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Source for 27" Wheels with Hooked Rims?

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Source for 27" Wheels with Hooked Rims?

Old 06-24-19, 06:54 AM
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mmcc73
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Source for 27" Wheels with Hooked Rims?

When riding my mid 70s Dawes Galaxy last week, my rear tire popped out of the rim. I wasn't running terribly high pressure - about 60psi - but my rim is slightly out of round and won't get any rounder. I'm planning on taking it on a multi day ride next month, so I'm thinking a new wheel might be in order. And, if I'm going to be getting a new wheel I might as well get one with hooked rims.

So... can anyone recommend a source for 27" wheels with hooked rims?

I'm seeing some WheelMaster wheels on amazon, but it looks like they have a reputation for bustin' spokes. Are there other suggestions for new wheels?

I'd also consider buying a donor bike, but I don't know when hooked rims came into vogue.

I'd also consider moving to 700c if that is going to make sourcing easier.
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Old 06-24-19, 07:49 AM
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Sun CR-18 rims are popular, come in 27" size with hooked beads:

https://www.amazon.com/SUNringle-Sun.../dp/B002DMRBY6

Velo-Orange was selling pre-built 27" wheels at one point; Harris Cyclery might still. In both cases I believe they used CR-18 rims.
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Old 06-24-19, 07:56 AM
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They still make 'good' 27" wheels. Velomine has Weinmann and SUN with 'classic' 90's-era box rims, and BicycleWheelWarehouse has their in-house PURE, which is a modern semi-aero rim. They should all come in between $100-$120

They all spec 126mm OLD, freewheel hubs, so they should just drop right in on your vintage bike. you can use your same gear cluster, and the original brakes.


The only drawback to sticking with 27" wheels, is that 27x1-1/4" is the only size tire available; However, it's 32mm wide, which is a nice all-around size, and some of the big brands like Conti, Schwalbe, and Panaracer still make popular models in that size.


I'd skip looking for a donor bike, since it'll be used, too, and the wheels may not be any better than what you've got now.

700c wheels are easier to find (although not any less expensive) , and 700c tires come in a lot wider range of sizes / styles than 27" However, you will have to replace your brakes, since the wheel is smaller, and the vast majority of vintage brake calipers just don't have enough adjustment range. Also a modern cassette hub is going to need some tweaking to make it play nice with the rest of your 70's era 5~6-speed drivetrain, or vice versa.
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Old 06-24-19, 07:59 AM
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https://thebikeshopstore.com/categor...ucp-spokes-36h

$28.71 = shipping
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Old 06-24-19, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Ironfish653 View Post
The only drawback to sticking with 27" wheels, is that 27x1-1/4" is the only size tire available; However, it's 32mm wide, which is a nice all-around size, and some of the big brands like Conti, Schwalbe, and Panaracer still make popular models in that size.
Are you saying Panaracer doesn't make 27"x25mm any more? They were making them not so many years ago.
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Old 06-24-19, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by jimmuller View Post
Are you saying Panaracer doesn't make 27"x25mm any more? They were making them not so many years ago.
I'm fairly certain they're still available. They at least still make 27x1-1/8" (28mm) Paselas
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Old 06-24-19, 09:38 AM
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Panaracer and Continental still offer several nice tire options each in 27x1 /25 and 27x1 1/8/28 sizes.
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Old 06-24-19, 10:21 AM
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Continental doesn't currently offer anything in 27X1.
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Old 06-24-19, 11:31 AM
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If you want to stay with 27-in, Panaracer Paselas in 27 x 1 1/4 really are the bomb. I had been running mine at 70 psi even on hooked bead rims, just because they float so nicely, but after using this site's calculator for tire pressure with the 28 mm tires on another bike and loving the results, I think I will try 62 psi in the rear tire and 51 psi up front on mine. Which is WELL within the range of what a straight-walled rim can manage.

