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Unusual Shogun (I think) maybe a 3000?

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Unusual Shogun (I think) maybe a 3000?

Old 08-10-19, 11:09 PM
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Unusual Shogun (I think) maybe a 3000?

I just found this on OfferUp. And I was doing so well with my purge. Minus six, plus two- I guess I shouldn't beat my self up too badly. I could use a little collective knowledge to tell me if I'm on the right track with this bike.

Any transfers were lost when the frame was repainted. The serial number S1E5111 follows the S(2) format in T-Mar's Asian s/n guide and is on the lower left of seat tube. Based on the s/n and it's location I think it may be a 1981 Shogun. It sports 7110 Dura Ace hubs, shifters, calipers and crankset with FA and FB date codes, which has me thinking they are probably original, indicating a model 3000. The derailleurs are NR and currently stuck seatpost is also Campy. The headset is Tange Ritzy and I suspect original to bike.

I don't know what features of the frame might be clues to it being a Shogun 3000. The rear dropouts are Shimano EP. The fork has Tange TP-R ends and the crown has two points rather than the typical one point on Shoguns. There are long reinforcers on the inside of the blades. The brake bridge ends are reinforced. I can"t reliably measure the seatpost yet but it looks to be 26.8mm.

Here is one of the pics from the ad. Yes, I know, the pedals...

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Old 08-11-19, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Insidious C. View Post
I just found this on OfferUp. And I was doing so well with my purge. Minus six, plus two- I guess I shouldn't beat my self up too badly. I could use a little collective knowledge to tell me if I'm on the right track with this bike.

Any transfers were lost when the frame was repainted. The serial number S1E5111 follows the S(2) format in T-Mar's Asian s/n guide and is on the lower left of seat tube. Based on the s/n and it's location I think it may be a 1981 Shogun. It sports 7110 Dura Ace hubs, shifters, calipers and crankset with FA and FB date codes, which has me thinking they are probably original, indicating a model 3000. The derailleurs are NR and currently stuck seatpost is also Campy. The headset is Tange Ritzy and I suspect original to bike.

I don't know what features of the frame might be clues to it being a Shogun 3000. The rear dropouts are Shimano EP. The fork has Tange TP-R ends and the crown has two points rather than the typical one point on Shoguns. There are long reinforcers on the inside of the blades. The brake bridge ends are reinforced. I can"t reliably measure the seatpost yet but it looks to be 26.8mm.

Here is one of the pics from the ad. Yes, I know, the pedals...
I recently picked up an 81 Shogun frame. SN is on lower left seat tube, S1G5386. Dropouts are Shimano EF, 2 points on crown, no reinforcements on blades or brake bridge, 26.8 post. I have no idea what the model is.
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Old 08-11-19, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by droppedandlost View Post
I recently picked up an 81 Shogun frame. SN is on lower left seat tube, S1G5386. Dropouts are Shimano EF, 2 points on crown, no reinforcements on blades or brake bridge, 26.8 post. I have no idea what the model is.
That sounds very similar. I didn't realize when I started the topic that Shogun was the only marque linked to the S(2) format in the s/n guide. It's strange that so little information can be found on these bikes. Here are the crown and bridge details. Wheels are 27". Fork is chrome plated, not sure about stays.


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Old 08-11-19, 03:32 PM
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Do you have the bike? Should be two horizontal rivet holes on head tube, about 40mm apart
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Old 08-11-19, 04:00 PM
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If it's a Shogun 3000 then it would be a Tange 1 or Tange 2 frame and, in that size should weigh around 24 lbs. Take the seat off and plug the seat tube. Take off the bottom bracket. Turn bike upside down. Pour about a cup of diesel fuel in the seat tube. Let it soak for a week or two. Drain. Take a pipe wrench to seat post & see if you can break it free.
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Old 08-11-19, 06:10 PM
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Serial numbers on the side of the lower part of seat tube is a trademark of Kuwahara built bikes.
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Old 08-11-19, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by droppedandlost View Post
Do you have the bike? Should be two horizontal rivet holes on head tube, about 40mm apart
Yes, it followed me home. I tried rubbing the head tube with acetone but the paint is to tough. When I get a chance I will pull the fork and peek inside the head tube and check for rivet holes.

Originally Posted by ramzilla View Post
If it's a Shogun 3000 then it would be a Tange 1 or Tange 2 frame and, in that size should weigh around 24 lbs. Take the seat off and plug the seat tube. Take off the bottom bracket. Turn bike upside down. Pour about a cup of diesel fuel in the seat tube. Let it soak for a week or two. Drain. Take a pipe wrench to seat post & see if you can break it free.
My scale says 23lbs with cheapo CST tires and rat trap pedals. I like your method for unsticking the seatpost. Thought of a pipe wrench on a Campy post makes me cringe tho.
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Old 08-13-19, 07:22 AM
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I'd say that Shogun is the leading candidate given the serial number format but Shogun was a marketing brand owned by Marui, a Japanese trading company. There was no Shogun factory. The frames were contract manufactured and consequently, there were almost certainly other brands originating from the same source, even if they haven''t surfaced on BF, yet.

