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Raleigh - is it a Grand Prix or a Super Course?

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Raleigh - is it a Grand Prix or a Super Course?

Old 08-07-19, 03:59 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
Ouch. I think yes, run away!
I looked at it and can't be 100% sure that it's split. Given the bubbling of the paint around that area (probably from lack of adhesion to the chrome), I think it's just paint flaking off in a very deceptive way.

I could be wrong.

-Kurt
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Old 08-07-19, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
I looked at it and can't be 100% sure that it's split. Given the bubbling of the paint around that area (probably from lack of adhesion to the chrome), I think it's just paint flaking off in a very deceptive way.

I could be wrong.

-Kurt
My thought as well.
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Old 08-07-19, 05:00 PM
  #28  
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I emailed seller because rustystrings 61 wants it. Haven't got a reply back maybe seller is done with me.

If still in sellers good graces will hopefully see it tomorrow afternoon\evening. I saw that spot and will only take if no obvious cracks or breaks or bends or god knows what....
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Old 08-08-19, 07:24 PM
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More Raleigh Pix

Looks to be white where the paint is chipped at lugs




Loosened bolt and applied some penetrating oil....26.6 to 26.8 diameter vs. 26.4 for my 72 SC


Seat tube ding


27" Weinmann rims on Normandy hubs; TDC 14-28 freewheel


Round-oval-round chainstays with indent for chainwheel. Same as my 72 SC
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Old 08-08-19, 07:42 PM
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White would seem to indicate the Grand Sports/Gran Sport.

Any word on the fitness of the dropout?

If you plan to repaint it, that'd be a great opportunity to roll out the dent in the seattube and fill the cracks in the seatstay caps with silver solder too.

-Kurt
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Old 08-08-19, 07:47 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
White would seem to indicate the Grand Sports/Gran Sport.

Any word on the fitness of the dropout?

-Kurt
The dropouts are fine. Just flaking paint. Serial # on NDS dropout:0009188
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Old 08-08-19, 08:30 PM
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Is this like birdwatching when if you doubt for a moment that the eagle is a buzzard then it becomes a buzzard?
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Old 08-08-19, 08:30 PM
  #33  
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D'OH, we've had a '75 (-ish) Gran Sport for over 30 years, and I never noticed it had stamped dropouts. Seems so cheap for an all-531 frame.

Anyway, rear triangle and main lug work look a lot like our GS, but the fork lugs are completely different.
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Old 08-08-19, 09:21 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
D'OH, we've had a '75 (-ish) Gran Sport for over 30 years, and I never noticed it had stamped dropouts. Seems so cheap for an all-531 frame.

Anyway, rear triangle and main lug work look a lot like our GS, but the fork lugs are completely different.
Early ones were Zeus or Simplex. Then they went to the bog-standard stamped drop of the Super Course and everything below it.

It probably streamlined production so they could produce all-531 frames quickly and sell them cheaper than the next guy. Relying on their own stamped dropout = no logistical issues or extra costs from dealing with outside suppliers.

Or not. Sometimes, you can't explain Raleigh's decisions with rational explanations.


-Kurt
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Old 08-08-19, 09:27 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by madpogue View Post

Anyway, rear triangle and main lug work look a lot like our GS, but the fork lugs are completely different.
Iíve seen at least two different crowns used, this simpler one and what I think was a Vagner PL variant.
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Old 08-09-19, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Sometimes, you can't explain Raleigh's decisions with rational explanations.
"Stout" is a perfectly rational explanation, as is "Watneys".
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Old 08-09-19, 08:55 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by rustystrings61 View Post
Iíve seen at least two different crowns used, this simpler one and what I think was a Vagner PL variant.
And I went and looked and this bike has the Vagner DP + losange fraise - the other crown I've seen on these bikes is the Vagner no. 11. Not that I'm OCD about these things or anything ... though I do find it funny that this is probably a 1973, and the Competition I've been monkeying around with is a 1973, and I got my very first drop-bar road bike in - yup, 1973.

Schreck83 and I are working something out. This could be a fun project!
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Old 08-09-19, 12:21 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Early ones were Zeus or Simplex. Then they went to the bog-standard stamped drop of the Super Course and everything below it.

It probably streamlined production so they could produce all-531 frames quickly and sell them cheaper than the next guy. Relying on their own stamped dropout = no logistical issues or extra costs from dealing with outside suppliers.

Or not. Sometimes, you can't explain Raleigh's decisions with rational explanations.


-Kurt
I have at least two examples of models that are above the Super Course that do not have forged dropouts. There's a 1971 Competition (lilac) that has Zeus Competicion dropouts, and a Grand Sports (with no serial number to be found on the frame or dropouts) that has forged dropouts that I can't make out the markings on. I had thought this was 1973-ish, but frankly am not certain.
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Old 08-13-19, 05:12 PM
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I have the Grand Sport stripped down to the bare frame. With the fork and headset (no BB) it weighs 7 lbs. 2 oz. I measured my '72 SuperCourse, which is also a 23.5" frame, to be 7 lbs. 13 oz. That is a difference you can feel when you lift them.
Based on the SN, the GS is a 1973 model. The frame geometry between these two frames is the same, except the GS wheelbase is longer at 41.5" vs. 41" for the SC. The GS top tube is 1/4" longer and the fork has 2.5" rake instead of 2.25" on the SC. The GS head tube is 1/4" longer also. Overall, this GS is a stretched version of the SC with a lighter tubeset.
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Old 08-13-19, 10:14 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by rustystrings61 View Post
And I went and looked and this bike has the Vagner DP + losange fraise - the other crown I've seen on these bikes is the Vagner no. 11. Not that I'm OCD about these things or anything ... though I do find it funny that this is probably a 1973, and the Competition I've been monkeying around with is a 1973, and I got my very first drop-bar road bike in - yup, 1973.

Schreck83 and I are working something out. This could be a fun project!
I got my first bike with Drop Bars, and Disraeli Gears in 1973. And it was a Raleigh, of the new old stock 1969 Green smallest framed International kind, from 3 speed Sturmey-Archer IGH, to Disreali gears of the Campagnolo Nuovo Record kind. $200 with panniers and rack bought with my second paycheck at 9 years old as broadcast engineer assistant and announcer, and the only special needs schoolboy with keys to the building, and a job after school and on weekends. ($9 per hour in 1973, my ticket to higher learning, still in the same profession). Rode that bike to 1978, when I outgrew it. Afternoon announcer at work bought it from me in 1978 (still rides it daily, maintains it well like I have). I miss my 531, and my International, if I find one I can afford, my size, I plan on restoring it and riding it like it was 1970 something.
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