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Guerciotti BB Crack?

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Guerciotti BB Crack?

Old 12-19-19, 04:04 AM
  #101  
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It's 4am or so and Jim From Boston isn't up yet so I can't do the multi-quote properly Let me see if I get all the questions answered.

I had seen Jack's work for many years, sometimes ahead, sometimes behind. Our racing team based in Dayton, Ohio came up against FBCI quite often (Franklin Bicycle Club Incorporated, named for the county Columbus is in). We had a local Ten Speed Drive Imports sponsor so most of us rode Gerch's and the other brands they carried. As a side note, even during the years when Huffy owned the USA name of Raleigh and we were sponsored by them, I still rode my Italian bikes from TSDI. I used the Raleigh frames we got as winter beaters. When this opportunity presented itself, I knew Jack was guy for the job because of his skills and our erstwhile connection his frames and I had from long ago. The photo in post #57 is a pic of me going with a guy on a break, of the two guys behind me, one is riding a Franklin; I'm on one of my Gerch's that the blue on the restored frame matches. Time and disease has taken some of the engine but I'm good with it.

I dropped the frame off on August 28th of this year. That said, it took two months for him to source a BB with Italian threading and the correct chainstay sockets (if that's what you call them). Jack used a drill and hand files to cut out the star in the BB to replicate the original. When I dropped off the frame and fork to Jack I told him all the things I wanted, of course the repairs, the chrome, color, the brake stops etc. He wrote notes on an envelope that already had writing on it and told me "it's no big deal" I guess when you have that kind of talent it isn't but I'm here to tell you that guy is gonna build me a frame with larger tire clearance and disc brakes.

I loved the color of my old Gerch so much that I wanted the fork painted as opposed to being completely chrome but the fork crown (in my eyes) accomplishes a good blend of both. I know some may not believe it but I can feel a difference between a rear brake with cables stops vs one with a full length of housing. The other thing is the top cable guides wind up holding sweat and being a problem down the road. Knowing I was replacing a tube (and possibly a BB shell) as well as paint, I felt I wasn't really sacrificing the bike's originality so I opted for the cable stops. As far as value for this or any of my bikes, that's someone else's problem, hopefully many years from now

In the next few days I'll spray some framesaver in it and install the headset; after New Years I'll get on it in earnest. I'm glad it turned out the way it did. The money? Not as much as you would think and when I saw the finished product I thought "I haven't paid this guy enough for all the work he did". I just can't say enough about Jack/Franklin Frame, that guy is a master craftsman. In the end I feel I've "atoned" a tiny bit for the way I treated some very nice bikes when I was racing. Back then, my ability to make them do what they did was my most valuable possession. The bike itself was nothing but a tool to be used, abused and cast off when the next one arrived. Now that I'm older and my best days are behind me (in terms of ability) I feel a connection to the machines even though they're inanimate objects. Come spring, I won't remember the time, trouble or expense it took to put this bike right. All that will remain is the beat my heart skips every time I look at it or the occasional experience of descending down a hill at 45+ mph with a friend like synchronized swimmers or the tailwind assisted 30 mph ride back into the small town I'm from after hours of riding.

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Old 12-19-19, 06:14 AM
  #102  
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Congrats on a great save and a gorgeous bike that is even more valuable with the memories! Love the blue!
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Old 12-19-19, 06:39 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by scarlson View Post
You called it



This is from my thread about my commuter Holdsworth/Claud Butler. The bronze braze filler didn't penetrate all the way through under the lug, so the lug cracked due to fatigue. While economics/pricing suggest that a Guerch' shouldn't suffer from this sort of bad workmanship, you never know.

In addition, if it is a crack in the lug due to bad brazing, the tubes beneath should not be cracked. This means that you wouldn't be able to tell by looking inside the bottom bracket.

If you are going to strip and repaint it anyway, why not file/chip away the paint there to investigate?
According to Jack, you were exactly right!
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Old 12-19-19, 06:53 AM
  #104  
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Beautiful work. I have an early ‘70’s Guerciotti I’ll be sending out to Franklin for paint and chrome work.
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Old 12-19-19, 07:00 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by satbuilder View Post
Beautiful work. I have an early Ď70ís Guerciotti Iíll be sending out to Franklin for paint and chrome work.
You won't be disappointed in any way.
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Old 03-21-20, 12:42 PM
  #106  
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Alright, it's 1430 hours on 03-21-2020 and I'm sitting here with a glass of wine (I know it's too early) and nearly at the conclusion to this adventure. I say near conclusion because it isn't over until I take it on the first ride and there's still too much salt on the road for that. The following pics are in stark contrast to what tumbled out of a bike box and caused my heart to hit the floor. I don't know how much money I have tied up in it and I decided early on I didn't care; I was going to save this bike come hell or high water. Looking at what I have now, knowing everything that went into it, I'm very, very pleased at the outcome. I can't say that I'm ready to do it all over again at this very moment, but I will for the right bike. The way I see it, we're just caretakers of these machines. To be sure, all of mine are ridden with the strength I have left at this point but they're also cared for so the next enthusiast who owns them will appreciate what I did, not curse my name

On the first sunny day with clean roads I'll take some better photos where the backdrop isn't may garage door. The sun really makes Jack's paint job pop.







