Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Pawl-less silent Shimano rear hubs.. anybody used them?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Pawl-less silent Shimano rear hubs.. anybody used them?

Old 11-06-19, 04:21 PM
  #26  
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Village, New York City
Posts: 37,840

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1973 Raleigh Twenty, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 451 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5791 Post(s)
Liked 325 Times in 229 Posts
I really don't have a preference as to whether my ratchet is loud or quiet. But when it's loud, I find it to be a useful pedestrian warning, so I guess I have a weak preference for loud.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 11-06-19, 04:29 PM
  #27  
rosefarts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 805
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 320 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 70 Times in 32 Posts
I don't shop for hubs based on volume but I like the loud ones.

I have two nearly silent hubs. The spare wheel on my gravel bike, some 135mm cheap thing a friend gave me after buying it used (for a 130mm bike).

The other is the Dura Ace 7400 hub on the Spectrum I just got. It's almost silent
rosefarts is online now  
Old 11-06-19, 04:30 PM
  #28  
SamSpade1941 
Senior Member
 
SamSpade1941's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 746
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 402 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 26 Posts
Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I really don't have a preference as to whether my ratchet is loud or quiet. But when it's loud, I find it to be a useful pedestrian warning, so I guess I have a weak preference for loud.
yes that’s certainly a benefit when everyone can hear that audible click .. kinda negates the need for a bell save for the fact it’s very common for people to not pay attention to anything as they keep their heads planted in the smartphone screen
SamSpade1941 is offline  
Old 11-06-19, 05:23 PM
  #29  
mechanicmatt
Hoards Thumbshifters
 
mechanicmatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Signal Mountain, TN
Posts: 637

Bikes: '87 Bruce Gordon Chinook, '08 Jamis Aurora, '86 Trek 560, '97 Mongoose Rockadile, & '07 Stumpjumper

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked 43 Times in 26 Posts
I don't understand the want of a click. I have mostly Shimano stuff on road bikes and I hate the click. I'd rather fade into the sounds of the environment and not add to it. Silence or near to it is good for me.
mechanicmatt is offline  
Likes For mechanicmatt:
Old 11-08-19, 01:33 PM
  #30  
littlevikingca
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 18

Bikes: Kona Sutra, BMC SLX-01, BMC CX-1, Ridley Fenix, Claud Butler European, '50's Humber Roadster, '53 Rudge Pathfnder, '94 Trek 930, '48 Rochet Super Special, 60's A. Boisis "demi-course"

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 3 Posts
Hi,

I intended to use a mid-90's Trek 930 for use as my "winter" bike but the one I secured was so nice (lightly used) that I ended-up converting it to my "commuting bike" and, since retirement -my "grocery getter" -I used a modern lower end drive train and derailleurs/shifters (Alivio), Shimano CX cantilevers, (with Shimano road/MTB flat bar brake levers), etc. Kept the original wheels with the Alivio silent hub and it has been in action for the last 3-4 years without issue. I picked-up a spare freewheel body from e-bay "just in case" but I don't foresee the need to ever use it based on my experience to date.

I have used it a few times in the winter (with studded tires) in colder temperatures (0-32 F) and I don't recall any issues under those conditions either.

The conversion


Silent Hub

Last edited by littlevikingca; 11-08-19 at 02:29 PM.
littlevikingca is offline  
Likes For littlevikingca:
Old 11-08-19, 02:17 PM
  #31  
hokiefyd 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Northern Shenandoah Valley
Posts: 2,554

Bikes: 2018 Redline Zander, 2018 Giant Roam 2, 1997 Trek 750, 1981 Peugeot PBN10, 1970 Peugeot UO-18

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 868 Post(s)
Liked 126 Times in 100 Posts
Shimano had silent hubs before the LX ones in the early 2000s: they had an Alivio level FH-R050 hub in the mid-90s. My '97 Trek 750 has one stock, and it looks exactly like the LX hub shown above. I think the only difference is the Alivio has a 7-speed freehub and the LX has an 8-speed freehub.


