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Maintenance on "new" 1988 Miyata 615

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Maintenance on "new" 1988 Miyata 615

Old 07-20-19, 01:11 AM
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t1k
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Maintenance on "new" 1988 Miyata 615

Hi everyone.

I was lucky to come across a 1988 Miyata 615 in a pristine condition. The seller bough the bike for his wife, but for some reason she rode it only a couple of times. The bike was sitting in their basement for 31 years until they decided to sell it. Other than a few minor scratches on the frame the bike is in like new.

I fell in love with it the moment I saw it. I became obsessed with it when I rode it (except for the cage pedals, still getting used to them). The bike was well worth the 400kms trip to pick it up.

I'm not new to cycling. I've been regularly commuting on a bike for the last three years. But other than adjusting the brakes and lubricating/replacing chain, I relied on LBS for the bike maintenance.

I would like, however, to take care of Miya myself. To learn how to work on a bike and for sheer enjoyment of it.

Could you please help me to figure out what should I do on the bike. Here's what I've done so far:
1. inspected the tubes and tires. They are in great condition: no holes, no cracks. I'm still using the original tubes and they hold air well. I'll replace the tubes just to be safe but will keep the tires for now.
2. inspected wheels and spokes. Wheels are true and spokes are tight. Should I tighten the spokes a bit more, since they were sitting stretching for 30+ years?
3. took apart the brakes, put some grease on brake posts, reassembled and adjusted. Kept the original brake pads. I'm not impressed with the brake performance (but I'm comparing the cantilever brakes with hydraulic disk brakes). Do you think that replacing the old pads will dramatically increase braking power?
4. checked the BB and wheel hubs, they turn smoothly, no grinding, no clicking. I'm worried, however that the grease in the BB and hubs dried up. Is it a good idea to repack bearings anyways?
5. had an issue switching from the third to the second smallest rear cog. Tried to adjust the rear derailleur's cable tension but the gear switching still doesn't work as smooth as I would like. Switching from the second smallest to the smallest works fine though. What could cause this weird behaviour?
6. The bike has 54cm frame and it feels just a bit too small for me (I'm 5'9"). I wanted to try a setback seatpost but 26.8 posts are not that easy to find. It looks like the stock seatpost has some offset already. Does anybody know what's the stock seatpost's offset?
7. I'd like to try a longer stem to see if it will feel more comfortable. But it's hard to find a quill stem with 25.4 clamping diameter. Where do you guys source parts for Miyatas? One option I found, is to use a Nitto stem (26 mm clamp diameter) with a shim. But that feels a bit risky.
8. Is there a trick to using cage pedals? I have a hard time getting my foot into a cage once I start riding. I must be doing it wrong. Want to give cages a chance because they feel great once both feet are in: good power transfer without a feeling that your feet are nailed to the pedals (unlike the clipless pedals).

I apologize for such a long post and so many questions.

Thank you for all your suggestions and looking forward to another great Miyata discussion
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Old 07-20-19, 10:25 AM
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you should be able to get longer quill stems like the nitto technomic from rivendell, velo orange, even amazon. The technomic is tall, the technomic deluxe is shorter. Soma has the sutro which is 2 cm taller than usual (so 1 cm shorter than the technomic deluxe, i believe).

cages, put your foot on the pedal, slide it backwards till the hook on the pedal catches, it will flip the pedal around presenting the cage, slide your foot into cage when the pedal's flipped.
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Old 07-20-19, 10:59 AM
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okay maybe you don't actually need to put your foot on the pedal first. The point is, the toe cage will make the pedal top heavy and flip upside down. The hook on the pedal's edge is there for you to use to help flip the pedal over right side up so the cage is presented to your foot, at which point you slide it in.
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Old 07-20-19, 11:07 AM
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Amazon has Nitto technomics in 22.2 x 220 with 25.4 clamp. I believe it was $42 but it could be more or less by a couple of GWs.
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Old 07-20-19, 11:15 AM
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The bike has 54cm frame and it feels just a bit too small for me (I'm 5'9")
Sorry to say but putting any time, $$$ and effort into a bike that does not fit is a waste of all three regardless of what a "deal" it is.

