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Newbie Intolerant...

Old 09-03-19, 03:49 PM
  #76  
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@cinco clearly didn't actually read the thread at all, or else he's got some very dark sunglasses on.

Virtually no one in this thread has said anything about not wanting to help people who are new to vintage cycling or to this forum in general, myself included.

The most "opposition" that's been presented has been the rather pertinent suggestion that if someone is seeking help, they should be willing to sacrifice a bit of their time in order for help to be rendered. This is done as a precaution to keep SPAM off of this forum, and that is something no thoughtful person - whether a new or an experienced member - wants to see.

It's also worth noting that a lot of us who are apparently so "toxic" actually pay to support this forum, and have already invested a lot of time into helping others by answering all kinds of inquiries from members of all experience levels. I suspect most of us (myself included) plan on continuing to do so no matter what the rules are, as long as they remain reasonable.

-Gregory
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Old 09-03-19, 03:55 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by cinco View Post
Read it again, but change the word "bitterness" to "toxicity". Much of what I've seen is a bunch of people who think they're important complaining about the inconvenience of helping people. That attitude probably drives away more good new members than the post-count thing. Randyjawa, so far, is the only person who's come out strongly in favor of helping people, and it was suggested that he is wasting his time. When people like him are in the minority, as they seem to be, things tend not to improve over time. I see more arrogance and entitlement among the high-post-count users than the newbies around here.
If you are going to thinly veil your criticism of my opinions in the same thread, perhaps you can have the decency to mention me by name.

Randy, despite his admittedly wonderful generosity towards others - and I don't fault him for this at all - is wasting his time as far as changing BikeForums is concerned. Any requests for the rule to be changed was rendered moot when @cb400bill stepped in with his very fair and understandable justification for why the rule exists. I've been a mod on a few much smaller forums in the past, and it was a huge handful that consumed an hour of my day, every day. Continuing to insist that the moderators should change the policy - knowing that it'll make their daily burden an impossible task - is not only a waste of time, but self-centered as well.

But perhaps they'll let you be a mod, so you can help people too!

It is not out of the question to ask new members for a bit of genuine participation - and don't take my word for it - @TriBiker19 put it better than I ever could.

-Kurt
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Old 09-03-19, 04:54 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by cinco View Post
Read it again, but change the word "bitterness" to "toxicity". Much of what I've seen is a bunch of people who think they're important complaining about the inconvenience of helping people. That attitude probably drives away more good new members than the post-count thing. Randyjawa, so far, is the only person who's come out strongly in favor of helping people, and it was suggested that he is wasting his time. When people like him are in the minority, as they seem to be, things tend not to improve over time. I see more arrogance and entitlement among the high-post-count users than the newbies around here.
Toxicity my ass. We're asking newbies to (1) be a little patient and (2) contribute a little of their own information. Help them to help themselves. You're familiar with this concept, yes?

Now we're bitter and full of toxicity if we expect newbies to follow the rules and make an attempt at contributing. Sheesh. Pooey-stinko, this is getting stupid

DD
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Old 09-03-19, 04:59 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by nomadmax View Post
I post photos right from the computer? Here's one:




not being ridiculed as being weird for "putting that much money in a bike" or riding further than most people want to drive a car

Well, you're kinda weird.
You put too much money into bikes.
You gotta thing with hats.


So let's ride.
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Old 09-03-19, 05:10 PM
  #80  
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I wasn't speaking to the post-count requirements.


Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
If you are going to thinly veil your criticism of my opinions in the same thread, perhaps you can have the decency to mention me by name.
I remember a time when you were friendly and helpful to strangers. I miss that time.


Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
Toxicity my ass. We're asking newbies to (1) be a little patient and (2) contribute a little of their own information. Help them to help themselves. You're familiar with this concept, yes?

Now we're bitter and full of toxicity if we expect newbies to follow the rules and make an attempt at contributing. Sheesh. Pooey-stinko, this is getting stupid

DD
This is a good example of what I mentioned.
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Old 09-03-19, 05:14 PM
  #81  
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I'm new here, and love to post pics. I think it's a part of sharing/storytelling. I respect the ten post rule, and could ramble on about the perils of opening links from low post count members, but I'm not. I could also ask why 10 post, instead of 5, or 30? -but I'm not. I also respect the work of the volunteers here. So thanks.

Instead, I will power through this. I have opened a bottle of red wine, and will post until my wife gets home. This should get me through at least half of my post, unless she gets here early. Which is unlikely.
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Old 09-03-19, 05:19 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by cinco View Post
I remember a time when you were friendly and helpful to strangers. I miss that time.
I don't remember that time, I've always been a grumpy old sod

Originally Posted by cinco View Post
This is a good example of what I mentioned.
No, it is a dose of reality. DD is advocating for the same expectation from any bicycle co-op: Nobody gets anything unless they contribute a bit themselves.

