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Repainted Mystery - Need help ID'ing

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Repainted Mystery - Need help ID'ing

Old 10-16-19, 08:40 PM
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Hailstorm_7
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Repainted Mystery - Need help ID'ing

We had another mystery bike left at our local co-op. Obvious repaint, and all identifying features are gone. No serial number visible, unfortunately. What I could spot, however, were the Campagnolo headset and drop-outs, the Shimano 600 SLX drive chain, snappy lugs, etc. I don't know if the parts can be entirely relied upon to help ID the bike, because it is such a strange mix. I'm hoping you fine folks have some clues as to what this may be. I'm happy to take other pictures as needed to help hone the search. Thanks as always for your help.









I'm digging this Huret cable guide.


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Old 10-16-19, 08:53 PM
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Getting a Schwinn Paramount vibe...
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Old 10-16-19, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by thinktubes View Post
Getting a Schwinn Paramount vibe...
Maybe, no S/N on the NDS DO.
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Old 10-16-19, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Maybe, no S/N on the NDS DO.
Yeah, I noticed that too. Waiting for the real experts to show up.
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Old 10-16-19, 09:06 PM
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Headset locknut is from an Alatet

no-slide bit suggestive of UK

domed taper tube ends also suggest UK

chainstays appear rapier pattern which pretty much locks it to the isles

Schwinn never employed this shell nor this model of Vagner crown

all this text and imagery but no mention made of threading


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Last edited by juvela; 10-16-19 at 09:11 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 10-17-19, 08:51 AM
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Yep, we need threading and maybe seatpost size but I agree we could be looking at something from GB and without a serial number this could be a mystery that won't be easily solved! The paint is a nod to Motobecane Grand Record (not one) and it may turn out the fork crown may be a strong clue, tho not that unique it still is distinctive (IF it's OEM).

Last edited by unworthy1; 10-17-19 at 08:55 AM.
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Old 10-17-19, 11:04 AM
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This shell, with its slightly beveled sockets, was employed on some Tube Investments products of the later 1960's and early 1970's. One of its quirks is that while a nominal 68mm it ofttimes comes through on completed bicycles as underwith, in the vicinity of 66.5mm.

In the image below it appears we once again have it in a narrow form. Note the two or so exposed threads on the adjustable bottom bracket cup.



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Two checks the folks on hand may wish to perform to advance the inquiry would be to measure shell width and examine interior of head tube to see if any headplate fastener holes have been filled in.

How closely has underside of shell been examined for sign of markings? Sometimes they are shallow enough to be filled by paint finish.

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Old 10-17-19, 11:43 AM
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My guess it is 531 tube set, likely British made. Perhaps a Raleigh?
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Old 10-17-19, 06:58 PM
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One of the challenges of identifying British built frames is that there were a lot of local builders throughout the UK. When I was looking for a place to learn I visited many of them. In addition bigger outfits would make frames for various local bicycle stores that marketed their own brand. For example at Ellis Briggs where I learned they had a couple of painters that sprayed frames built by Woodrup for R.E.W. Reynolds. On Wednesday's when Mr and Mrs. Briggs were taking a day off some builder (I can't remember his name but was somehow associated with the business) would come in to use the Campy frame prepping tools. He sometimes sold frames under his own name but usually it was for various local store brands. That way he didn't have to spend time interacting with customers advising on bits and colors but could concentrate on turning out frames. This large number of small builder's frames seldom made it over here but did sometimes by US cyclists that did a tour in the UK.
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Old 10-17-19, 07:32 PM
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Just an observation, but those socks on the fork are super high, and it appears entire frame was chromed, but is an obvious repaint.
@juvela that's all Nervex Professional lugs, yes?

At first I thought Libertas but don't think it's the case because of lugs. Lejeune and a few others used similar lug and crown, but without knowing threading and seat tube ID, who knows?
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Old 10-17-19, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by francophile View Post
Just an observation, but those socks on the fork are super high, and it appears entire frame was chromed, but is an obvious repaint.
@juvela that's all Nervex Professional lugs, yes?

At first I thought Libertas but don't think it's the case because of lugs. Lejeune and a few others used similar lug and crown, but without knowing threading and seat tube ID, who knows?
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Yes to lugs.

