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Nishiki vintage help

Old 09-30-19, 08:44 PM
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Londonsworld
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Nishiki vintage help

About to complete this machine and discovered the DA 7401 DT shifters don't fit. Seems the fixing bolts are too big ;-( . Any help is appreciated ......




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Old 09-30-19, 09:12 PM
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very cool bike
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Old 09-30-19, 10:26 PM
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What is the internal route on the downtube for since shifting is downtube?
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Old 09-30-19, 10:37 PM
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I believe that mount would have originally taken Arabesque 600 or 105 Golden Arrow. Those shifters used smaller posts on the D-rings.

You're essentially limited to whatever Shimano shifter will adapt onto that specific boss and adapter (which shouldn't be that limiting) and has separate D-ring fixing bolts so you can run the earlier type to cinch everything down with (much more limiting).

-Kurt
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Old 10-01-19, 03:34 AM
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Thats a good question...I'll keep researching.
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Old 10-01-19, 03:37 AM
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Thank you cudak888.
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Old 10-01-19, 06:50 AM
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The subject bicycle is a 1985 Nishiki Tri-A. It came out just as the original aero trend was dying off and the popularity in triathlons was booming. The internal gear cable routing was an aero feature meant to appeal to triathletes. West Coast Cycle also sponsored Susan Notorangelo on her successful 1985 RAAM Race Across AMerica) bid and the Tri-A was her mount, so that may also have had an influence.

The curious thing is that year's literature, which used illustrations as opposed to photographs, mention the internal gear and brake routing but does not show the internal gear cable ports, let alone the lever bosses. The layout had challenged borders, which caused the illustrator to place the Nishiki logo so high on the down tube, as to require the omission of the bosses and ports.

These bicycles were originally equipped with Shimano New 600EX but it was the year before that group was updated with SIS. When Shimano went to SIS they envisioned lots of riders converting their Campagnolo equipped bicycles and they adopted the Campagnolo standard M5 thumbscrew. Prior to this, Shimano's standard shift lever thumbscrew was M4.5, however groups like Dura-Ace and New 600EX could be purchased with either bolt, to match your bosses. The SIS switch to the Campagnolo standard is why the early versions of the SIS thumbscrews say M5 on them. The 1985 Tri-A is obviously outfitted with Shimano bosses requiring the M4.5 thumbscrew.
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Old 10-02-19, 12:51 AM
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Thank you! I should've gone Suntour lol
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Old 10-02-19, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Londonsworld View Post
Thank you! I should've gone Suntour lol
Still wouldn't fit

-Kurt
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Old 10-03-19, 05:45 AM
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Time to hang this frame back on the wall to shoot rubber bands at. I'll grab a dusty frame with correct bosses and make the switch. smh Thank you for the PM's
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Old 10-03-19, 07:09 AM
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These should be the two parts you need to convert your levers to fit the frame:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-Dur...gAAOSwxDxcaYcb

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-Dur...gAAOSwHOtcaYWw
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Old 10-03-19, 09:33 AM
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Pretty sure I have some 4.5mm thumbscrews on the barn. PM me.

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Old 10-03-19, 01:23 PM
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Much appreciated!!!!!!
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Old 10-03-19, 01:25 PM
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PM sent! Gracias!
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Old 10-03-19, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
These should be the two parts you need to convert your levers to fit the frame:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-Dur...gAAOSwxDxcaYcb

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-Dur...gAAOSwHOtcaYWw
Didn't realize such a thing existed in all the time I've been bumming around here. Thanks for posting these, T-Mar.

-Kurt
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Old 10-04-19, 07:18 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Didn't realize such a thing existed in all the time I've been bumming around here. Thanks for posting these, T-Mar.

-Kurt
While Shimano standardized on the M5 Campagnolo style boss for SIS, they did catalogue New Dura-Ace and New 600EX SIS lever sets for the M4.5 Shimano boss for a short time. I assume Shimano were marketing these primarily for what they hoped would be a large retro-fit market. While I was aware of them, I had never seen an actual set until I went looking for the parts for the OP. So they do seem to be quite rare and not many members would be familiar with them.

I've always been amused how Shimano would use "Italian" when referring to the M5 lever sets but the M5 indicator in the part number was a "C", which was obviously a nod to Campagnolo. See attached scans.

As I discussed with the OP in PMs, you can't use an M4.5 mounting screw from a friction lever set. The SIS M4.5 screws are much longer due to the extra width of the SIS mechanism. And, of course, the critical part is the dedicated boss cover/bezel designed to fit over the Shimano boss and having the required recesses to mate with the prongs of the SIS mechanism.

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Old 10-04-19, 01:18 PM
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T-Mar is the Nishiki Boss!!
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Old 10-24-19, 03:19 PM
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Shifting update

Thank you folks for assisting with technical expertise for this machine...


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Old 01-20-20, 07:41 PM
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Londonsworld - thanks for posting your update here! I also have an 85 Tri-A ("Ferrari red") which came with pre-SIS 600 rear derailleur. It was not compatible with Shimano indexed shifting, but a tri color SIS 600 RD did work. Just FYI in case you try to use index mode on yours.