We've even had two new members come into this thread to show their support for this system - apparently, they must believe in C&V enough to share their perspectives.

Face it, the deck is not stacked in your favor.

-Kurt

P.S.: A side note in this discussion: It is worth mentioning that two biggest bike repair groups on Facebook have "Join Group" requirements that keep you from seeing anything before you become a member. One has a rules list a mile long that greets you on signup. Those groups have 6K and 10K members, respectively. These barriers have obviously not been a deterrent to people actively signing up.
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Old 09-03-19, 05:51 PM
  #83  
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I'm a newbie and need help. I'd be happy to accumulate 10 posts so I can post a photo--but I don't even know what counts as a post. Does this? Is there a link as to what qualifies as a post? Is there a link about any other newbie restrictions?

Thank you.
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Old 09-03-19, 06:01 PM
  #84  
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So far, this thread has been anything but toxic or bitter. It's actually been productive in a way.

Randy wants to make it more welcoming for new members. That's nice.

The ten post rule isn't gonna change - for good reason. (see cb400Bill's post)

Some newer people posted experiences, opinions, and hints about things that may not be readily understood. Valuable info.

The suggestion of a "sticky" thread for general guidelines for new members may be an excellent product of the overall positive discussion.

Randy may end up accomplishing something good out of his initial questioning of the rules.

Moral of the story - question the rules. You may not like the answer you get, but you just might start something good that you didn't initially expect.
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Old 09-03-19, 06:20 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Chicago2 View Post
I'm a newbie and need help. I'd be happy to accumulate 10 posts so I can post a photo--but I don't even know what counts as a post. Does this? Is there a link as to what qualifies as a post? Is there a link about any other newbie restrictions?

Thank you.

Your post counts towards your 10. You can only post 5 posts in a 24 hour period until you hit 10 posts. Then have at it.
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Old 09-03-19, 06:41 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by BFisher View Post
The suggestion of a "sticky" thread for general guidelines for new members may be an excellent product of the overall positive discussion.
Agreed. Maybe something like a master welcome post with a combination of forum info and bike info? I bet Randy would be great at drafting up a quick first-steps guide to ID'ing a bike and what to look for.

-Kurt

P.S.: While we're at it...how about an ISO sub-forum? The threaded version tends to be a bit difficult to page through, and it's difficult to tell if anyone has found (or is still looking) for a part.
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Old 09-03-19, 07:09 PM
  #87  
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I mentioned this discussion to my husband (a web developer). He was saying that the software might have the 10-post rule simply to slow spammers from posting and making hash of the board. It's a safety feature.

Can it be turned off? Most likely. But why make more work for the mods/admins? As the other newbies and I have commented, the rule is not stopping anyone who really wants to be here.
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Old 09-03-19, 09:40 PM
  #88  
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I support new members.
I often post in 'Intros Forum'
It's a big cycling universe.
BF serves the participants Widely and Well.
That's me and you.
Not spammers.

I support keeping it all bicycle.
And as independent and Spam proof as possible.
Moderators helping with the recurring problem of anon interwebs civility.
And lots more.
Not easy.
Congrats to BF.



If I had a 'reform' suggestion....
I stopped reading/posting in P&R.
And even that didn't explode too often, IMHO.
How is it Bicycle?
As a token of internet civility + staying true to the core...
consider only biking (interpreted broadly) forums.
JMHO.
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Old 09-03-19, 10:15 PM
  #89  
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Fewer than 10 posts.

Posted in C&V rather than in Sales.

...

Drive side photos!

Originally Posted by sherwin View Post
Selling two Windsor AM5 size 27 International Bikes. Some improvements added after buying them new years back. Changed to a 6 gear Ultra 6 set (14-16-19-23-27-32). Replaced tires with Kevlar versions. Added cushioned seat covers. Added front wheel locking clips. Asking $300 for each bike. Will sell both together for $550. Grey bike has a rear view mirror and hand pump. Pannier racks shown in pictures are an extra $25 each, but not part of bike price.
Did I mention, fewer than 10 posts?

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Old 09-03-19, 10:47 PM
  #90  
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Hal

Originally Posted by machinist42 View Post
Fewer than 10 posts.

Posted in C&V rather than in Sales.

...

Drive side photos!



Did I mention, fewer than 10 posts?

My point is this:

THERE IS NO 10 POST RULE!

As long as there are workarounds, (such as what I did in my first post (which had pics), over a thousand posts ago, upload directly from my computer, or whatever that guy did), every time a BF member tells a new visitor they need ten posts to post a photo, they are lying to them. And if you want to dishearten, discourage and drive off prospective new BF members, there is no better way than by lying to them. I cringe every single time some BF member tells someone they need ten posts.