The clinker with Libertas is the indigenous British shell.

This something L would not employ.

They might use one from BOCAMA or from NERVEX but not this one.

Sorry, do not know the name of this shell. Another reader is bound to know it.

It was found on Raleigh/Carlton Reynolds tubing frames of the 1960'sa and early 1970's.

It expresses on me 1970 Competition.

Something VERY unlikely to ever encounter on a product from the continent.

Have never seen a TI product with this model of Vagner, a situation which of course means nothing since there were always variations from "specification."

Of course, we do not know that fork is original to frame.

The specific chainstay stop employed might be a clue but it is not shown well enough in the images provided to determine what it is (well, at least not for me auld peepers! ).

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Old 10-17-19, 08:57 PM
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It looks like a Meteor,Made in England. I need a better shot of the forks.
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Old 10-17-19, 09:15 PM
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Here is a Meteor Franco Suisse belonging to a cycle collector friend.

It exhibits both similarities and differences compared with the subject machine.

It is all chrome beneath the paint, built with NERVEX Professional lugset and rapier pattern chainstays.

However, it has wraparound seat stay treatment, a different shell and the crown found on the International.







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Old 10-18-19, 07:41 AM
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The Coop bike looks to be a Carlton or Raleigh / Carlton from the late 60s or early 70s. The Meteor's lugs, overall chrome with the transparent acrylichrome paint along with the Carlton OEM model name decal support a Carlton manufacturing ID. I believe the Meteor branding was a sub-brand or special production by Carlton. However, to confirm the Coop's bike as a Carlton, Raleigh (International?) or a Meteor, check the interior of the headtube. Two vertical badge mount drillings would indicate a Meteor, two horizontal drillings would indicate a Carlton badge branding and a triad of badge holes would identify a Raleigh. Another Carlton related id support is the Vagner PL style fork crown which was very common on higher end Carltons of the period.

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Old 10-18-19, 08:52 AM
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My immediate thought on seeing the photos and before reading the other members' posts, was a Carlton product. Of course, the red and black re-paint gave me a bit of a push in that direction.
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Old 10-18-19, 09:16 AM
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It looks a lot like my 1974 Raleigh International. It uses the same stop for the downtube shifter clamp.
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Old 10-18-19, 09:26 AM
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Thanks so much for your post Jim!

Explanation of the Meteor badge in California here -

The Meteor bicycle Made in England ?


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Old 10-18-19, 09:26 AM
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Fork looks original; anything on the steerer tube?

I know it's just a bolt/nut, but I see the seat post binder bolt says Simplex, if that suggests anything.
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Old 10-18-19, 01:00 PM
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There is scarcely anything original on the machine. The Alatet locknut may be the only original piece.

OEM binder would have been a Gripfast, likely one with a C monogram on the nut.


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Last edited by juvela; 10-18-19 at 03:33 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 10-18-19, 01:05 PM
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Why does no one ever state the BB size/threading and seat post size?

Apologies if I missed it.
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Old 10-18-19, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jiangshi View Post
Why does no one ever state the BB size/threading and seat post size?

Apologies if I missed it.
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+1

And no, you did not miss it.


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Old 10-18-19, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jiangshi View Post
Why does no one ever state the BB size/threading and seat post size?

Apologies if I missed it.
It's been asked; not yet answered.
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Old 10-21-19, 07:08 AM
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And I was getting to those measurements as soon as possible. The seatpost size is 27.2mm. Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance yet to check or confirm the BB size/threading. I would be surprised if it was anything but 68mm but we'll see. Thanks for the thoughts and help so far. I'll also take some pictures of the chainstay cable stop and interior of the steerer tube when I can (likely Tuesday).
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Old 10-21-19, 10:08 AM
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Thanks for getting back to us Hailstorm_7.

It is not the interior of the steerer we are interested in but rather the interior of the head tube.

We wish to know if there is any sign of head emblem fastener holes being filled in and, if present, in what pattern they are.

Thank you again.


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Last edited by juvela; 10-21-19 at 10:12 AM. Reason: addition
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Old 10-21-19, 02:15 PM
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Another possibility here is that there's a serial stamped on the steerer tube. If the OP is taking it off to check for badge-hole drilling, may as well check for serial as well.
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