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Campag NR rear hub near dead

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Campag NR rear hub near dead

Old 09-19-19, 06:47 PM
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TiHabanero
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Campag NR rear hub near dead

Been riding the same hubs since 1986, put at least 30 thousand miles on them. Got them new from Oschner Imports when I worked full time at a shop. Two years ago my daughter and I rode a crushed limestone bike trail for about 20 miles and a ton of dust was kicking up. Foolishly I did not repack the hubs when we got home, but kept on riding them for the rest of the season and part of this season. Went to repack today and found the balls very dull and the cones, although not pitted, are dull as well. Cups in the hub seem to be OK.

Put new grade 25 balls in and the hub no longer has that buttery smooth Campy feel to it. Now it feels like a mid grade Shimano hub. Suppose nothing lasts forever when not cared for. Shame on me for being so blind!
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Old 09-19-19, 07:21 PM
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You could try the old trick with Tipo hubs. Replace the grease with polishing paste and ride a couple hundred miles. Might smooth them out. (Tipo hubs didn't get the final NR super smooth machining but the races were otherwise the same. After the final on-the-road polishing, there was very little difference in feel. The cost of this experiment will be very little and you have nothing to lose.

Ben
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Old 09-19-19, 07:26 PM
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Habanero,
I just finished a hub that came in damaged and sent it out to Oregon. Your buttery smooth feel can be restored by a bit of work. It isn't gonna be cheap but it gets you back to square one. You will need to get a few rubber infused bits for your Dremel tool. And some 400, 600, and 800 water paper grit sandpaper. You will need a drill and a drill press, and a special tool I use that is basically a 1/4" piece of SS stock with a slot cut into it. The rubber infused bits will polish out all of the imperfections in the outer races of the hub. It will be back to mirror finish in a few minutes (like thirty). The inner races need more attention. You will need to use the drill press with the SS stock with the slot cut into it to make a a polishing tool for the races. The roughest grit first and down to the finest. Put the axle in your drill and set each inner race to the lowest point on the axle at a time, and lock it down with the jam nut. Then proceed to polish by using the low speed of your drill press coupled with the speed of your drill to polish the race to a mirror finish. Use all three papers to get the best results, and then do the other race. New bearings and new grease will have you back in bizniz! Smiles, MH
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Old 09-19-19, 07:46 PM
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It doesn't sound like it's nearly dead. It still has many years ahead.
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Old 09-19-19, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
You could try the old trick with Tipo hubs. Replace the grease with polishing paste and ride a couple hundred miles. Might smooth them out. (Tipo hubs didn't get the final NR super smooth machining but the races were otherwise the same. After the final on-the-road polishing, there was very little difference in feel. The cost of this experiment will be very little and you have nothing to lose.

Ben
The hub races between tipo and record were not the same. The tipo received nice stamping but just that- the records received heat treatment and grinding.

same with the cones.

i would go with grade 10 ball bearings- better than grade 25- one still might use simichrome in the hubs with the bearings now... it does not take long.

also might consider new cones- those do show up on that famous auction site- also sometimes look for axle sets and it a lone front or rear hub...

or or at the final build go ceramic ball bearings ...
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Old 09-19-19, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad Honk View Post
Habanero,
I just finished a hub that came in damaged and sent it out to Oregon. Your buttery smooth feel can be restored by a bit of work. It isn't gonna be cheap but it gets you back to square one. You will need to get a few rubber infused bits for your Dremel tool. And some 400, 600, and 800 water paper grit sandpaper. You will need a drill and a drill press, and a special tool I use that is basically a 1/4" piece of SS stock with a slot cut into it. The rubber infused bits will polish out all of the imperfections in the outer races of the hub. It will be back to mirror finish in a few minutes (like thirty). The inner races need more attention. You will need to use the drill press with the SS stock with the slot cut into it to make a a polishing tool for the races. The roughest grit first and down to the finest. Put the axle in your drill and set each inner race to the lowest point on the axle at a time, and lock it down with the jam nut. Then proceed to polish by using the low speed of your drill press coupled with the speed of your drill to polish the race to a mirror finish. Use all three papers to get the best results, and then do the other race. New bearings and new grease will have you back in bizniz! Smiles, MH
This is an interesting way to do it, Mad Honk.

