noahsmonark

Hey guys,

it never occurred to me that the pedals on my Monark (this one: Monark Special Racer (Blå Blixten) ca. 1950-1960 ) are missing their dust caps. I just cleaned and re-packed them after they started to get a little gritty and am now looking for replacement dust caps online.

The bike has an early 1950's Fauber one piece (!) crank and the pedals have "Made In France" written on them.

I found some MKS Sylvan dust caps online, do you reckon these would fit my pedals? Dust cap pictured below:

JohnDThompson 

Those MKS pedal dustcaps will fit a variety of other pedals, including Campagnolo, Zeus, Gipiemme, Ofmega, Kyokuto, and possibly others. But the French are notorious for doing things differently, and my experience is that they don't fit on Lyotard pedals.

I suspect you'll need to try it for yourself.

noahsmonark

Thanks for the input! The caps are pretty expensive so I'm trying to get a little insight before ordering a dud online. Are there any solid DIY methods available for protecting the outer bearings?

Here are my pedals pictured, in case anyone can tell just looking at these if those MKS (or another brand maybe?) caps would likely fit on these:

Old Yeller

Your pedals appear to have male threads requiring a female threaded cap. The MKS caps are male threaded. They’re not going to work without modification

noahsmonark

Alright, thanks for clearing that out. Replacing a couple of dust caps turned out to be trickier than I thought.

@JohnDThompson mentioned the name Lyotard - this is the brand of my pedals? I am peeking at some vintage cap listings, but the prices seem to be insane. Almost makes me want to start hunting for a hot sauce with the perfect cap........

Has anyone ever made a blueprint/file for 3D-printing these, I think I could do that at my local library if someone has.

jeirvine 

Someone on this list probably has some trashed Lyotard pedals with salvageable caps. I would ask on the ISO thread.

juvela

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From what can be seen in the images provided pedals appear to be Lyotard model 45CA

OEM dust cap would have looked like this-




You may wish to visit this discussion thread -

https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=98646

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merziac

It would have to be old French hot sauce.

noahsmonark

Thank you very much @juvela - unfortunately, though, this seems to be incorrect.

I was sent these exact dust caps pictured, after asking around the "ISO and for trade" -thread here, they finally arrived to me across the ocean, but... No dice

To start with, my pedal axle was 2mm too long so the dust cap would not go in place, so I loosened the pedal to see whether the threads would fit - no, the threads are loose, these caps are ever so slightly too large.

This is incredibly frustrating. I then managed to find this picture, which shows very similar, if not 100% exact same Lyotard pedals (Edit: in closer inspection, I did notice slight differences after all, but they are close) - and the dust cap looks slightly different --->

https://www.velovilles.com/en/road-b...dals-oxid.html

It's the only picture I've seen of such dust caps (all the others seem to use the other model) - so I guess they are a pretty rare find. Paying 50€ for new pedals when the old ones are working perfectly, is a lot.

Just how bad it is to drive without the dust caps? I mean, how easy do you reckon it is for grit and sand to get in there? I am kind of sick of driving with barbeque sauce caps and tape that keeps falling off.

juvela

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Wow!

Apologies for my mis-identification.

The Lyotard 45TER is one rara avis.

You might try writing to Hilary Stone.

He is one of the few souls sure to be familiar with it.

May be able to suggest something for you...

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noahsmonark

Thanks - ok I just did, fingers crossed.

Everything on my bike seems rare as hell, sigh... I'm pretty close to just start riding without the dust caps at this point. If I'd known the dust caps will be such an issue, I would've just bought some other Lyotard pedals for it and get on with it.

juvela

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hello again noah,

two thoughts -

a) that is quite a bit of exposed spindle showing in the closeup photo. makes me wonder if spindles are original to pedals. certainly a chance they may be replacements. pedals do not usually have this much exposed spindle showing when assembled. ball size should be 5/32". wonder if perhaps they got reassembled at some point with 1/8" instead.

b) since what is required is a threaded cap you might consider taking measurements of the thread and then checking with industrial supply houses and or plumbing supply resources to see if they have anything the right size.

here is a fastener supply resource which has been very helpful to me with odd sized bits -

https://www.bowlinbolts.com/

https://www.yelp.com/biz/bowlin-equi...any-berkeley-2

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bowli...46427768722092

all best wishes with this!