A machine of that age, even a garage queen, is going to need a full overhaul of all bearing surfaces, new brake cables and pads as well as fresh safe un-dry rotted tires and tubes to be reliable.
Messing around with seatposts and stems on a bike that designed for a smaller rider sinks more time, $$$ and effort into the project that is still just the wrong size.
Cut your losses, sell it and keep looking for a 56CM is good nick.

-Bandera
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Old 07-20-19, 11:18 AM
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I'll weigh in on a few things

Yes, repack hubs, bottom bracket and headset. The last of those three will be the most difficult.

Brake pads matter. I recommend Kool Stop salmon pads.

For adjusting the RD, go to the Shimano website and look up the user manual for the rear derailleur, M-531. Follow adjustment directions to the letter
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Old 07-20-19, 11:24 AM
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Not sure I agree

Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
Sorry to say but putting any time, $$$ and effort into a bike that does not fit is a waste of all three regardless of what a "deal" it is.

A machine of that age, even a garage queen, is going to need a full overhaul of all bearing surfaces, new brake cables and pads as well as fresh safe un-dry rotted tires and tubes to be reliable.
Messing around with seatposts and stems on a bike that designed for a smaller rider sinks more time, $$$ and effort into the project that is still just the wrong size.
Cut your losses, sell it and keep looking for a 56CM is good nick.

-Bandera
I'm 5'10". My 54cm 1988 Miyata Twelve Hundred fits perfectly, as did the Miyata Team and 312 of the same size that I've had. A 56cm 210 and Six Ten were both too large (I sold the former, built up the latter for my 6'1" son). My guess is a 54cm is the correct size, but it may feel different from what the OP has been riding.
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Old 07-20-19, 11:25 AM
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VO has a quill stem with a removable face plate. You'll also need the 25.4 to 31.8 shims they sell. However, with shipping you'll be out about $100 - so you better be correct with your guess on stem length.

Or, you could ask your LBS if they have a collection of old quill stems that you could borrow and try before you buy. If you remove the existing bar tape on one side and the associated brake lever you might be able to remove the old stem and then slide the new stem over the bars before you insert the new stem into the headset - trying to minimize the hassle.

https://velo-orange.com/collections/...ceplate-31-8mm
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Old 07-20-19, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by revcp View Post
I'm 5'10". My 54cm 1988 Miyata Twelve Hundred fits perfectly, as did the Miyata Team and 312 of the same size that I've had. A 56cm 210 and Six Ten were both too large (I sold the former, built up the latter for my 6'1" son). My guess is a 54cm is the correct size, but it may feel different from what the OP has been riding.
I guess it can be different for different people. My first old bike was a Miyata 710 54cm. I am almost 5'7". I did not like it so much. But after I swapped to a taller stem, I quite like it now.

size chart that might help
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Old 07-20-19, 11:48 AM
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IMO the pedal cages are entirely unnecessary unless you're racing. I would get some decent platform pedals (Wellgo MG-1) and put those on instead.
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Old 07-20-19, 01:49 PM
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Most of these quillstems mentioned are pricey. If you are on a budget, consider this Sunlite 25.4mm tall quillstem. I'm currently using it on tour and have no problems with it whatsoever.

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Old 07-20-19, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by t1k View Post
Hi everyone.

I was lucky to come across a 1988 Miyata 615 in a pristine condition. The seller bough the bike for his wife, but for some reason she rode it only a couple of times. The bike was sitting in their basement for 31 years until they decided to sell it. Other than a few minor scratches on the frame the bike is in like new.



