cudak888 

Thought about it. I'd go silver crankarms at that point (with a black chainring). The feature lines on the arms aren't sharp enough to sand it two-tone and expect it to look right.

-Kurt

cudak888 

Surprise - I figured out a SRAM shifter that - just barely - fits.



It shifts well, but runs backwards on the G9. That's all well and good, but the G9 rotary is binding, causing it not to engage properly in first through fourth. It's not the cable - the rotary assembly isn't springing back properly. If you stop and finagle the rotary unit into place, the problem goes away. I'm guessing one of the locknuts may be binding the mechanism, but I'm not well up enough (yet) on the G9 to know if this is, indeed, the case. At any rate, it's going to get a look-see soon.

Admittedly, the end of the present cable looks like crap - the SRAM has a LOT less space to work with than a Shimano Nexus or Sturmey rotary, which caught me off guard when trying to fit it - but it's not the issue. If you get the pinch bolt wrong the first time, this is the result; the rest of the cable works just fine.

Even with the current issues, its a joy to have a narrow-spaced IGH with a greater selection of usable gear options. Granted, there's also about three or four unnecessary ratios at the top, but you've got to work with what's out there, I guess (or get a Nuvinci).









The brakes, I might add, are extremely responsive. I attribute that even more to the Sturmey levers than the Tektro 800A and 900A.

I also snapped a couple of photos of the Pimento rear light. Perfectly understated.





-Kurt

pastorbobnlnh 

Hey Kurt, Happy New Year. I was just reminiscing that it was 15 years ago that I sent you this Raleigh from New Hampshire. Pretty amazing! All my best to you and your Mom.

cudak888 

Likewise to you and the family, Bob.

It's been ages, hasn't it? Still have some photos of it from BITD too:






-Kurt

P.S.: Wound up mounting the fender tab in front of the fork crown tonight. Clears fine and doesn't rub. Don't know why I didn't lead with that earlier. It's probably noted somewhere here in the thread...too lazy to read through it.

cudak888 

Well, this explains a lot of things.









That's the factory SRAM grease. It has turned to a gelatinous paste that's really sticky, really solid, and just as bad - if not worse - than what was left over in the AW hub of my never-serviced 1952 Raleigh Sports.

It's a miracle any of the pawls were engaging at all. Everything - and I mean everything was severely gunked up. These things were made between 2014 and 2017, so that means it had no more than six years to get this way. If so, I have a feeling that the factory-spec grease might be more at fault than anything else for the premature engagement issues that the G8 and G9 are frequently cited for. Not that I've reassembled it yet to confirm such, but it's a theory not without merit.

I've been soaking the bits in the meantime:






-Kurt

JaccoW

At first I thought it looked like rust, but your explanation uh... explains a lot of things indeed. You can 'stand up a spoon' in that muck.

What do you plan to grease it with it with?

Also, is that an actual wind up spring?

cudak888 

I guarantee you that there was so much grease gunk in the planet cage that I could have stuck a spoon vertically in it. Not even exaggerating.

As for the replacement grease, I had such excellent success getting the intolerant Sturmey XRF8 to work with 00 grease that I did this one entirely in the same.

Yes, that is the biggest, most pain in the butt, futher mucking clock spring ever to exist in the holy hell of internally geared hubs. I had the pawls in a vise as recommended by Rat City Bikes (SRAM G8 Disc Brake Hub Disassembly Procedure), but It took an hour to wind it back up while cutting my fingers open.

What's more, I think I got it in the wrong slot. The hub is shifting MUCH better now, but it's shifting pattern is 2-GRIND-4-5-6-7-8-9-1. Clock spring is probably wound too tight or in the wrong slot.

I've got a couple of things I plan to try, and I'm going to run it on the factory shifter during testing, just to eliminate that variable.

-Kurt

JaccoW

Sounds like you should order a spare hub to toss through the room in frustration. Perhaps you will have some pointers for the unfortunate soul who ever decides to play with one of these again.

But all jokes aside, I hope you get it working again. Hopefully with less bloody fingers.

cudak888 

Not really - with exception to the clock spring, the rest of the hub is really quite easy to work with. Imagine a Sturmey FW, only it has a stack of extra planetary gears (three of them), and it has four sun rings all floating in the middle (and one sun ring on the shaft). The lower stack of planetary gears have to be timed, just like an FW. The upper do not.

From that standpoint, it's a beautifully simple design and really nice to work on. The clock spring...hard NO.

-Kurt

pastorbobnlnh 

cudak888 "...futher mucking clock spring...." !

Kurt, years ago I picked up a NOS never laced SRAM S7 (Spectra 7, dated 2006) IGH at a LBS closeout sale for hardly any $$. I finally have a plan to use it as low tide beach cruiser I'll build around my early '90s Miyata Valley Runner frameset, which was made for the Swedish market. It's kind of interesting in that it has CF main tubes, aluminum lugs & stays, and a Chrome moly fork.