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Old 03-21-20, 12:49 PM
  #107  
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I would like to thank all that helped me along in this project; urging me to go forward when I needed a little push. Most of all for not saying what some may have been thinking, "he's got more money than brains".





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Old 03-21-20, 01:25 PM
  #108  
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Wow! That looks great, Allan. Can't wait to see it on the road. Is it a maybe for the Bourbon ride?
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Old 03-21-20, 01:30 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by speedevil View Post
Wow! That looks great, Allan. Can't wait to see it on the road. Is it a maybe for the Bourbon ride?
Thank you Dale. Yes it's a contender if the conditions are good. I'm not ready to beat on this one just yet
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Old 03-21-20, 01:46 PM
  #110  
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I don't fault you one bit for that. I have some I'm not going to beat on either, but there are a couple that could be beaten if necessary. Remember last year's HH?
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Old 03-21-20, 02:26 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by nomadmax View Post
To be sure, all of mine are ridden with the strength I have left at this point but they're also cared for so the next enthusiast who owns them will appreciate what I did, not curse my name
Well said. Great result and the black groupset was an excellent choice.
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Old 03-21-20, 08:33 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by nomadmax View Post
Most of all for not saying what some may have been thinking, "he's got more money than brains".
I think that ship sailed before the Gerc showed up.

Background, folks:
I have known the seller of that Gerc for about 10 years. I helped him a bit with advice when he was "restoring" the Gerc and a Cinelli Equipe Centurion. I gave him a standing offer on the Equipe, but he said he was going to give it to his son. He had a jersey made for me, but we lost touch over the years.

Years pass and an Equipe came up for sale here on BF, sort of. A member queried me about value before/after restoration, and I made an offer, picked it up. As I went through the box of parts, the brake pads, decals (that I created) and hoods I recommended showed up, not that I remembered right away. The envelope for the Velocals had the return address of the same man I helped with restoration advice 10 years ago. Seems I ended up with the bike after all...

So, when nomadmax mentioned the Gerc, I vouched for the seller and the bike. Turns out his definition of condition differs from Allan's and mine. I still feel bad about the expense Allan went through. I find some relief knowing that the bike is prettier now than it would ever be in the original green and orange.. At least there is a good ending.

It couldn't be with a better owner. I have seen it in person, and the pictures don't come close to how great it is.

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Old 03-21-20, 09:20 PM
  #113  
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Man, I didnít make it through the whole thread (Iíve had more wine than you) but it sounds like you did a proper restoration based on love of the game. For that I salute you. Still, I wonder if the bb was cracked? I say it was just the paint, but if Iím wrong Iíll edit this post to correct my historical record.
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Old 03-22-20, 04:03 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
I think that ship sailed before the Gerc showed up.

Background, folks:
I have known the seller of that Gerc for about 10 years. I helped him a bit with advice when he was "restoring" the Gerc and a Cinelli Equipe Centurion. I gave him a standing offer on the Equipe, but he said he was going to give it to his son. He had a jersey made for me, but we lost touch over the years.

Years pass and an Equipe came up for sale here on BF, sort of. A member queried me about value before/after restoration, and I made an offer, picked it up. As I went through the box of parts, the brake pads, decals (that I created) and hoods I recommended showed up, not that I remembered right away. The envelope for the Velocals had the return address of the same man I helped with restoration advice 10 years ago. Seems I ended up with the bike after all...

So, when nomadmax mentioned the Gerc, I vouched for the seller and the bike. Turns out his definition of condition differs from Allan's and mine. I still feel bad about the expense Allan went through. I find some relief knowing that the bike is prettier now than it would ever be in the original green and orange.. At least there is a good ending.

It couldn't be with a better owner. I have seen it in person, and the pictures don't come close to how great it is.
Let me clear the air here. I originally saw the bike on Atlanta CL and contacted a member here @embankmentlb who actually designed the original colorway for the race team that got all the bikes from TSDI. The team was the North Georgia Wheelmen out of Gainesville Schwinn in Gainesville, Ga. I had the bike simmering in the back of my mind thinking about a drive to Atlanta. Fast forward to Robbie getting in touch and telling me of said bike, knowing I'm a Gerch fan. From there I made contact and arranged to go see the bike. Just before I was to leave, the seller became a fan of shipping the bike in lieu of me coming down. I can't say why that was, maybe he was uncomfortable having someone come to his house or I sounded like a felon on the phone, who knows.