2017-05-19_05-14-33 by jnjadcock, on Flickr

I rather like it. It does have a softer engagement feel than a pawl'd hub (no "clunk" when quickly engaged).
hokiefyd is offline  
Likes For hokiefyd:
Old 11-08-19, 02:23 PM
  #32  
Reynolds 531
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Reno nevada
Posts: 352

Bikes: 4 Old school BMX, 6 Klunkers, 5 29er race bikes, 4 restored Sting Rays, Now 3 vintage steel bike being built up

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by hokiefyd View Post
Shimano had silent hubs before the LX ones in the early 2000s: they had an Alivio level FH-R050 hub in the mid-90s. My '97 Trek 750 has one stock, and it looks exactly like the LX hub shown above. I think the only difference is the Alivio has a 7-speed freehub and the LX has an 8-speed freehub.


2017-05-19_05-14-33 by jnjadcock, on Flickr

I rather like it. It does have a softer engagement feel than a pawl'd hub (no "clunk" when quickly engaged).
Thanks for the info. This helps my ebay search.!!!!
Reynolds 531 is offline  
Old 11-08-19, 02:34 PM
  #33  
littlevikingca
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 18

Bikes: Kona Sutra, BMC SLX-01, BMC CX-1, Ridley Fenix, Claud Butler European, '50's Humber Roadster, '53 Rudge Pathfnder, '94 Trek 930, '48 Rochet Super Special, 60's A. Boisis "demi-course"

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 3 Posts
Correction

Correction : My hub is the Alivio also -same Shimano number.
littlevikingca is offline  
Old 11-08-19, 03:31 PM
  #34  
riva
low end rider
Thread Starter
 
riva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 729

Bikes: 80's. hoarder.

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 22 Posts
Ebay nexave arrived, came in a shimano box. Looks beat up but shelf wear, no spoke marks. Wow its heavy. Doesn't matter much for what its going on, but WOW. Just as much backlash and friction as a pawl setup, feels like. But no clicky clicky.

Viking.. looks like the same as the alivio. At least externally. I did find another post here on BF saying they had years and years on a silent shimano without issues. The guys who exploded them seemed to be locost trials guys, like verk said putting high loads on them.
riva is offline  
Old 11-08-19, 03:42 PM
  #35  
littlevikingca
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 18

Bikes: Kona Sutra, BMC SLX-01, BMC CX-1, Ridley Fenix, Claud Butler European, '50's Humber Roadster, '53 Rudge Pathfnder, '94 Trek 930, '48 Rochet Super Special, 60's A. Boisis "demi-course"

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 3 Posts
Yes -it's an Alivio -I checked it based on the photos.

Cheers!
littlevikingca is offline  
Old 11-08-19, 03:58 PM
  #36  
riva
low end rider
Thread Starter
 
riva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 729

Bikes: 80's. hoarder.

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 22 Posts
Hokie, I have read the same comment about the "softer hit" on mtb forums talking about the sprag based onyx stuff. Some of them said it feels like it aids traction on dirt coming back in on the power after coasting.
riva is offline  
Old 11-08-19, 05:52 PM
  #37  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 6,729

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pederson racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 617 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 49 Times in 47 Posts
That's what I recall hearing the Shimano rep tell us at the Interbike seminar where these hubs were introduced to me. There is added torsional twist flex built into these freehubs, and this was touted as a benefit. I would be interested in trying one out myself.

I built one up into a wheel for my brother, and I recall that the hub seemed quite heavy.

Some time later, while out riding off road, I noticed that when he crossed a rough stretch in the trail, that the chain would tend to go extremely slack for a moment when he coasted, seems that the mechanism was somehow engaging the cassette to the hub body in response to the bumpy surface.