Could you please help me to figure out what should I do on the bike. Here's what I've done so far:
1. inspected the tubes and tires. They are in great condition: no holes, no cracks. I'm still using the original tubes and they hold air well. I'll replace the tubes just to be safe but will keep the tires for now. Reverse that. Replace the tires, usually old and dry rotted. keep the tubes
2. inspected wheels and spokes. Wheels are true and spokes are tight. Should I tighten the spokes a bit more, since they were sitting stretching for 30+ years? If they're true & tight they are usually fine
3. took apart the brakes, put some grease on brake posts, reassembled and adjusted. Kept the original brake pads. I'm not impressed with the brake performance (but I'm comparing the cantilever brakes with hydraulic disk brakes). Do you think that replacing the old pads will dramatically increase braking power? Replace the pads,old and hard as bricks - Kool stop salmon. It still won't be hydraulic discs
4. checked the BB and wheel hubs, they turn smoothly, no grinding, no clicking. I'm worried, however that the grease in the BB and hubs dried up. Is it a good idea to repack bearings anyways? Yes, regrease all bearings. BB hubs, headset, pedals. You'll need tools for this stuff, but there are alternatives.
5. had an issue switching from the third to the second smallest rear cog. Tried to adjust the rear derailleur's cable tension but the gear switching still doesn't work as smooth as I would like. Switching from the second smallest to the smallest works fine though. What could cause this weird behaviour?Friction or index shifting? Clean and lube derailleurs. new cable & housing. old ultra glide freewheel? A new Hyperglide will shift better
6. The bike has 54cm frame and it feels just a bit too small for me (I'm 5'9"). I wanted to try a setback seatpost but 26.8 posts are not that easy to find. It looks like the stock seatpost has some offset already. Does anybody know what's the stock seatpost's offset?
7. I'd like to try a longer stem to see if it will feel more comfortable. But it's hard to find a quill stem with 25.4 clamping diameter. Where do you guys source parts for Miyatas? One option I found, is to use a Nitto stem (26 mm clamp diameter) with a shim. But that feels a bit risky.
8. Is there a trick to using cage pedals? I have a hard time getting my foot into a cage once I start riding. I must be doing it wrong. Want to give cages a chance because they feel great once both feet are in: good power transfer without a feeling that your feet are nailed to the pedals (unlike the clipless pedals). You can take the clips off until you get it ready and dialed in.

I apologize for such a long post and so many questions.

Thank you for all your suggestions and looking forward to another great Miyata discussion
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Old 07-20-19, 04:18 PM
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You mentioned that you thought the 26.0 stem with a shim might be risky. If you are concerned about the safety of it, no need to worry. Plenty of people use a 26.0 stem with a 25.4 bars and a shim. I currently have one my bikes set up that way.
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Old 07-22-19, 08:35 AM
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Thank you everyone for great suggestions.

I found a longer Nitto stem on several on-line stores: ebay, bike-components (this one has very good stock and prices on tires) and small bike shop in Toronto. However, even the cheapest option is 70 Canadian dollars which is quite pricey. A friend of mine offered to borrow a stem to try. So I'll do that to see how it feels. I've rode the bike for about 100 kms on the weekend and didn't feel sore after the ride so the frame might be the correct size. It might be just a matter of getting used to a road style body position.

I've learned about tires dry rot. Never heard about the term before so I did a little research for self education. The information about the rubber dry rot is contradicting. Some people say that the tires showing signs of dry-rot should be replaced immediately. But on the Sheldon Brown web site it's said that the dry rot a cosmetic damage more than anything. Here's a quote from the S.Brown glossary:

Dry Rot

"Dry rot" is a fungus that infects cellulose-based materials: wood, paper, cotton and the like.

Sometimes people speak of bicycle tires as if they suffer from dry rot, but this is not generally correct. (The exception would be for cotton-cord tires, but those pretty much disappeared by the mid 1960s, at least as far as clinchers are concerned.)

What people commonly call "dry rot" is a deterioration of the rubber, usually on the sidewalls. This is particularly common with gumwall tires that have been exposed to ozone damage. (A common cause of this is storing a bicycle near a household furnace. The brush-type motors on such furnaces often create sparks, which in turn create ozone.)

This type of damage is ugly, but not structurally significant, as long as the cords (fabric) of the tire are intact.

Generally, if a tire isn't lumpy/misshapen when inflated, and has not had the tread area worn too thin, there is no reason to replace it, no matter how ugly the sidewalls get.
The Miya's stock tires don't show any signs of damage. They look brand new. I'll keep riding them while shopping for a new set of tires.

Speaking of tires. What what tires do you guys use and like? Do you recommend to go with a 32 mm tires or larger? I'm looking for durable puncture proof tires. I have Schwalbe marathon touring tires on my electric bike and like them a lot. But they might be too heavy for Miya.