In any event, fiddling with the unlaced hub, the internals feel awful. I've seen posts warning about the grease that SRAM used. It certainly does seem, based on your experience, as if I should gird my loins and disassemble, clean, and grease this IGH before proceeding forward with a wheel build. Any advice you or others have to offer before I begin will be most appreciated.

cudak888 

Interesting. I'm all for the build, but I have to ask - how do you plan to install the anti-rotation washers in the vertical drops? Unlike Shimano or Sturmey's HMW534, I don't think SRAM ever made an anti-rotation washer for the application - though, of course, you can do what I did and file a pair of Shimano washers to fit.

I have no experience with the Spectros, but between the potential rebuild and the lack of rotation washers, I'd chuck it up on eBay as-is. Use the profits to get one of the former bike share Nexus 8 hubs that show up every now and then for cheap. You'll have a better chance of reliability, and the right washers for vertical installation are available with a click on the internet...

-Kurt

pastorbobnlnh 

Kurt,

Thank you for this advice. I didn't realize there would be a "rotation washer" issue. IIRC there are a set of washers in the box. However, I'll check them with the hub in the dropouts and see what I experience. And I'll take pictures, or it didn't happen.

I don't mean to hijack this thread in anyway--- but of course I do have some deep history in this project!

cudak888 

I'll have to dig out the originals so you can see what the G9's look like. I'm not sure if they improved them for the G8/G9; I believe Sheldon's site had some unpleasant comments about them not being able to resist the torque. I have never touched an i-Motion or a Spectro in my life, so I'm not sure how much innovation happened between the generations.

And please - hijack away or link up the build thread. And if there isn't a build thread...#thisforumisworthlesswithoutbuildthreads

-Kurt

pastorbobnlnh 

My slight momentary hijack shall continue--- a little while longer. I won't continue to pollute this good Raliegh thread with all this SRAM IGH stuff after this post! I I'll start a build thread after the wheels are built.

I brought the frameset home from the storage unit and fitted the SRAM S7 hub with the rotation washers into the dropouts. They wouldn't fit with the tabs up as shown in the SRAM diagram, but they do fit facing down. I don't know if they work like this or not. What do you think?



Interestingly, I fitted the click box and shifter and I believe something is wrong with the shifter and/or the click box. It won't really move. I have a spare shifter, sans click box, and it indexes nicely. I don't think it is the hub at this point because the shifter won't move when it is not attached to the hub.

I'm planning to use a chain tensioner (and possibly a double crankset).
Finally, just to give a bigger picture of this project. I have a SRAM front hub and I-Brake (drum) to utilize on the front wheel.

cudak888 

A bit of an update before delving into Pastoral SRAM Territory:

First, I swapped shifters. Perfect performance with the G9 shifter except for 2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-1.

So I repositioned the lousy, good for nothing, mucho crapo, piece of shyte clock spring to the other tab. Something I had misgivings about when I first assembled the hub.

Apparently, my misgivings were correct. The rotary shifter assembly barely retracts, and the shift pattern is so erratic that I can't even tell you what gear its engaged in. It's something like 3-6-7-8-1-2-GRIND-4, and since it doesn't retract all the way on the way down...

So next order of business is to take it all apart again, reposition the clock spring, and reassemble everything - only this time, I'm not going to put the rotary unit where it's marked. Going to go clockwise counterclockwise on its gear a tooth or two, which means the 75.8mm of cable spec'ed between housing and cable end will pull less when adjusted in fifth gear - which would explain the 2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-1.

A chewed up dropout and bent anti-rotation washer waiting to happen.

8L and 8R what the Shimano vertical anti-rotation washers look like - the tab slots into the dropout, so even though there's rotation prevention, there's not a lot of leverage for it to do damage:



If I must, I'll find someone with a spare 8 speed Nexus off a shared bike just to talk you out of this


Have you undone the cable to see if you can pull the clickbox manually?

Bob, you should know better than to copy Blasphtwenty's first incarnation...

Question - is the I-brake an external drum brake, band brake, or roller brake? If it's a roller brake, I'd run away from it too. If Shimano can't make a good roller brake (and they don't), I'd doubt SRAM of doing the same.

-Kurt

pastorbobnlnh 

No, it's not a roller brake but a drum brake with two shoes. I have no idea how it will work.

I went looking today and spotted this listing. Maybe I should stear clear of these as well?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SHIMANO-NEX...S/164637389707

I'll take the cable off the click box and see if I can get to the bottom of this issue.

cudak888 

Those front rollers stink to high heaven, but the rest of that package is a screaming good deal. They also gave me a deal on the new front rollers I had to buy for my SoBi 3.0's. That hub is usually $200.

Snatch it up. The shifters are cheap.

