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Gino Bartali owned 1947 Legnano on the market~

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Gino Bartali owned 1947 Legnano on the market~

Old 11-06-19, 12:06 PM
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crank_addict
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Gino Bartali owned 1947 Legnano on the market~

Anyways, that's the sellers story and it ain't cheap.


https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F193195539351










Description:
One of the most beautiful historical bike ever seen. Legnano was the Alfredo Binda's brand. Binda one of the great italian rider during the pre Second World War period. The bike was made in 1947 by Bianchi Ugo, the famous Legnano frame builder, for Gino Bartali. This bike was certified by Bianchi Dino (the son of Bianchi Ugo) about ten years ago before dying. Bianchi Dino was a great expert in Legnano bikes made by his father and very famous all over the world for Alfredo Binda toe straps. The bike's frame number is 4716 where 47 is the year 1947 and 16 is the "reparto corse" serial number.
The frame sizes are cm 55,5 (c/c) x 55 (c/c).
The bike was bought by a Gino's fan at the end of 1947 Giro d'Italia (Gino was second, first until the stage Vittorio Veneto-Pieve di Cadore, but the winner was Fausto Coppi) and he leave the bike for more than 60 years in a box. There is no a Legnano Gino's bike like this and in this condition. Only other three Legnano Gino's bikes (1938/1946/1948) are known. This bike is in the original condition and was used just a few times. The bike has two left axel caps. Gino used to have two left axel caps because in this way he could screw them by himself. In fact he had serious problems with an axel cap during the 1940 Giro d'Italia that he lost for this reason (the young Fausto Coppi was the winner with Legnano jersey). This bike was found with the original pump holder and his original Silca pump. The Silca pump is one of the first model as we can see in the Gino Bartali picture where Gino is with his wife an his two little sons Luigi and Andrea. No one disassemble the bike or a part of that. There are also original Brooks toe straps, Brooks saddle, Gara stem, Campagnolo hubs,Universal brakes and FOM pedals.
Gino Bartali saved many Jews during the Second World War carring many documents for them inside the frame of his bike from Assisi to Florence. In 1948 during Tour de France Alcide De Gasperi, the italian first minister, called Gino to tell him to try to win the Tour to distract people because in Italy there were popular riots due to a Palmiro Togliatti attempt. He won the Tour with a Legnano Cambio Corsa bike similar to this one. In 2013 was declared "Giusto tra le Nazioni" or "Chasidei Umot HaOlam".
This bike is a part of cycle history.

Last edited by crank_addict; 11-06-19 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 11-06-19, 12:27 PM
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it is pretty hard to argue with that one as a "true museum piece" and it's in exactly the right condition, unrestored and original.

The price is high but I'm sure a serious offer for half that would get the attention of the seller.

It belongs in a museum of course. Go price a 20 year old ex Michael Schumacher F1 car for example, with documented race history. it's that kind of thing.

Mark Petry
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Old 11-06-19, 12:53 PM
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95,000 clams for a bike . . .
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Old 11-06-19, 02:33 PM
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Hmm, a lil Gugificazione on that, might be a rider...Quote
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Old 11-06-19, 02:52 PM
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To me it's a shame this is being sold rather than donated to a museum. I recognize that it's a valuable asset, but to throw it to the market rather than ensure it is preserved is a shameful act.
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Old 11-06-19, 07:06 PM
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If you're going spend 95k on a bicycle, one owned and road by Gino is as good as any. If it achieves that price, what does it say about bicycles, the story and history of bicycle racing, or the human that was Gino Bartali, if anything? It's an interesting exercise....
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Old 11-06-19, 07:18 PM
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I must admit I’m challenged to see that kind of value. I’m certain it has value and hopefully the bike will end up where it belongs , as a part of cycling history. The thing is , a bike like this is very hard to price and I believe the potential seller is fishing to see what kind of interest there is. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Joe
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Old 11-06-19, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TenGrainBread View Post
To me it's a shame this is being sold rather than donated to a museum. I recognize that it's a valuable asset, but to throw it to the market rather than ensure it is preserved is a shameful act.
Selling it for that kind of money will ensure that it is preserved.
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Old 11-06-19, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by TenGrainBread View Post
To me it's a shame this is being sold rather than donated to a museum. I recognize that it's a valuable asset, but to throw it to the market rather than ensure it is preserved is a shameful act.
That's a valid option but to me is questionable. Maybe a loan to a museum but nothing more. We don't know the reason why the sale offering, regardless it could be for family estate settlement, investment holding and the timing is ripe to unload, etc..