Originally Posted by Ironfish653 View Post
700c wheels are easier to find (although not any less expensive) , and 700c tires come in a lot wider range of sizes / styles than 27" However, you will have to replace your brakes, since the wheel is smaller, and the vast majority of vintage brake calipers just don't have enough adjustment range. Also a modern cassette hub is going to need some tweaking to make it play nice with the rest of your 70's era 5~6-speed drivetrain, or vice versa.
I must respectfully disagree. I've owned lots of vintage bikes built for 27-in wheels, and usually if they have their stock brakes there will be the necessary 4 mm of brake reach needed to accommodate the switch from 630 to 622. The adjustment slots on Weinmann 999s (probably a 610 up front/750 in back per British conventions) are at least 10 mm long if not more. It was common enough practice to switch out between 27-in clinchers and 700C tubulars to warrant building bikes with a mid-slot spec for brake pads. Even a crappy Batavus Tour de l'Europe could accommodate that switch. Mid-70s Dawes Galaxy is the freaky twin from another mother to the Raleigh Super Course of that era and I bet it will work just fine with the smaller wheels.


If you have any doubt, though - before buying 700C wheels, just look at the slots in the brake arms. If you have 4 mm or more space to go down, you're fine. For that matter, you can sometimes substitute a narrower brake pad and cheat things down a bit that way, too.

The cassette hub will probably play nicely with 70s era parts, though you'll want a new chain. The only limits you may run into are how far out you can set the rear derailleur limit screws to handle a wider cog block and how much cable pull you get out of your levers. I used to shift a Campagnolo Olympus mtb derailleur over an 8-speed Campagnolo cassette hub with 70s SunTour barcons and it worked, but I had to have everything dialed in just so to get all 8 gears. The modern cog shapes and a modern chain on old derailleurs usually shift very nicely, though.
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Old 06-24-19, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by agmetal View Post
I'm fairly certain they're still available. They at least still make 27x1-1/8" (28mm) Paselas
You’re right. I found that 27x1” is still in production, too, just not easy to find.

My 27” bike has been retired from ‘serious ‘ road riding, and has become the townie/path bike, so 1-1/4’s fit the mission nicely

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Old 06-24-19, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rustystrings61 View Post
Originally Posted by Ironfish653 View Post
700c wheels are easier to find (although not any less expensive) , and 700c tires come in a lot wider range of sizes / styles than 27" However, you will have to replace your brakes, since the wheel is smaller, and the vast majority of vintage brake calipers just don't have enough adjustment range. Also a modern cassette hub is going to need some tweaking to make it play nice with the rest of your 70's era 5~6-speed drivetrain, or vice versa.

I must respectfully disagree. I've owned lots of vintage bikes built for 27-in wheels, and usually if..................and I bet it will work just fine with the smaller wheels.

If you have any doubt, though - before buying 700C wheels, just look at the slots in the brake arms. If you have 4 mm or more space to go down, you're fine. For that matter, you can sometimes substitute a narrower brake pad and cheat things down a bit that way, too.
You're not wrong, although in my case it's been an 'as often as not' situation. Could just be the bikes i've worked on.
So, without measuring, I can't say for sure that the brakes on the OP's bike will accomodate both wheel sizes.




Originally Posted by rustystrings61 View Post
The cassette hub will probably play nicely with 70s era parts, though you'll want a new chain. The only limits you may run into are how far out you can set the rear derailleur limit screws to handle a wider cog block and how much cable pull you get out of your levers. I used to shift a Campagnolo Olympus mtb derailleur over an 8-speed Campagnolo cassette hub with 70s SunTour barcons and it worked, but I had to have everything dialed in just so to get all 8 gears. The modern cog shapes and a modern chain on old derailleurs usually shift very nicely, though.
One of the nice things about C&V is the amount of mixing and matching you can do to get sometimes 'off-the-wall' combintations to work. And yes, modern 'SIS' cassettes (even freewheels) and 8-sp chains do make an old bike shift nicely.

In the case of the OP, I should have been a little more specific. He states he's getting ready for a multi-day trip, and not knowing what sort of support / mechanical skill he has, recommended the course of action that changes the least number of components. No sense in missing the start date because you were waiting on parts, or suffering through a trip with a bike that doesn't quite work right.
I should have been a little more specific about that.
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Old 06-24-19, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by mmcc73 View Post
can anyone recommend a source for 27" wheels with hooked rims? I'd also consider moving to 700c...
First, find out if your calipers will reach 700c rims. Sometimes, it's really close but you may need to lengthen the caliper slot with a dremel tool to gain another bit of reach.

I like Sun m13ii rims in both 700c and 27" sizes, but I use 25mm tires. I really prefer the feel of narrow rims over wider, heavier ones like the cr18.