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3alarmer 

...I glanced at your other thread on the bicycle in question. If this were me, (since like me, you have used mostly original stuff, but substituted other slightly more workable components in spots for the originals), I'd just buy some of the MKS pedals that look pretty close to the Lyotards you have on there now, and if French threaded spindles is an issue, retap the Fauber crank to accept standard pedal threading. I have forgotten what the threading is on the one bike I have with a Fauber crank, but it was not that difficult for me to find other, more workable pedals for it. But mine is a DBS, and I've never worked on a Monark. Just a suggestion. Life is short and the "reproduction" pedal choices right now (from MKS and others...not true reproductions, but styled similarly to some of the older pedals) are something that has made my own life a lot easier.

merziac

I would shorten and dress the threaded shaft that is sticking out to far, then use the slightly too big caps with brass or aluminum shimstock or foil and a touch of super glue for locktite. You could probably also use thick oil pan type silicone seal to just glue them in place as well.

noahsmonark

Certainly liking the suggestions!

Summer here in Finland only lasts a few months and seeing as I've already spent weeks and weeks thinking about these ridiculous dust caps, I'd prefer a no-hassle solution just to get me back on the road.

As a first option I'm thinking of just riding these now as is - and start looking for similar-ish looking Lyotard pedals from Ebay.

This would be a nice compromise of not having to re-tap anything or shorten spindles, but still get something that will appear period correct with the bike. Btw I actually already thought about shortening the spindle... My regular crosscut mill file + elbow grease got me absolutely nowhere... Just taught myself some new swear word combinations that I can use later. Probably not at all the right tool for the job though.

Anyway. One little problem with my 1st option = looking for new vintage Lyotards:

The inside diameter of the pedal holes on my one-piece Fauber crank is 12mm. Why am I getting an itchy feeling this will get me into further trouble..?

This is a bit of a noob question - but I'm dealing with the metric system here and as the size of the crank hole is 12mm, what would be the proper search word to find accurate sized Lyotards for this? Inches are used more commonly with spindle threadings am I right? This is just a gut feeling but I'm thinking most of the Lyotards will have a slightly larger thread on the spindle (14mm?) but then again, there's bound to be some out there, that would match these one-piece Fauber cranks without needing to modify.

noahsmonark

I looked further into the world of pedals - my pedals are pictured below. I'd like to confirm the following.

My thread size from crest-to-crest is ~ 12,5mm give or take. Google tells me one piece cranks (which I have) use 1/2" threads - 1/2" converted to mm is 12.7 which is close to my 12.5. I did also got the usual "except some older French cranks..." remark in there, which is making me jumpy - I'd hate to order any more stuff that doesn't fit.

The pedals have "Made In France" written and are marked D and S. I read somewhere that Italian pedals are marked D and S (like mine) while French pedals would be marked D and G. Am I still correct to assume these would be French threaded?

So. If I were to look for pedals for my Fauber crank without needing to re-tap - I'd be looking for - please do correct me if I'm wrong:

French-threaded, 1/2" pedals ?

Anything I missed?

juvela

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ahoy ark captain -

there are three pedal threads for pedal cycles

a) BSC/ISO: 9/16" X 20F

b) metric/"french": 14mm X 1.25

c) 1/2" (12.7mm)

once again your Monark has the odd one...

have a Fauber chainset here which came from a Monark

can confirm its pedal thread is indeed 1/2"

there is not really enough material in the crank arm to tap it out to a larger size and still preserve adequate strength

as far a replacement pedals go it will be a challenge to locate european quill pattern pedals with a 1/2" thread. they were manufactured and exist, as evidenced by your Monark, but are a rare item.

one possible avenue you might wish to explore would be to purchase a pair of Lyotard 45CA pedals in any thread. they are a close cosmetic match to your 45TER model. appreciate you wish to keep bicycle as close to original as possible. you could replace the spindles on the 45CA set with the 1/2" spindles from your 45TER fellows.

the D and G markings on your pedals stand for "droit" (right) and "gauche" (left).

sorry to be once again the bearer of not-so-good news...