I greatly enjoy museums but don't trust the backside of them. And who's so official or authorized to rightly place a value on such one of a kind? There's lots of cronyism and angles to play cheat the tax man.

Personally have a family member acquired a rare and historic early auto that came out of the Museum of Science and Industry (and BTW: The museum recently announced a name change because of a mega donation and that philanthropist gets his recognition).

So, where do you think relics end up or if the dept. curator has his way or back act with the board and outsiders? Then there's other issues such as poor decisions in having proper preservation or the call for full restoration - often incorrectly done (that was very common in the 1970's). It happens.
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Old 11-06-19, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Ronsonic View Post
Selling it for that kind of money will ensure that it is preserved.
This exactly , collectors are some of the best conservators of all original anything that can be collected.
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Old 11-06-19, 10:08 PM
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It's a lot less expensive than a Macallan Scotch collection.

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Old 11-07-19, 04:19 AM
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Iīm a little surprised, that no one appears to question the validity of the story. The only evidence we have, that this is actually one of Gino Bartaliīs bikes, is a piece of paper from someone who is now dead (How convinient for the seller!), and thus canīt confirm it.
Some years ago, the Italians were notorious for selling fakes of collectible whiskies (Many were actually Macallan, or in some cases just fakes of Macallan with other whiskies in the bottles).
Faking is also far too common in the vintage guitar world. It is often said, that of the around 1700 sunburst Gibson Les Paul guitars made between 1958-1960, around 3000 of them is known today. A 1958 Gibson Explorer have even been sold to several well known players/collectors with photo documentation from the "original" owner from the early sixties. Only problem is, that both the guitar and the photos are fakes. Iīm pretty sure that the only winners in that case were the legal representatives in the court cases.
So A: Is the bike actually what it is claimed to be. I have no idea, as I know nothing of Legnano. It might well be what it is claimed to be.
But B: It is actually an ex Gino Bartali bike?. Again I know nothing, and it might well be true. But if I were buying the bike, I sure would want some very convincing evidence that the Bartali connection is real. Just like if I were buying a Hendrix guitar, I really would want some very good provenance, before I paid the HUGE extra amount of money, that a Hendrix connection would warrant.
And whats up with the text in the ad?. Does it matter that Bartali alledgedly saved a lot of jews in the war. Donīt get me wrong, I think itīs great, and if he wasenīt given a medal for it, then I think he should have been given one. But I would not be willing to give the current seller of the bike anything for that.
In my estimation, at least 90% of the like in questions price, is down to the Bartali connection. The provenance given is certainly not enough to make me want to pay that kind of money.
Again, I have no reason to believe that anything in the listing is not true, but really, better provenance is needed in my opinion, to pay that kind of money. Fortunately this bike is around 94.800$ beyond my current budget, so I donīt have to worry ībout it.
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Old 11-07-19, 05:00 AM
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Ideal candidate for a fixie conversion.