Could you also recommend a good set of fenders? Do fenders effect the ride in any way?
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Old 07-22-19, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by rgvg View Post
okay maybe you don't actually need to put your foot on the pedal first. The point is, the toe cage will make the pedal top heavy and flip upside down. The hook on the pedal's edge is there for you to use to help flip the pedal over right side up so the cage is presented to your foot, at which point you slide it in.
Thank you for the advice. I think I'm getting hang of it. Now it takes me just a bit longer than clipping in with my SPD pedals.
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Old 07-22-19, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
Sorry to say but putting any time, $$$ and effort into a bike that does not fit is a waste of all three regardless of what a "deal" it is.
-Bandera
Thank you for your suggestion but I'm not going to sell Miya. I will, however, look for the 57cm Miyata 1000 or 610/615. Just to try how a large bike feels.

I agree that trying to fit a frame, that is couple of sizes off, is a waste of time. But 54cm is very close to my size and I'll keep experimenting with seatpost and stem to find what feels comfortable.

Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
A machine of that age, even a garage queen, is going to need a full overhaul of all bearing surfaces, new brake cables and pads as well as fresh safe un-dry rotted tires and tubes to be reliable.
-Bandera
And this is what makes me excited about the new bike. It is a beautiful piece of Japanese workmanship and I enjoy working on it.
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Old 07-22-19, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by revcp View Post
I'm 5'10". My 54cm 1988 Miyata Twelve Hundred fits perfectly, as did the Miyata Team and 312 of the same size that I've had. A 56cm 210 and Six Ten were both too large (I sold the former, built up the latter for my 6'1" son). My guess is a 54cm is the correct size, but it may feel different from what the OP has been riding.
You might be right. The more I ride the bike the better it feels. This is my first bike with a drop bar and road frame geometry.
My back just need to get used to more bent position and stop complaining
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Old 07-22-19, 09:08 AM
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Congrats on your acquisition. I have rejuvenated a half dozen Miyatas, 2 have become long-term keepers. They are wonderful bikes to tinker on ... and ride.

There are excellent posts, I don't have something new to add, but I will amplify what dedhed and others said -- disassemble the crank/bb, headset, pedals & repack/grease the entire bike. It's tempting to just start riding, but I spent at least a day doing this overhaul on each Miyata that came to me and I think it was time very well spent. I also would replace all the cables and chain too - just because. If you do this at the start it's simply done right and you can forget about these concerns long-term, then you can enjoy tweaking the components and cosmetics as time and money allows. You will have to acquire a few tools, but you'll use them in the future.

Have fun !
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Old 07-22-19, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Replace the pads,old and hard as bricks - Kool stop salmon. It still won't be hydraulic discs
Can you please point me to specific model. I tried Kool Stop Klaw 2. And the pads are too long for the front brakes - the fork gets in a way.

Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
You'll need tools for this stuff, but there are alternatives.
I've started buying tools to repack the BB. Can you be more specific on the alternatives?

Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Friction or index shifting? Clean and lube derailleurs. new cable & housing. old ultra glide freewheel? A new Hyperglide will shift better
Index shifting. I've cleaned the derailleurs. Excuse me for potentially stupid question, but are derailleurs supposed to be lubricated? Wouldn't lube on a derailleur just attract dirt? What kind of lube do you use on derailleurs?
I'm not sure what kind of a freewheel I have. It's a stock tire with 6 cogs. It's 30+ years old so I guess it's a freewheel. I'll try to lookup the wheels specs in the Miyata catalog.

Last edited by t1k; 07-25-19 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 07-22-19, 10:08 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by revcp View Post
I'm 5'10". My 54cm 1988 Miyata Twelve Hundred fits perfectly, as did the Miyata Team and 312 of the same size that I've had. A 56cm 210 and Six Ten were both too large (I sold the former, built up the latter for my 6'1" son). My guess is a 54cm is the correct size, but it may feel different from what the OP has been riding.
54cm is probably a bit small for an "average" 5' 10" male. But, there is a large range of acceptable fit, especially if you go to extremes like extra long stems. For example, I'm 5' 11", but with ridiculously long legs (35.25" cycling inseam). I need tall frames, with short top tubes. My small bike is a 57cm, while my most comfortable fits are on 62-65cm bikes, as long as the top tube stays under 58cm or so. If the OP could measure his cycling inseam, that would tell us a lot more about his "ideal" fit. That, and his intended riding style. Flat-out racing favors the smallest bike you can make fit -- both for weight and aero reasons. Casual, around town type riding favors the other end of the spectrum -- large frames to get the handle bars up higher for comfort at lower output levels.

