational "grip" of the inner hub on the mounting "ring", these usually get damaged during installation when the tines aren't carefully aligned to mesh effortlessly on the mating part. Also they are some kind of pot metal that might be subject to corrosion, and can also be sheared by forcing the lever past it's forward stop. It seems they live a hard life!


Last edited by dddd; 06-13-19 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 06-13-19, 02:25 PM
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Great info. I’ll try that
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Old 06-14-19, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by dddd View Post
The one thing that can be done, and often is needed on these old S.I.S. levers, is to lubricate them internally.

I have tried lubing from the back side (through the invisible hole for the end of the internal spring), but what works better and faster using less oil is to simply remove the mounting screw and place several drops of oil where the head of the screw rests, letting it soak in in a warm environment (or whirl the lever through your arm's arc to force the oil down into the lever's indexing ball plates). A pressurized aerosol lube can make short work of this if you can concentrate the blast with an extension tube, see below.

These levers just don't work when the lubricant has dried out and/or been displaced by the elements, so oiling them up restores a more solid click sound and makes for more precise indexed positions through the lever's travel. Suntour's Accushift and Campagnolo's Synchro levers similarly respond to needed internal lubrication just as Shimano's levers do.

As for the fragile tines that provide rotational "grip" of the inner hub on the mounting "ring", these usually get damaged during installation when the tines aren't carefully aligned to mesh effortlessly on the mating part. Also they are some kind of pot metal that might be subject to corrosion, and can also be sheared by forcing the lever past it's forward stop. It seems they live a hard life!

No good sadly. I can only surmise that the teeth, despite appearances, are damaged somewhat or the spring or internals somehow broken. Everything seems perfectly ‘smooth’, apart from these weird half-index clicks. Oh well 👍
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