Here's the same rear hub in black, same seller, $119.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SHIMANO-NEX...kAAOSwibJfjNa4

If I didn't have $600 worth of bike shipments to cover for the Bike Share Museum, I'd probably get that, lace it into the Raleigh, and forget about the G9.

-Kurt

pastorbobnlnh 

Kurt you are so persuasive! I've made an offer and asked if the seller has the other needed Nexus bits to complete this project. I'll keep you posted.

cudak888 

I'm so persuasive that I convinced myself to talk to the seller about the black Nexus 8 too - jokes aside, I asked if he'd throw in the Cassette Joint kit - the necessary rotary actuator. Can't recall, but it might differ depending on the dropout.

Part of it is because I tore down and reassembled the G9 three times tonight. On the last run, I pulled all the pawls and springs as well. I've come to the conclusion that the clock spring is the problem child. It's supposed to be the return spring of the shift actuator, and there is absolutely no practical way to add tension to it - short of alternating the tabs it sits in - and even when the actuator seems to retract properly, every possible setup results in 2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-1.

Well sir...I've had enough!

-Kurt

pastorbobnlnh 

cudak888 But then I spotted this last night on CL which would provide just about everything I'd need for this build, including the possibility of a chain case.

https://nh.craigslist.org/bik/d/manc...260306871.html

While $299 is not cheap, I'm pretty certain by the time I add shifter, fenders, rack, basket, dynamo, lights, rims, spokes, etc., I'd be close. I can live with 6 instead of 7 or 8 speeds. Most of my freewheels only have 6.

cudak888 

Oh, now you're playing the Dockless Donor idea too - that Zagster used to be a shared bike.

Price isn't bad at all even as a donor, but two things:

1. Zagster ran both IGH and derailer bikes that look identical except for the drivetrain and chainguard vs. chaincase, so confirm with the seller.
2. Who makes a 6-speed IGH? Nobody.

Based on this picture - and it's not necessarily representative of the Zagsters being sold by that Craigslist seller; you never know what component substitutions were done between fleets or batches - it's running what looks like a Sturmey-Archer RX-RF5 5-speed hub. The Sturmey-Archer TSC-50/C-50 twist grip on the handlebar definitely supports this too.



Sturmey-Archer offers a HUGELY beefy vertical anti-rotation washer for these - the HMW534:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HMW534-0002...-/402188109800

Part of me thinks you'd still be better off with the Nexus 8, or the older Nexus 7 - which is still an excellent hub.

-Kurt

cudak888 

The (other) Boring Company's utterly reliable drivetrain has arrived.





The M5 screws for the stays arrive tomorrow. Not screwing with the English threads anymore, and I need a larger bolt that can hold both the fender stays and the offset extension adapter to support the rack (not great, but at least it will make the rack work with the Raleigh eyelets - for now).

I also reminded myself this time to get the left hand spoke lacing correct. Sheldon's lacing advice is great if your key spoke is the first from the valve stem. However, if the key spoke is on the second hole, his instructions are wildly overcomplex to explain something very simple: Install the first left-side trailing spoke one hole behind the first key spoke - between the key spoke and the valve hole.

Done.



-Kurt

cudak888 

Rack is now secure; mostly for looks, but secure. Had to run long M5 bolts on the fender stays, along with an odd little aluminum piece - removed from a vertical dropout-mount kickstand - on each side as a eyelet riser. To this riser, I've mounted the rack bolts and stamped groove retainers.

Microshift trigger shifter is on. Fit perfectly. More than I can say for any of the SRAM shifters.

Ran the cables like a madman tonight and did a number of up-and-down the block tests (with a head-mounted headlamp and tail since the on-bike lighting isn't working). Shifting was OK, then it got wonky, and the 4th-gear adjustment appeared to be no longer in alignment. Probably housing seating and cable stretch. Twisted the barrel a few times again to line up the marks, tested it some more. Seems to be A-OK now.

@kohl57's grey grips are on it now as well. With exception to fixing the lighting issues, taking care of the mis-matched pedals, and sorting out the crankarm lettering, this bike is pretty much done.

I might add that it must be the lightest Raleigh Sports I've ever ridden, as it feels a lot quicker and responsive than any other Sports I've known. I know it's not a Raleigh Pro with North Roads (and admittedly, the front-end geometry of the Pro isn't made for it, even though I've done it), but those test rides really seemed to eliminate the boring and uninspired complaint I had with this bike.

I know I'm stretching a point here, given that I've probably ridden it all of 4000 feet, but I'm getting the feeling that it's the perfect blend of traditional Sports and modern upgrades, without giving up appearance, geometry, or that emotion of knowing you're riding something special.

Pictures in the morning.

-Kurt

cudak888 

pastorbobnlnh 

What a beauty! I need to head to Coral Gables just to see and ride that old Sports! Perfect picture. No tip!