Older bikes tended to only vary the seat tube -- i.e. a 52cm and a 62cm bike might both have a 57cm top tube. It wasn't until the mid 80s that "proportional sizing" became more common, and you started seeing things like 59cm top tubes on 60cm bikes.


I agree with some of the earlier posts, I would look for something that fit a little better first. It will take the same amount of time and money to overhaul the right size bike. If you're handy with tools and mechanical things, you're still looking at about $50 in tools, plus $50-80 in tires, pads and cables to do it right, or up to several hundred to have a bike shop do it for you. That's an expense that you won't get back if you decide it doesn't really fit down the road. Putting $100 into a $100 bike doesn't make it sell for $200, It's still a $100 bike to most folks.
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Old 07-22-19, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by t1k View Post
Can you please point me to specific model. I tried Kool Stop Klaw 2. And the pads are too long for the front brakes - the fork gets in a way. Kool Stop Continentals fit just about any old brakeset. Kool Stop International - High Performance Bicycle Brake Pads Since 1977
I've started buying tools to repack the BB. Can you be more specific on the alternatives?
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html

which BB tool for 4-notch BB circa 1985

Friction shifting. I've cleaned the derailleurs. Excuse me for potentially stupid question, but are derailleurs supposed to be lubricated? Wouldn't lube on a derailleur just attract dirt? What kind of lube do you use on derailleurs? Depends on where I'm working on it and what's available. Finish line dry or equal, tri flow, etc. just wipe off any excess. Lube pivots, jockey wheels, anything that moves. I usually do this with chain maintenance when the chain is off so I can move the derailleur by hand to work lube into it.
I'm not sure what kind of a freewheel I have. It's a stock tire with 6 cogs. It's 30+ years old so I guess it's a freewheel. I'll try to lookup the wheels specs in the Miyata catalog.Probably a freewheel, english threaded. Ultraglide has slightly twisted teeth, new hyperglde has shaped and ramped teeth.
Have at it
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Old 07-25-19, 09:22 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by FrenchFit View Post
Congrats on your acquisition. I have rejuvenated a half dozen Miyatas, 2 have become long-term keepers. They are wonderful bikes to tinker on ... and ride.

There are excellent posts, I don't have something new to add, but I will amplify what dedhed and others said -- disassemble the crank/bb, headset, pedals & repack/grease the entire bike. It's tempting to just start riding, but I spent at least a day doing this overhaul on each Miyata that came to me and I think it was time very well spent. I also would replace all the cables and chain too - just because. If you do this at the start it's simply done right and you can forget about these concerns long-term, then you can enjoy tweaking the components and cosmetics as time and money allows. You will have to acquire a few tools, but you'll use them in the future.

Have fun !


When you repack bb, headset and hubs, do you always replace the lose bearings? If not how do you assess the bearings condition?

Is there preferred kind grease I should be using?

What chain do you recommend to use? Will Shimano CN-HG71 or KMC Z8.1 chains work?
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Old 07-25-19, 09:29 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by cdmurphy View Post
54cm is probably a bit small for an "average" 5' 10" male. But, there is a large range of acceptable fit, especially if you go to extremes like extra long stems. For example, I'm 5' 11", but with ridiculously long legs (35.25" cycling inseam). I need tall frames, with short top tubes. My small bike is a 57cm, while my most comfortable fits are on 62-65cm bikes, as long as the top tube stays under 58cm or so. If the OP could measure his cycling inseam, that would tell us a lot more about his "ideal" fit. That, and his intended riding style. Flat-out racing favors the smallest bike you can make fit -- both for weight and aero reasons. Casual, around town type riding favors the other end of the spectrum -- large frames to get the handle bars up higher for comfort at lower output levels.

Older bikes tended to only vary the seat tube -- i.e. a 52cm and a 62cm bike might both have a 57cm top tube. It wasn't until the mid 80s that "proportional sizing" became more common, and you started seeing things like 59cm top tubes on 60cm bikes.