I had to read it twice but I think you mean to put the cone onto the lowermost part of the axle, with the axle set in the chuck of the drill press and lock it in place with the locknut., then use the 1/4" piece of stainless with the slot in it to carry some 400 / 600 / 800 grit (presumably just a difference in local naming of things) wet-and-dry paper, mounted in the drill and run the drill at 90 degrees to the axle so that the cone is being spun with the axle at a relatively low speed in the drill press, whilst the 1/4" bar which carries the wet and dry, being approx the same diameter as the balls, is spun by the drill at relatively high revs so buffing the bearing surface.

I'd guess you need a piece of 3/16" bar with a slot for the front cones, since they are radiused for a 3/16" ball?

Neat!

I used to use the method that 79pmooney recommends years ago when working for the teams (contrary to popular myth, very few teams had (or have) bottomless pockets so you sometimes had to improvise a bit) but would spin the axles with an electric drill for speed. More recently, I've set the cone on the axle in the lathe and used a 1000 grade water stone ground to a 1/4" radius for the rear and 3/16" for the front, held in the tool post, to do this job. Tricky because the water stone is quite brittle so you have to go in with water and very, very easy at just the right angle. Grinding the radius on the water stone is also a real PITA ...

Depending on which hubs you have, I probably have spare cones for them in the secret stash ...

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Old 09-19-19, 08:45 PM
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Boulder bicycle has the cones. 14.50/pr. Sometimes they have the cups.

Found More! Campagnolo Vintage Rear Cone Pair NOS - fits Campy Nuovo Record and Victory and others

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Old 09-19-19, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
It doesn't sound like it's nearly dead. It still has many years ahead.

​​​​
But he says they are not as smooth. Like back when he was just a youth.
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Old 09-19-19, 09:48 PM
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If 20 miles of limestone did your hub in, it was on the way out anyway.
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Old 09-19-19, 10:20 PM
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If the cones and the cups aren't pitted, they have plenty of miles yet. In your situation, I'd probably polish up the cones with polishing compound and a drill, and leave it at that. No sandpaper.

I've never tried the simichrome instead of grease method, but I guess that might work. Not sure I'd ride 200 miles with simichrome in my hubs. I'd try 50 and then check.
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Old 09-19-19, 10:43 PM
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7/32" balls in front Nuovo Record hubs, right? (3/16" in Tipo.)
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Old 09-19-19, 10:50 PM
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If everything in the hubs is just a bit dull, why bother with the Dremels and polishing compound and everything? Wouldn't just continuing to run the hubs with fresh balls and grease polish them up where they need it?
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Old 09-19-19, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad Honk View Post
Habanero,
... And some 400, 600, and 800 water paper grit sandpaper. You will need a drill and a drill press, and a special tool I use that is basically a 1/4" piece of SS stock with a slot cut into it. .. You will need to use the drill press with the SS stock with the slot cut into it to make a a polishing tool for the races. The roughest grit first and down to the finest. Put the axle in your drill and set each inner race to the lowest point on the axle at a time, and lock it down with the jam nut. Then proceed to polish by using the low speed of your drill press coupled with the speed of your drill to polish the race to a mirror finish. Use all three papers to get the best results, and then do the other race. New bearings and new grease will have you back in bizniz! Smiles, MH
Have you ever used the really fine aluminum oxide films sold for honing plane and chisel blades? 3Mâ„¢ Aluminum Oxide Films for Sharpening - Lee Valley Tools The finest I use (for woodworking tools) is the yellow stuff, 1 micron grit about equiv. to an 8000x stone. You work up through the range, just as you suggest with the water paper. It's great for people who do only occasional projects and don't want to invest in diamond stones. (Over the long haul, the Al2O3 gets expensive if you do a lot of sharpening.)
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Old 09-20-19, 10:32 AM
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In the middle of the night I remembered I had a set of spare hubs stashed away. Looked at them this morning and found that it is two sets of hubs!! Yea! Changed out the cones and the hubs are certainly smoother, however I will try rehabbing them before settling for second best. Thanks for the tips and process descriptions.
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Old 09-20-19, 05:58 PM
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I regularly polish my cones.

I have a small drill press that I screw the cones onto a scrap axle, then polish with successive grades of sandpaper on high speed from 220 grit up to 600 grit. I don't have 1000 or greater, but it is available. I tend to use oil with the 600 and final polishing.