The format is incorrect for Kuwahara and there were many other manufacturers who used the lower seat tube location for serial numbers. It was not unique to Kuwahara.

Based on the post size, the frame is likely Tange #1 or Tange #2 , as previously suggested. Visible characteristics are consistent with a high end model, though 27" wheels are curious. The fork crown appears to be a Tange C-10. The crown, in conjunction with TF-R (not TP-R) dropouts suggests a stock Tange fork, so the steerer tube will almost certainly have a date code to corroborate the S/N.
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Old 08-13-19, 11:50 AM
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The steerer is in fact stamped 1C. March 81? I found surprising amount of info on Shogun s/n's on a BMX site. They listed several frame builders with corresponding s/n location and attributed the seat tube location to Apollo. I will post a link here later.

Remnants of head badge rivets are visible inside the head tube. Horizontally opposed like Shogun badge. Original paint on steered is deep blue pearl.
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Old 08-13-19, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Insidious C. View Post
The steerer is in fact stamped 1C. March 81? I found surprising amount of info on Shogun s/n's on a BMX site. They listed several frame builders with corresponding s/n location and attributed the seat tube location to Apollo. I will post a link here later.

Remnants of head badge rivets are visible inside the head tube. Horizontally opposed like Shogun badge. Original paint on steered is deep blue pearl.
Yes, that would be march 1981 and a good match for the frame's serial number.

Apollo was a Canadian brand owned by Fred Deeley Cycles Ltd. of Vancouver. Deeley was a bicycle and motorcycle distributor who created the Apollo bicycle brand circa 1970. The Apollo bicycles were all contract manufactured with Kuwahara being the prime source. As noted, Kuwahara did utilize the seat tube location for serial numbers in the 1980s but it was not unique to them and, in this case, the format is incorrect. The shop that I managed in the mid-1970s carried Apollo.
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Old 08-13-19, 04:19 PM
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Thank you. I made a booboo. The info about serial numbers I referred to related to Kuwahara, not Shogun.
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Old 08-13-19, 05:31 PM
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My fork is stamped 1H

Also just tried to put a 27" wheel in and couldn't. Tires measure 27mm wide and even compressing the tire pretty hard I was still a few mm shy of getting the axle around the dropout tips. I would guess 700x25 would be the max that would fit in my frame.
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Old 08-13-19, 08:27 PM
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It's hard to try and figure out the provenance of vintage Japanese bicycles. Japanese manufacturers were building millions of bikes by the 80's for all sorts of US & International companies. (And, completely cornered the entire bike manufacturing industry by the end of the 90's). There was a very special time around the mid 1980's in Japan when they produced the finest bicycles ever made. These bikes wore many different name plates. Shogun, Centurion, Univega, Miyata, Sekine, Apollo, etc, etc. etc............. Bottom line, check for lightweight lugged frames below 24 lb. alloy hubs & wheels, forged dropouts, nice alloy cotterless cranksets, beautiful paint jobs and, other high quality features. There were a lot of fine Japanese bicycle companies back then. One of my personal faves was Kuwahara. (They built some of the finest Schwinn bikes ever made).

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Old 08-14-19, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ramzilla View Post
....There were a lot of fine Japanese bicycle companies back then. One of my personal faves was Kuwahara. (They built some of the finest Schwinn bikes ever made).
Kuwahara built for Schwinn? I've seen Bridgestone and M-a-t-s-u-s-h-i-t-a (Panasonic) manufactured Schwinns but not Kuwahara. While they contract manufactured many brands, Kuwahara are best known for being a source for Apollo, Azuki, Concord, Soma and Takara.
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Old 08-14-19, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
Kuwahara built for Schwinn? I've seen Bridgestone and M-a-t-s-u-s-h-i-t-a (Panasonic) manufactured Schwinns but not Kuwahara. While they contract manufactured many brands, Kuwahara are best known for being a source for Apollo, Azuki, Concord, Soma and Takara.
I own an old Kuwahara bike and, it's a very well built item. So, I've been curious about the company. Just reading stuff on the internet indicates Kuwahara was a contract builder for Schwinn starting in 1968.

https://www.flitebmx.com/pages/kuwahara

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuwaha...cycle_company)

But, I really have no idea what Schwinn models were built by them.
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