Be honest.

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Old 09-03-19, 11:25 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Chicago2 View Post
I'm a newbie and need help. I'd be happy to accumulate 10 posts so I can post a photo--but I don't even know what counts as a post. Does this? Is there a link as to what qualifies as a post? Is there a link about any other newbie restrictions?

Thank you.
Heya! What's your name? What kind of bike do you have? Introduce yourself in here: https://www.bikeforums.net/introductions/

It's not hard to rack up 10 posts, just gab for a while and you'll be there before you know it.
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There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
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Old 09-03-19, 11:33 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
If you are going to thinly veil your criticism of my opinions in the same thread, perhaps you can have the decency to mention me by name.
-Kurt
Very well said my friend, and applies to many other threads where they call you out then tell you they're not going to discuss it any further.

There are many polarizing questions, opinions and scenarios here that we can have "fun" with until they decide to decide for everyone.

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Old 09-03-19, 11:53 PM
  #93  
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My viewpoint is this:

The only decent forums left alive in the world are strict, structured and well moderated.

Check out my 2nd and 3rd most highly used forums:

Zilvia.net and cb7tuner.com

Forums without strict structure and moderation become cesspools of incorrect knowledge, advertisers, bots, people who pretend to be learning but make money off of expert advice, etc.

Iím a fully certified Honda master technician, and I still donít have enough posts to get into the main forums of my car. Despite having beyond ample knowledge to assist many people. But itís nbd for me, Iím not a knowledge seeker in that dept. and Iím happy to help the new people in the newb forum.

Also, hyperlinking, gallery etc... pics are available to people somehow some way. ( Even a disguised link ) The issue is not this forum, itís the internet being itself a place for massive amounts of selfishness and entitlement.
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Old 09-04-19, 12:33 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by machinist42 View Post
My point is this:

THERE IS NO 10 POST RULE!

As long as there are workarounds, (such as what I did in my first post (which had pics), over a thousand posts ago, upload directly from my computer, or whatever that guy did), every time a BF member tells a new visitor they need ten posts to post a photo, they are lying to them. And if you want to dishearten, discourage and drive off prospective new BF members, there is no better way than by lying to them. I cringe every single time some BF member tells someone they need ten posts.

Be honest.
Pretty sure if you purchase a membership (so's you can sell here, like he is) you get to post photos. They may not be good ones, but they can be posted. A workaround, for sure, but hey, they're contributing from the get-go. Could the site survive/do well without paid memberships?

AFAIK, 10 posts was the requirement. I've never stated it in a post without the honest belief it was a real thing. Are you sure it's not?