I also heard of these being rather fragile when used for serious off-roading, and they didn't last long on the market.

I always felt that Shimano's standard cassette hubs were some of the quietest around, but these are quieter for sure.
dddd is offline  
Old 11-08-19, 06:53 PM
  #38  
riva
low end rider
Thread Starter
 
riva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 729

Bikes: 80's. hoarder.

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 22 Posts
Yes, not sure how true it is but one user posted in a mtb forum said it felt like traction control.. iirc the trials guys are always exploding hubs, its not just the silent shimano.
riva is offline  
Old 11-08-19, 06:57 PM
  #39  
hokiefyd 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Northern Shenandoah Valley
Posts: 2,554

Bikes: 2018 Redline Zander, 2018 Giant Roam 2, 1997 Trek 750, 1981 Peugeot PBN10, 1970 Peugeot UO-18

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 868 Post(s)
Liked 126 Times in 100 Posts
Originally Posted by riva View Post
Hokie, I have read the same comment about the "softer hit" on mtb forums talking about the sprag based onyx stuff. Some of them said it feels like it aids traction on dirt coming back in on the power after coasting.
That could be true (traction). I think the real benefit of this design for mountain bikers, despite a number of drawbacks (like ultimate strength), is the absolute instant engagement of the hub with input torque. The ramps and balls and whatever it uses inside really work -- you can't turn the hub really slowly by hand to "sneak up" on it and incite forward free movement...it locks up tight. So instead of the 15, 20, 25 degrees of pedal movement before engagement...it's pretty much instant engagement, wherever you are.

I think the "softer hit" is the very slight damping effect from the hub driving the balls up the ramps and firmly into their pockets or outer shell or whatever it does to engage the clutch. Unlike a pawl-and-ratchet where you have a hard "clunk" engagement, these balls running up the ramps seems to provide that bit of damping.

One of the drawbacks is the freehubs are not interchangeable with standard freehub designs. Mine has a 7-speed body on it and I'm stuck with that. I didn't know that some of these came with 8-speed freehubs, and I suppose that an 8-speed R050 body could possibly be swapped to a 7-speed R050 body, but that'd be a long shot. In any event, if a freehub body on these was damaged or failed, I don't think the hub could really be saved (especially now that parts are long obsolete).
hokiefyd is offline  
Old 11-08-19, 09:46 PM
  #40  
Darth Lefty 
Disco Infiltrator
 
Darth Lefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 10,030

Bikes: Schwinn Paramount, Salsa Timberjack, Diamondback Expert TG, Burley Samba

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1647 Post(s)
Liked 238 Times in 155 Posts
Great! Now who has a Nexave Di2 bike?
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
Darth Lefty is offline  
Old 11-08-19, 10:02 PM
  #41  
Miele Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,361

Bikes: Miele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno SL, Miele MTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, VeloSport Adamas AX

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 422 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 67 Posts
Originally Posted by HTupolev View Post
Why would you want the rear hub to be quiet?

Next someone will say that a slick shouldn't hum on smooth roads.
When I ride the trails I like to be able to take images of animals. Unfortunately my 2001 Campagnolo 9-speed Veloce Freehub makes so much noise when coasting that any animals are long gone by the time I can get close enough to take an image. The Campagnolo Veloce hub is LOUD compared o all my other hubs.

Cheers
Miele Man is offline  
Old 11-09-19, 01:11 AM
  #42  
HTupolev
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,959
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1315 Post(s)
Liked 115 Times in 74 Posts
Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
When I ride the trails I like to be able to take images of animals. Unfortunately my 2001 Campagnolo 9-speed Veloce Freehub makes so much noise when coasting that any animals are long gone by the time I can get close enough to take an image. The Campagnolo Veloce hub is LOUD compared o all my other hubs.

Cheers
I don't see the problem. I take loads of photos of animals.