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TenGrainBread 

@noahsmonark There is a glimmer of hope if you want to get new pedals for those cranks. The MKS website states that they make their entire Sylvan line of traditional pedals in a 1/2" spindle. https://www.mkspedal.com/?q=en/news/node/10

What I would do is go to your local bike shop and have them try to special order a pair of MKS Sylvan touring pedals with a 1/2" spindle for you. Both QBP and Merry Sales Co., two very common US bike part distributors, are MKS distributors, so they might be able to order it for you if the MKS website is to be believed.

noahsmonark

This is a great suggestion - I had no idea MKS made these with a 1/2" spindle and I have to admit, their pedals do look the part. I've seen some models where the aluminum shine is too dim/matte (same goes to the pictures on their website) but then I googled a real-life photo of the pedals: it had the shine and looked shockingly close overall.

That info on their website is from 2002 (!) though.


Also a fantastic idea I hadn't thought about. 45CA would be a slightly more common model to find am I correct?

Only issue I can think of is my spindle may once again be sticking out too far for the dust cap to fit...


Thanks so much for checking that. Seeing as these are (should be...) standards, wouldn't this mean the 1/2" MKS replacements (if they exist) actually then ought to be a fit.

It's a tough call between MKS-thread-possibly-not-fitting and spindle-possibly-sticking-too-far but these are both great ideas.

3alarmer 

Alta Bicycle Pedal Adapter Fits 1/2 Cranks & 9/16 Bike Pedals

...they do push your pedals out a little farther, but in some cases that works to your advantage. They sell "pedal extenders" that do the same thing that are 9/16 to 9/16.

noahsmonark

Good tip!

merziac

MKS are da bomb, no way to go wrong, excellent quality, great prices, bullet proof, always have been and likely always will be. I have many for daily use and have never had an issue.

This is your best short/long term fix, make it so.

noahsmonark

I'm certainly drawn towards them, especially if they'd be a fit straight away. I mean, they should be, since they're stated 1/2"... Right...

I'm trying to keep most of the bike original or at least close to the era - modern (even 'retro') parts quite often look a bit off (this is why I went for 1960's-looking NOS tubular rims last year as well, even though I have to admit, living with tubulars is not proving to be too much fun. I don't think I would really recommend it to anyone. But the look and feel of the bike is straight up beautiful, so I'm not having second thoughts either).

But. Yeah. The MKS pedals really do look amazing, nothing really jumps out looking awkward, so I think I could make an exception there. They seem to make a fantastic product.

Besides, I did also replace my Brooks B17 saddle earlier this year to a brand new one - reasoning being the same there, the new one was really close enough by my standards, nearly identical and once the leather gets a little wear on it, it'll stop jumping out as looking slightly too new with the rest of the bike.

merziac

I hear ya, also have many other sets for many other bikes/applications, Campy, Atom, Lyotard, Suntour, Way Assauto, etc. The other day I was glad I had the MKS on the 78 Merz I am commuting on right now. As I run extenders so they stick out more, I banged one hard on the ground when I timed a corner wrong and was glad it wasn't a Campy or something I only have one pair of although I didn't want to gack the MKS either.

Pedals are funny, awhile back I put the cottered steel Stronglight Competition crank on my 58 Paramount to take to a show and the best option for pedals I had were some old MKS all steel quills from the 60's, they look the part very well as if they belonged there even being too new and Japanese. I got the Way Assauto's for it and put them on for Bob Freeman's show, they are "Way" more correct but look kind of blah to me compared to the Old MKS's.

MKS







Way Assauto

noahsmonark

Ah, I see what you mean!