I use vintage hubs, Sun rims, Sapim Race spokes, and sheldon's wheel building page to build my own wheels in the upside down bike frame. I can build a set for under $120 this way.

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Old 06-24-19, 03:25 PM
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The CR-18 is a good bet, and if you don't mind a modern look (though it wouldn't really make sense to do this with 630's), Velocity makes the Dyad:

https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/dyad-27

They also used to make a weird box-section 27" rim with circular channels on each side. Still have one kicking about. Will have to double-check it's name.

Originally Posted by WGB View Post
Not hooked (unless the bead is rolled over) and not aluminum. Galvanized spokes. Wal-Mart level hub. Run away.

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Old 06-24-19, 05:43 PM
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For a narrower rim, the Sun M13-II. At least it was available in 27" a year or two ago.
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Old 06-24-19, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jimmuller View Post
For a narrower rim, the Sun M13-II. At least it was available in 27" a year or two ago.
I bought a Sun M13II 27" wheelset ($119/set) from Velomine a couple of years ago for my Univega Viva Sport. No problems at all in over a thousand miles. Oh, and I run 27x1-1/8 (28mm) Paselas at 85f/95r on most of my 27"-equipped bikes. The Univega Gran Tourismo is the only exception, and it rides on 27x1-1/4 (32mm) Pasela PTs.
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Old 06-25-19, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Cougrrcj View Post
I bought a Sun M13II 27" wheelset ($119/set) from Velomine a couple of years ago for my Univega Viva Sport. No problems at all in over a thousand miles. Oh, and I run 27x1-1/8 (28mm) Paselas at 85f/95r on most of my 27"-equipped bikes. The Univega Gran Tourismo is the only exception, and it rides on 27x1-1/4 (32mm) Pasela PTs.
Were the wheels from Velomine trued and lubed and ready to roll out of the box?
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Old 06-25-19, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mmcc73 View Post
Were the wheels from Velomine trued and lubed and ready to roll out of the box?
Wheels were true out of the box. With new sealed-bearing hubs, I didn't even think to check the lube since that would have necessitated disassembling the hubs. The wheels have been remained true for ~1000mi. I suppose I should check spoke tension one of these days...
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Old 06-26-19, 02:51 AM
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Low riding brake pad

Originally Posted by rustystrings61 View Post
If you want to stay with 27-in, Panaracer Paselas in 27 x 1 1/4 really are the bomb. I had been running mine at 70 psi even on hooked bead rims, just because they float so nicely, but after using this site's calculator for tire pressure with the 28 mm tires on another bike and loving the results, I think I will try 62 psi in the rear tire and 51 psi up front on mine. Which is WELL within the range of what a straight-walled rim can manage.



I must respectfully disagree. I've owned lots of vintage bikes built for 27-in wheels, and usually if they have their stock brakes there will be the necessary 4 mm of brake reach needed to accommodate the switch from 630 to 622. The adjustment slots on Weinmann 999s (probably a 610 up front/750 in back per British conventions) are at least 10 mm long if not more. It was common enough practice to switch out between 27-in clinchers and 700C tubulars to warrant building bikes with a mid-slot spec for brake pads. Even a crappy Batavus Tour de l'Europe could accommodate that switch. Mid-70s Dawes Galaxy is the freaky twin from another mother to the Raleigh Super Course of that era and I bet it will work just fine with the smaller wheels.


If you have any doubt, though - before buying 700C wheels, just look at the slots in the brake arms. If you have 4 mm or more space to go down, you're fine. For that matter, you can sometimes substitute a narrower brake pad and cheat things down a bit that way, too.

The cassette hub will probably play nicely with 70s era parts, though you'll want a new chain. The only limits you may run into are how far out you can set the rear derailleur limit screws to handle a wider cog block and how much cable pull you get out of your levers. I used to shift a Campagnolo Olympus mtb derailleur over an 8-speed Campagnolo cassette hub with 70s SunTour barcons and it worked, but I had to have everything dialed in just so to get all 8 gears. The modern cog shapes and a modern chain on old derailleurs usually shift very nicely, though.