I have a question for you when you get a chance. The internal cabling in my Tri-A for both derailleurs enters the downtube just below the shifter bosses, and then passes through the bottom bracket shell. My Tri-A is not cabled as it was originally, evidenced by the black color of the housing (original housing on mine would have been yellow). So I am trying to find out how the cable was originally configured through the BB shell -- with or without housing through the shell? My question is: does your rear derailleur housing stop right where it enters the rear of the chainstay tube, or does the housing continue all the way up to the the downtube exit point just below the right shifter?

Thanks for any info!

Originally Posted by Londonsworld View Post
Thank you folks for assisting with technical expertise for this machine...


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Old 01-23-20, 02:47 PM
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[QUOTE=HooBikes;21292848]...My Tri-A is not cabled as it was originally, evidenced by the black color of the housing (original housing on mine would have been yellow). So I am trying to find out how the cable was originally configured through the BB shell -- with or without housing through the shell? My question is: does your rear derailleur housing stop right where it enters the rear of the chainstay tube, or does the housing continue all the way up to the the downtube exit point just below the right shifter?.../QUOTE]

See post #18 of this thread, It's official - 1986 Nishiki Tri-A is in the stable!
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Old 01-23-20, 03:00 PM
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[QUOTE=T-Mar;21297053]
Originally Posted by HooBikes View Post
...My Tri-A is not cabled as it was originally, evidenced by the black color of the housing (original housing on mine would have been yellow). So I am trying to find out how the cable was originally configured through the BB shell -- with or without housing through the shell? My question is: does your rear derailleur housing stop right where it enters the rear of the chainstay tube, or does the housing continue all the way up to the the downtube exit point just below the right shifter?.../QUOTE]

See post #18 of this thread, It's official - 1986 Nishiki Tri-A is in the stable!
​​​T-Mar Thanks, but post #18 of that thread is actually my post My configuration described there, and as I mentioned here, is not necessarily how it was originally cabled (although it probably was), so I'm interested to hear from another 1985 Tri-A owner like Londonsworld whether their original RD housing runs the length of the frame, or whether it stops just as it enters the frame? Any further info appreciated to confirm this!
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Old 01-23-20, 04:39 PM
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[QUOTE=HooBikes;21297063]
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post

​​​T-Mar Thanks, but post #18 of that thread is actually my post My configuration described there, and as I mentioned here, is not necessarily how it was originally cabled (although it probably was), so I'm interested to hear from another 1985 Tri-A owner like Londonsworld whether their original RD housing runs the length of the frame, or whether it stops just as it enters the frame? Any further info appreciated to confirm this!
Sorry, I didn't realize that was you. I just remembered that post stating that the poster had "bought a second bike on ebay, complete and original, just so I could learn how it's cabled through the inside of the BB".

Regardless, I have to see a 1985 Tri-A with any visible step-down ferrule at the cable port on the chain stay and that includes those with the OEM yellow cable housing. If you can't see or feel a step inside the chain stay port that acts as a stop and the cable housing slides all the way through the port, then that is a pretty good indicator of a full length cable housing run inside the frame, particularly if there is a step/stop at the down port that prevents the housing from sliding through that port.
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Old 01-23-20, 06:46 PM
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[QUOTE=T-Mar;21297176]
Originally Posted by HooBikes View Post

Sorry, I didn't realize that was you. I just remembered that post stating that the poster had "bought a second bike on ebay, complete and original, just so I could learn how it's cabled through the inside of the BB".

Regardless, I have to see a 1985 Tri-A with any visible step-down ferrule at the cable port on the chain stay and that includes those with the OEM yellow cable housing. If you can't see or feel a step inside the chain stay port that acts as a stop and the cable housing slides all the way through the port, then that is a pretty good indicator of a full length cable housing run inside the frame, particularly if there is a step/stop at the down port that prevents the housing from sliding through that port.
Thank you, and you are most correct -- I did think back then that it was a complete and original Tri-A, but in a later post I updated to disclaim that I had discovered it wasn't the original cable. Your point is a good one, thank you. The diameter of the chain stay port stops 4.5mm housing, but 4mm housing slides through the port. However, I'd think that if it was intended to stop the housing there, it would also stop a 4mm housing, because the .25mm radius difference is barely enough to stop the plastic casing on the housing and therefore to stop the cable with precision. So I'm inclined to think that the original housing was 4mm and went all the way through the frame port to port, through the BB. The whole reason for my question this week is to decide whether upgrading from the original 5 speed friction shifting to 10speed index shifting will require more precision than 3' of housing compression will permit. I can simulate that without mounting the parts. And STI will also involve deciding how to run housing from the downtube cable port to the shifter. I could use the apparently built-in stop inside the downtube, then inner wire two inches up to a cable stop on the downtube shifter boss, then resume housing to the shifter lever. Or I could drill out the downtube cable port to allow 4mm housing all the way from derailleur to shifter. Thanks again. I'll report back if/when I get it working! One of many projects.
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