Originally Posted by Highmass View Post
Iīm a little surprised, that no one appears to question the validity of the story.
Probably because nobody is seriously considering buying it.
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Old 11-07-19, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Nemosengineer View Post
It's a lot less expensive than a Macallan Scotch collection.
And you can’t ride to the shops on a bottle of scotch.
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Old 11-07-19, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Highmass View Post
Iīm a little surprised, that no one appears to question the validity of the story.
A discussion of whether it's valid or not, based solely on weighing what information is given on the internet (aka, scans of 2d pictures and paperwork), seems like a fruitless effort, although surely an enjoyable fruitless effort best enhanced with your favorite beverage, surrounded with the usual band of bicycling misfits.
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Old 11-07-19, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Highmass View Post
...
And whats up with the text in the ad?. Does it matter that Bartali alledgedly saved a lot of jews in the war. Donīt get me wrong, I think itīs great, and if he wasenīt given a medal for it, then I think he should have been given one. But I would not be willing to give the current seller of the bike anything for that.
In my estimation, at least 90% of the like in questions price, is down to the Bartali connection. The provenance given is certainly not enough to make me want to pay that kind of money...
So, just to fill in the history bits, as I've read them, Gino Bartali did put his own life in danger to help save Jews during WWII by transporting counterfeit identification papers, by bicycle, in Nazi controlled Italy. He didn't receive any medals, because he never told anyone... if memory serves, the stories of his WWII exploits only came out very late in his life. So, is the ad well written? No, not particularly; the "saving Jews" text is there, but the reasoning for it remains omitted. Maybe the writer simply thought anyone interested in a bicycle rode by Gino would know the history. Does the fact that Gino put his own life in jeopardy to save others in WWII ad value to the bicycle? I think it greatly ads to the value to the life story of Gino Bartali. It moves him from the podium of "great bicyclist" to the podium of "great human, who just happen to be a great bicyclist too". I guess to the poets, dreamers, and story tellers among us, yeah, it does matter.
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Old 11-07-19, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
Hmm, a lil Gugificazione on that, might be a rider...Quote
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Old 11-07-19, 09:32 AM
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I see no good reason, why this couldn't turn into a bidding war amongst the uber-wealthy. I mean really, what's $95k to the likes of the Gates', Zuckerburgs (sp?), and Trumps of the world? 😁😉

Not to mention all the people with money AND sense enough to avoid publicity. 🤔
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Old 11-07-19, 09:52 AM
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This brings to mind the Seinfeld $1.5 million dollar Porsche Speedster sale and subsequent lawsuits over fraud. What a tangled web.


A thing is really still just a thing, value turns on humanity/soul. This can be in many ways, the art and craftsman ship of the builders ability, the use in a great moment of triumph or tragedy again only due to the riders that competed or were revealed and stripped of their triumphs, the paint scheme by a master painter, the fact that a grandfather built them their first real bike, these are all values of humanity, but then we get to values of money.


Money can use these as a basis of value and therein is some congruity between our humanity and the darker humanity of the market. Why darker, when he sold/traded a painting for a meal to not starve was that the value in money of a Van Gough? I see bikes all the time discarded for no value, given to thrift shops/good will etc. that in the market of ebay are of great value.

I think we purchase best in the market when we do so through the values of humanity/soul, because we have already given the value of our joy/enjoyment to the thing, and then if we use it: ride it, drive it, make things with it, we enter a time machine and for some moments on some rides/uses are in the domain of those artists, riders, etc. who created the soul that lives in the thing and that, that is priceless.
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Old 11-07-19, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by P!N20 View Post
And you can’t ride to the shops on a bottle of scotch.
I might not be able to ride the bottles, but I’d be just as happy after 3 glasses of scotch ...
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Old 11-07-19, 12:46 PM
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That's damn cool, but I'd rather have something from Coppi.
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Old 11-07-19, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by VtwinVince View Post
That's damn cool, but I'd rather have something from Coppi.

-----



And I'd rather have something from Ildefonso Soler.


-----
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Old 11-07-19, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by TenGrainBread View Post
To me it's a shame this is being sold rather than donated to a museum. I recognize that it's a valuable asset, but to throw it to the market rather than ensure it is preserved is a shameful act.
So its a Shameful Act to sell a bike for alot of $$$.

That horse of yours is pretty TALL.
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Old 11-07-19, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----



And I'd rather have something from Ildefonso Soler.


-----
Ill take one of Greg LeMond’s bikes ...
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Old 11-07-19, 04:29 PM
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I think if it was his actual WWII Bike (the one he used to move messages) the price might be inline.
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