HTupolev is online now  
Old 11-09-19, 07:38 AM
  #43  
Miele Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,361

Bikes: Miele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno SL, Miele MTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, VeloSport Adamas AX

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 422 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 67 Posts
Originally Posted by HTupolev View Post
I don't see the problem. I take loads of photos of animals.

Neat.

The problem I have with the Veloce 9-speed freehub is that it's so noisy the deer and other mammalian critters are spooked by it before I can get within range to take a halfway decent image. I don't have that problem with my Shimano freehubs or freewheels or my Suntour freewheels.

Cheers
Miele Man is offline  
Old 11-09-19, 10:48 AM
  #44  
riva
low end rider
Thread Starter
 
riva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 729

Bikes: 80's. hoarder.

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 22 Posts
Do slugs have ears?

I think for downhill or tandems these hubs would be great. My thinking... tandems are already heavy, plus you have somebody to try and chat with. And DH.. the soft hit for dirt, you're often not pedalling, plus weight there is probably not as big an issue as road stuff. Might be good for commuting too.. knocking a few db off your bike could allow you to hear your surroundings that much better..

Some of the comments I read about soft hit were not necessarily related to traction but rather feel. Some folks said it just felt "right" to have the cushion of the engagement. I think its one of those things were you just have to try it to see if you like it. Like dragon fruit. If you never had one, what do you do. You try it.. maybe it is for you, maybe its not. Or like Robbie said.. just never stop pedaling!
riva is offline  
Old 11-10-19, 10:16 AM
  #45  
Reynolds 531
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Reno nevada
Posts: 352

Bikes: 4 Old school BMX, 6 Klunkers, 5 29er race bikes, 4 restored Sting Rays, Now 3 vintage steel bike being built up

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
When I ride the trails I like to be able to take images of animals. Unfortunately my 2001 Campagnolo 9-speed Veloce Freehub makes so much noise when coasting that any animals are long gone by the time I can get close enough to take an image. The Campagnolo Veloce hub is LOUD compared o all my other hubs.

Cheers
This is EXACTLY why I am paying the extra 100 grams for the Onyx hub.

I noticed that my other bike, with a DT Swiss all freshly lubed up, I would see more deer, turkeys, foxes, compared to when it needed relubing.
Reynolds 531 is offline  
Old 11-10-19, 02:17 PM
  #46  
hokiefyd 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Northern Shenandoah Valley
Posts: 2,554

Bikes: 2018 Redline Zander, 2018 Giant Roam 2, 1997 Trek 750, 1981 Peugeot PBN10, 1970 Peugeot UO-18

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 868 Post(s)
Liked 126 Times in 100 Posts
Originally Posted by HTupolev View Post
Why would you want the rear hub to be quiet?

Next someone will say that a slick shouldn't hum on smooth roads.
My '70 Peugeot Mixte is the quietest bike I have. It has a conventional pawl'd freehub, but the pawls are so quiet, it might as well be a silent roller clutch hub. And its older Bontrager Select Invert tires are the quietest tires I've ever had on a bike (though they don't necessarily look like they'd be quiet). Compared to some of my other bikes, which go humming and clicking down the road with various normal bike noises, this Peugeot is notably quiet. And I like that. When I ride it, it's like the bike just disappears, and it's just me and nature, with no machine between us. Maybe it's like taking a walk, but covering much more distance in the time spent.

I have a number of different types of bikes, from that '70 mixte (my oldest) to a pair of 2018 model bikes with aluminum frames and hydraulic disc brakes (my newest). I'm not converting all of my bikes to silent hubs or fanatically searching for the quietest tires, but there is something refreshing and fun about hopping on a bike that is almost like it's not even there.

Given the choice, I'd rather have no noise from the hub. The only advantage (to me) of a hub that makes noise is it alerts pedestrians to my presence. But my bell also does that, and I'd rather selectively ring a bell for the few times I interact with pedestrians than having a hub buzzing away every time I coast.
hokiefyd is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.