I agree with some of the earlier posts, I would look for something that fit a little better first. It will take the same amount of time and money to overhaul the right size bike. If you're handy with tools and mechanical things, you're still looking at about $50 in tools, plus $50-80 in tires, pads and cables to do it right, or up to several hundred to have a bike shop do it for you. That's an expense that you won't get back if you decide it doesn't really fit down the road. Putting $100 into a $100 bike doesn't make it sell for $200, It's still a $100 bike to most folks.
My inseam (in cycling shorts) is 32". The height of the bike (from the top tube to the ground) just under 32". Does that mean that the frame is the right size for me? This approach does not take into account my torso length and the length of the frame top tube.
My racing style? I'm using the bike for commuting. But I already have two comfortable, long and stable cross bikes. So Miyata is my racier/fast/fun bike for the nice weather days.
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Old 07-25-19, 09:35 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Kool Stop Continentals fit just about any old brakeset.
Thank you for the pads advice and the link. Looks like the Kool Stop Continentals pads come with threaded posts only. Will they work with cantilever brakes designed for smooth posts?
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Old 07-25-19, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by t1k View Post
My inseam (in cycling shorts) is 32". The height of the bike (from the top tube to the ground) just under 32". Does that mean that the frame is the right size for me? This approach does not take into account my torso length and the length of the frame top tube.
My racing style? I'm using the bike for commuting. But I already have two comfortable, long and stable cross bikes. So Miyata is my racier/fast/fun bike for the nice weather days.
Well, bike fit is kind of a can of worms. A lot depends on how you are riding, i.e. high output racing calls for a more forward position, where you can use your legs to provide upward force to counteract gravity pulling on your torso. That same position when just poking along at 10-12 mph will result in you having to hold your torso up with your arms, and will soon be very uncomfortable.

You might want to try the online fit calculator at Competive Cyclist: https://www.competitivecyclist.com/S...ulatorBike.jsp

It's not perfect, but if you're careful with the measurements, it will get you pretty close. The good news is that if your inseam is 32", and you're 5'10", then you are very average in terms of leg to torso length. That means you won't have to do anything wacky like super long seat posts or really tall stems to get a decent fit on most bikes. I still think a 56 is probably closer to your "ideal" size, but a 54 would certainly work, but might not be as comfortable for long efforts with the lower bars.

Generally, standover height (The height of the top of the top tube) doesn't make a lot of difference to bike fit. It's nice to have enough room to straddle the bike without any uncomfortable contact, but that isn't always possible. (Folks with short legs for their height generally need frames too tall to straddle comfortably). On the other end, folks with long legs like me will have tons of room on most frames, as we often need to ride smaller frames, to get a short enough top tube.

Modern bikes throw a lot of this out the window, with their sloping top tubes. This lets them put the handlebars wherever they want, in relation to the seat tube. But, your Miyata is one of the classic, level top tube bikes, where the seat tube length generally determined where the handlebars wound up. If you want the bars lower, you'll need a shorter frame, and a longer stem to make up for the shorter top tube. Going the other way, if you want the bars up higher for more comfort at lower intensities, then you'll want a taller frame, and maybe a shorter stem if the top tube is longer.

Just where "you" want the bars is the big unknown. Some of this will be a matter of your physiology, and much of it will be personal preference, and your conditioning (core strength, flexibility, injuries, etc). As a rough guideline, the harder you are riding or pushing yourself, the further forward or lower you will want the bars. This will help keep you balanced at higher output levels, and cut down on wind resistance (unimportant at low speeds, but hugely important once you get over ~25 mph)

Also, time in the saddle makes a big difference. Positions that are comfortable after years of riding may be torture for a new rider, or positions that are comfortable for 25 miles, may be agony at 70 or 80 miles. All the bike fittings and formulas in the world won't tell you what is most comfortable to "you". Most experienced cyclists arrive at a good fit through a lot of trial and error. If you go out for a long ride, and something really hurts, then it's time to do some research as to why it's hurting, then try changing something to fix it. Eventually you get fitter, and your bike gets adjusted better, and you reach a compromise that is generally comfortable.

Then it's a great idea to really measure the important contact points, so you can set new bikes up the same, or at least close. (At a minimum, you want to know saddle height - either crank center to saddle top, or pedal to saddle top, saddle setback (distance from saddle nose to bottom bracket - horizontally.), handlebar height, and handlebar distance from either the saddle nose, or the bottom bracket, again, horizontally). With those numbers, it's pretty easy to duplicate a particular position on another bike.
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