Aican make these, they lower the pad maybe 10mm.
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Old 06-26-19, 06:45 AM
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I have 3 bikes that run 27" Wheels(still). I have 27" x 1 1/4" Michelin tires on my Mondia that check about 39mm when inflated so they barely clear the frame , but super nice to ride on with about 85lbs. The other two bikes are running Panaracer Pasela tires 27" x 1.0" that are very nice and check just under 25mm inflated to 90lbs. One of the 27" x 1.0" sets I just purchased so I'm pretty sure they are still available.I purchased the most recent set from 365Cycles on eBay for $50 for the pair, it was a few months ago. Joe

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Old 06-26-19, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Ironfish653 View Post
They still make 'good' 27" wheels. Velomine has Weinmann and SUN with 'classic' 90's-era box rims, and BicycleWheelWarehouse has their in-house PURE, which is a modern semi-aero rim. They should all come in between $100-$120

They all spec 126mm OLD, freewheel hubs, so they should just drop right in on your vintage bike. you can use your same gear cluster, and the original brakes.


The only drawback to sticking with 27" wheels, is that 27x1-1/4" is the only size tire available; However, it's 32mm wide, which is a nice all-around size, and some of the big brands like Conti, Schwalbe, and Panaracer still make popular models in that size.


I'd skip looking for a donor bike, since it'll be used, too, and the wheels may not be any better than what you've got now.

700c wheels are easier to find (although not any less expensive) , and 700c tires come in a lot wider range of sizes / styles than 27" However, you will have to replace your brakes, since the wheel is smaller, and the vast majority of vintage brake calipers just don't have enough adjustment range. Also a modern cassette hub is going to need some tweaking to make it play nice with the rest of your 70's era 5~6-speed drivetrain, or vice versa.
The only drawback to sticking with 27" wheels, is that 27x1-1/4" is the only size tire available um no. Panaracer makes Paselas in 27x 1 1/4 (32cm) 27 x 1 1/8 (28c) and 27 x 1 (25c). Swift (also Panaracer) makes a lovely 27 x 1 3/8 (about 35 cm) -Sand Canyon- tire I have on my Nishiki Cresta GT and they're great. Panaracer is probably the best 27" tire out there, but you can get 27 x 1 1/4 tires from pretty much any major tire manufacturer. Don't take my word for it look at amazon and bike tires direct.

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Old 07-02-19, 07:31 PM
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I ended up buying some 27" CR18s from Velomine. Two observations...

1) Mounting tires (Continental Ride Tour in 27" x 1 1/4") on these rim was a royal pain. I broke 3 plastic tire levers in the process, and when trying to put on the rear tire, I put a pinch flat in my tube 3 times. After liberal application of talcum power on tube, tire, and levers I was able to get the tire on and holding air. A pair of Park steel core tire levers on on their way.

2) Braking with these new rims is tremendously better than with the old ones.
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Old 07-02-19, 07:41 PM
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There are so many different factors at play with a difficult to mount tire/rim that I wouldn't blame a certain rim/tire for being difficult. Although Conti clinchers have a rep for being a tight fit. But then so do some Panaracer models. Hard to tell what the real cause is.

Avoid using a lever for mounting if possible. I wear polyurethane gloves to ease the rubbing on my skin and also to get more grip. That helps a lot and generally I can get even tough tires on with no lever. Couple years of being a shop mechanic also helped. Also make sure to push the bead into the rim all the way around to get maximum slack for the last bit.
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Old 07-03-19, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by TenGrainBread View Post
There are so many different factors at play with a difficult to mount tire/rim that I wouldn't blame a certain rim/tire for being difficult. Although Conti clinchers have a rep for being a tight fit. But then so do some Panaracer models. Hard to tell what the real cause is.

Avoid using a lever for mounting if possible. I wear polyurethane gloves to ease the rubbing on my skin and also to get more grip. That helps a lot and generally I can get even tough tires on with no lever. Couple years of being a shop mechanic also helped. Also make sure to push the bead into the rim all the way around to get maximum slack for the last bit.
Thanks for the tip on the gloves - I'll have to try that. I did smash a knuckle and bled a bit on my nice new wheel.

I can't imagine that even with gloves I'd be able to get them on without levers - it was super tight.
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Old 07-03-19, 08:10 PM
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For goodness sake, get a tire jack. Problem solved.
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Old 07-03-19, 08:19 PM
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mmcc73
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Originally Posted by jimmuller View Post
For goodness sake, get a tire jack. Problem solved.
Well I'll be damned. I just watched an RJ the Bike Guy video of this gizmo, and it looks like just the thing.
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