I get a pretty good mirror finish, and tiny circumferential scratches don't make any difference.
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Old 09-20-19, 07:34 PM
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About once a year, give or take, I get out the equipment to polish my cones, my shoes and my helmet.
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Old 09-21-19, 01:21 AM
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I'd like to offer testimony as to the truth of what @Mad Honk is saying. The man is a straight up wonder worker. I just got the hub he mentioned above. I saw a picture of it in the "as found" state, and I was a bit skeptical as to whether or not it would clean up to be usable even on a basic rider. Then he did this:



It looks so good, I felt the need to polish the rear hub I'm going to pair it with before even putting them next to each other in the toolbox to await spokes.

Of course, the question in this thread is "How does it spin?" It feels great! Perfectly smooth without feeling loose.I am very impressed!
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Old 09-21-19, 06:48 PM
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Andy,
Thanks for the words of support. It was a bit bad when it came in, but I did nothing to the outer shell other than a good cleaning with no polishing. And gave it the process described above.
Now about that rear hub... How about getting one of those leather buckle on reflector things we put on the hubs to keep them clean way back in the fifties and sixties? Har Har!!
Smiles, MH
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Old 09-21-19, 06:59 PM
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gfk_velo,
I just got back from a trip to New Harmony, IN ; a Utopian Society started in the 1830's, and a great place to get away from the real world. I will try to post pics of the process tomorrow when I get going. It isn't hard, but you have to have the tools available to do this work. I will find a hub or BB that needs some help and show the before and afters. But that is a a lot of pics! Hope it will be of help, smiles, MH
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Old 09-22-19, 03:15 AM
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If the races are not pitted, clean everything up as well as you can and then polish the races with crumpled up aluminum foil. Argue if you wish, but this has helped me put, otherwise questionable hubs, back into reasonable working order. It costs nothing to implement. I might also suggest replacing the ball bearings. Then assemble and see how it feels. You might be surprised and get many years more out of the hub...
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Old 09-22-19, 06:13 PM
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OK gfk_velo,
Here is the process: Clean the hub, and then polish the races. pics are like this: hub before any work, hub at cleaning, hub at the polishing stage, inner races being polished and the way to do it. One side first then the other, and then polishing to outer races, before and after. HTH, MH
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Old 09-22-19, 06:20 PM
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Campy NR cones are surface hardened, and you can't practically regrind the surface without destroying the hard surface layer. That's what I was always told at least. So, bad idea. n reality it depends on the method Campagnolo used to harden the cones. For normal mid level cones, go to town. In older times it was however easier just to buy a new cone.
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Old 09-22-19, 06:32 PM
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I may be whistling in the graveyard here, But how do you think those cones got polished in the first place? How do you harden a surface after the polishing process to get the hardness different than the base metal? I spent more than a few years in the steel industry and have yet to see any post production hardening of the surfaces. I get that hard anodizing of aluminum will increase it's tensile strength, but have no knowledge of anything like that for steel. What the steel is, is what it is. High carbon, chrome, or vanadium will help it out but won't change the structure of the base material. Smiles, MH
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Old 09-22-19, 07:34 PM
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Campy Record vs Nouvo Tipo Cups

Campy Nuovo Tipo # 1271 rear hub cups were stamped, minimally machined, hardened then the ODs, and ball bearing races were ground.

This # 1271 cup failed when it cracked from being overtightened and rode until the axle broke.




Notice the amount of wear in the cup.


Record # 738 rear hub cups were stamped or may have been machined from bar stock then hardened. The rear is flat. The ODs and rear faces were precision ground and the bearing races ground with a finer grit grinding wheel to provide a smoother finish.

I received the # 1271 cup below as a replacement. It looks identical to the # 738 but not as well ground. Triomphe and Victory hubs used the # 1271 rear cups too so maybe Campy changed the design???




@randyjawa When aluminum is exposed to the atmosphere it instantly starts forming (corroding) an aluminum oxide surface layer. That layer helps prevent further corrosion. Since aluminum oxide is hard and is used in abrasives, it's that surface layer on the foil that's doing the polishing. There are much faster and more effective forms of aluminum oxide in the form of powders, pastes, coated abrasives (sand paper).

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Old 09-23-19, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Mad Honk View Post








OK gfk_velo,
Here is the process: Clean the hub, and then polish the races. pics are like this: hub before any work, hub at cleaning, hub at the polishing stage, inner races being polished and the way to do it. One side first then the other, and then polishing to outer races, before and after. HTH, MH
Thanks MadHonk - really appreciate your time to shoot the images and post.
Definitely simpler than my method.
Tooling isn't a problem this end :-D
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