I've never really been a fan of shipping bikes for two reasons; one, your EC and my EC may be two different kinds of "excellent condition". That's not to say that all sellers are want to stretch the truth; some are just ignorant to things that really affect value/desirability in a negative way. The second reason I'm not a fan of shipping bikes is my wife works in the shipping business and has worked at every big name company you can think of off the top of your head. The way things are handled and beat would make you cringe. When I'm buying a vintage bike I don't want the insurance money, I want the bike, I have money, I don't have the bike. That's why I'll drive 700 miles one way for the right bike.

The bike was shipped and the problems were documented. I contacted the seller and he offered to GIVE me the bike and refund my money. I can't take something for nothing so I insisted he keep what I would have paid had I come and looked at the bike, he agreed and refunded me the difference. So the suggestion from Robbie that the seller an honest man was 100% right on the money. The decision to save the bike was 100% me, I could have had the bike for nothing and let it hang on the wall. I'm the one who wanted to pay fair market value for a damaged bike and then sink more into it. For the record, I'm even happier today than I was yesterday for doing it. I've already been in the basement/gym where it resides next to Robbie's Merckx he has here to ride when he visits.


Originally Posted by jethin View Post
Man, I didn’t make it through the whole thread (I’ve had more wine than you) but it sounds like you did a proper restoration based on love of the game. For that I salute you. Still, I wonder if the bb was cracked? I say it was just the paint, but if I’m wrong I’ll edit this post to correct my historical record.
Yes the BB was cracked and had to be replaced. The brazing had failed at the down tube and the resultant pedaling forces caused the crack in the shell. Jack had to source another BB which he drilled and filed a Guerciotti star into. He also replaced the right side chain stay, did some chroming, aligned and then painted and decaled. As soon as these roads are clear she's going out on her maiden voyage. I can't wait.


@embankmentlb can you post the photos of your bike and the jersey in this thread for anyone who might come along later?

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Old 03-22-20, 08:00 AM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by nomadmax View Post
Let me clear the air here. I originally saw the bike on Atlanta CL and contacted a member here @embankmentlb who actually designed the original colorway for the race team that got all the bikes from TSDI. The team was the North Georgia Wheelmen out of Gainesville Schwinn in Gainesville, Ga. I had the bike simmering in the back of my mind thinking about a drive to Atlanta. Fast forward to Robbie getting in touch and telling me of said bike, knowing I'm a Gerch fan. From there I made contact and arranged to go see the bike. Just before I was to leave, the seller became a fan of shipping the bike in lieu of me coming down. I can't say why that was, maybe he was uncomfortable having someone come to his house or I sounded like a felon on the phone, who knows.

I've never really been a fan of shipping bikes for two reasons; one, your EC and my EC may be two different kinds of "excellent condition". That's not to say that all sellers are want to stretch the truth; some are just ignorant to things that really affect value/desirability in a negative way. The second reason I'm not a fan of shipping bikes is my wife works in the shipping business and has worked at every big name company you can think of off the top of your head. The way things are handled and beat would make you cringe. When I'm buying a vintage bike I don't want the insurance money, I want the bike, I have money, I don't have the bike. That's why I'll drive 700 miles one way for the right bike.

The bike was shipped and the problems were documented. I contacted the seller and he offered to GIVE me the bike and refund my money. I can't take something for nothing so I insisted he keep what I would have paid had I come and looked at the bike, he agreed and refunded me the difference. So the suggestion from Robbie that the seller an honest man was 100% right on the money. The decision to save the bike was 100% me, I could have had the bike for nothing and let it hang on the wall. I'm the one who wanted to pay fair market value for a damaged bike and then sink more into it. For the record, I'm even happier today than I was yesterday for doing it. I've already been in the basement/gym where it resides next to Robbie's Merckx he has here to ride when he visits.




Yes the BB was cracked and had to be replaced. The brazing had failed at the down tube and the resultant pedaling forces caused the crack in the shell. Jack had to source another BB which he drilled and filed a Guerciotti star into. He also replaced the right side chain stay, did some chroming, aligned and then painted and decaled. As soon as these roads are clear she's going out on her maiden voyage. I can't wait.


@embankmentlb can you post the photos of your bike and the jersey in this thread for anyone who might come along later?
Your bike turned out super nice! I really like that blue color.
Attached is the the original team bike. We picked the colors to stand out in the peloton. To make things worse most of the team added Neon yellow accents to their bikes as was the style then. Back then when retail stores would advertise televisions in print ads one Atlanta store use a photo of our team members in a race as the tv scene for a seres of ads. We all felt pretty jazzed and felt almost famous. It was a fun time.
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Old 03-22-20, 08:26 AM
  #116  
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Thank you for the pics Should you ever hear of a NGW jersey come up for sale (regardless of size) please let me know. It's a big part of this bike's history and I don't want it, or your contribution, to be forgotten.
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Old 04-03-20, 06:26 AM
  #117  
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Yesterday my Gerch saw the light of day and open road again. A perfect end to the project and new beginning for an old warhorse, the bike not me





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Old 04-03-20, 07:01 AM
  #118  
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Nice job!
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