DD
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Old 09-04-19, 12:52 AM
  #95  
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As a recent newbie, I think that the ten post requirement is excellent and should not be changed for reasons mentioned concerning SPAM.
As mentioned, GOOGLE searching on the desired topic yields at least several previous Bikeforums threads on the subject as well as threads and links from other forums and sources. My belief is that if you have anything useful that you can mention that might help someone in a current post, or that might help someone searching for that information in the future (for example: someone GOOGLING, searching old Threads/posts on a specific topic).
My belief is that if you have a suggestion, question, design idea, MacGyver tip, opinion, or/and an interesting story that isn't unrelated, then share it.
Don't get bent out of shape by comments from others who may disagree with your opinion. Folks are not trying to be mean, it is mostly personalities and the colorful ways that they phrase their comments. You have to expect that folks will have differing opinions and that goes for the equipment that they deem worthy of riding.
Life would be much more dull if everybody had the same dislikes and opinions.
I've been someone that has viewed bikeforums for years. Some friends have been here for a long time. They actually encouraged me to register and post because as they say, you know a lot about the bikes folks have totally forgotten about. That is not true, as I know a little bit, and everything else that is related to what I do know about old bicycles is just stuff that everybody who was around back then, knew, but mostly forgot about because things were mechanically simple.
I think that anybody should try to contribute and help someone with a solution or perhaps a useful idea. Often, we do let our own opinions on what is a decent bicycle cloud our judgement when providing responses to certain threads. Certain bicycle riders need only something that meets basic needs. It is the same thing for someone that is just learning tennis, or someone that plays golf but that cannot yet break 85 while playing the ball down and putting out all putts. It doesn't matter in that case if they are using IRONS from the sixties, or seventies, pro-line models or kmart clubs, because they are hacks with poor swing fundamentals and thus no new irons will help them. Someone that is simply going to ride at a leisurely pace, and wants to ride seated upright, can do fine on almost anything including a $125 Wal-Mart Special or something for $45 from the flea market or the church's yard sale. We should provide useful information that helps the poster sort out his/her bicycle problem, even if it is the YUGO / CORVAIR / VEGA of the bicycle world. I do understand that many folks here are employed by or are proprietors of local bike shops, and they have a vested interest in selling the bicycle brands that they carry, and discouraging folks from buying anything new from Tar-Jay, Wallyworld, Amazon, or The Bay. A bicycle is fairly basic in its simplest form. Simple works fine for certain folks. I do think that folks should be helpful and for more than 95% of the contributors on bikeforums, you do find that they provide helpful information and guidance. You'll never get much better than 98% because you'll always have jerks. Bikeforums is actually really good in my opinion in the contributions of folks who do post here. There are much fewer jerks here than you'd likely find on other forums. I don't know why there are the unhelpful jerks from time to time. Perhaps alcohol consumption and/or perhaps the belief that any discussion of a cheapie, junk, walmart, gas-pipe, boat anchor, pos, that has a market value or new cost that is below $300----somehow..... I think some of these snickering jerks think that somehow having any thread space or discussion that is devoted to some basic, low-end bicycle, somehow lessens their nice bicycle.
My suggestion is look at it this way, bicycling is fun and not everyone needs or wants the latest-greatest road bike, or a high end hybrid or top quality mountain bike. There is a place for those Wallyworld and Tar-Jay specials and it isn't the garbage dumpster. Properly set up and adjusted, even the most inexpensive bicycles can function okay for many. I think that we overlook that some folks just want to get out and ride whatever they have. My opinion is that we should try to always provide helpful information to help anyone that seeks to get their bicycle sorted out so they can ride it. We should try to provide helpful information or helpful links or direct the poster/person with a question to youtube or a particular repair manual or whatever can possibly assist them. Telling folks that they currently have useless junk that they should place in the dumpster or curbside for trash pickup is NOT what we should be doing. Yes, there are times that someone may have something with a cracked or bent frame or something so severely rusted that advice such as this is warranted but in most cases, we all should try to provide helpful information if we can. That is what I think. Overall, I think bikeforums is great. I like the debate and varied opinions that differ from my own.
Maybe it is a product of growing up in a large family. You just don't take it personal when somebody argues with you on some subject and calls you an idiot or worse during the heat of the discussion. I guess what I am trying to say is that we all probably should remember that perhaps some folks are not as thick-skinned and may not realize that there is nothing personal in such an exaggerated Joe Friday / Howard Cosell type of blunt/curt response.
Heck, I don't know if you can get it much better than it is because you always have personalities and crowd behavior which sometimes carries it too far. I do think that Newbies have only minimal requirements that are easy to meet. There is no reason to change the 10 post requirement.
Just try to be more civil and helpful with responses no matter with a newbie or an ancient fossil who may start, or contibute to any bike forums thread.
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Old 09-04-19, 01:32 AM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
Pretty sure if you purchase a membership (so's you can sell here, like he is) you get to post photos. They may not be good ones, but they can be posted. A workaround, for sure, but hey, they're contributing from the get-go. Could the site survive/do well without paid memberships?

AFAIK, 10 posts was the requirement. I've never stated it in a post without the honest belief it was a real thing. Are you sure it's not?

DD
Pretty darn certain the "posting from your own computer's files" workaround still works. I suggested it to someone a month or two ago and their next post had photos. If I have time before Dorian arrives I'll prove it. If not, then when the power and interwebs come back, whenever that might be.

Did he purchase the membership before or after he incorrectly posted to C&V rather than Sales?

In any event, purchasing a premium membership is a proven workaround to the "10 Post Rule", isn't it?

In no way do I mean to imply BFers intentionally mislead.

(My criticism of his photographs was meant to be "Wackily" humourous, but instead reads cruel and certainly was unnecessary. I will delete. Please accept my apologies.)

Last edited by machinist42; 09-04-19 at 01:36 AM.
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Old 09-04-19, 01:58 AM
  #97  
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Just in case a newbie wanted to post a pic of Jean Arthur on a bike, here it is.



btw, I think we can all agree that Newbie Intolerant would be an awful name for just about anyone ... though I don't want to single out anyone if in fact that is your name.
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Old 09-04-19, 02:49 AM
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Wait, I'm playing politics on a bike forum. Duh!

Out.

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Old 09-04-19, 03:42 AM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by Chicago2 View Post
I'm a newbie and need help. I'd be happy to accumulate 10 posts so I can post a photo--but I don't even know what counts as a post. Does this? Is there a link as to what qualifies as a post? Is there a link about any other newbie restrictions?

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I like what you did there. Welcome!
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Old 09-04-19, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by cinco View Post
I wasn't speaking to the post-count requirements.

I remember a time when you were friendly and helpful to strangers. I miss that time.

This is a good example of what I mentioned.
I don't follow that logic at all.
I seriously don't.
I recommend a big dose of us.
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