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Campagnolo 10spd Veloce Conversion

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Campagnolo 10spd Veloce Conversion

Old 11-14-19, 03:38 PM
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Campagnolo 10spd Veloce Conversion

Hello,

I currently have campagnolo veloce 10 speed on my 90s Bianchi reparto corse. I was wondering if anyone had experience with the 10spd Veloce and have any recommendations on upgrading this groupset?

Thank you!
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Old 11-14-19, 09:21 PM
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I’ve had several 10 speed Campy bikes, but only Record or Chorus. My understanding is that the only real difference from Record through Veloce is materials used in the component - which translates to weight savings?

What specifically are your trying to upgrade? Cassette? Shifters?

If it is going on a C&V, the question is whether the weight savings is really significant to justify the expense.
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Old 11-14-19, 09:47 PM
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Upgrade to what?
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Old 11-14-19, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Thalia949 View Post
I’ve had several 10 speed Campy bikes, but only Record or Chorus. My understanding is that the only real difference from Record through Veloce is materials used in the component - which translates to weight savings?
Shifter internals are slightly different depending on year. Early on I think Record Chorus had ball bearings in them, later on, Record changed to having some unique internal parts. There's also the single/double pivot brake thing, and some design differences in things like cranks. The lower end ones also had more stamped parts like chainrings and derailer cages, and lots of various small assembly differences that changed over the years which makes it hard to talk about groupsets, because Campagnolo didn't trickle down in discrete generations as much as constantly make minor tweaks.

However, the only ones that you'd probably be able to notice is the shifter if you have a worn set of ergos, the rear brake, and maybe worse shifting with stamped chainrings.
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Old 11-15-19, 06:57 AM
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Didn't some Veloce 10 speed shifters only click one higher gear at a time?
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Old 11-15-19, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by nomadmax View Post
Didn't some Veloce 10 speed shifters only click one higher gear at a time?
This is correct. I have Veloce on my Merckx, and the shifters are ultrashift, which moves multiple cogs both up and down. I think they are pre-2014. The more recent Veloce shifters are one-cog-at-a-time shifters, most likely to lure riders to move up to higher-end groups that offer that functionality.
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Old 11-15-19, 12:41 PM
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I have 10-speed Veloce on one of my bikes. I would not upgrade it. I love it as it is. The shifting is better than on any of my bikes. Do I have low standards?
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Old 11-15-19, 03:07 PM
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I have used and serviced about every vintage of Ergopower shifters from early 8-speed to 11-speeds.

If your Veloce shifters are Ultrashift 10-speeds (multiple downshifts), then there is no upgrade. When new, the shifting will be as good as any mechanical shifting ever made, right up to current. The internals of these shifters are as good as any Ultrashift shifters (up to Record) with only minor differences in materials. The cartridge bearings on the central shaft in Record and Chorus have no discernable positive effect on shifting - as far as I can tell. I have multiple sets of Campagnolo 10-speed Ultrashift shifters (Record, Chorus, Centaur, Daytona, Veloce) and I can feel no performance difference between them.

These shifters are rebuildable so that with the replacement of $25 worth of parts, they are essentially new. I have 8-speed Ergopower shifters that have gone through 4 rebuilds over 20 years, and perform as well as new.

I see many cyclists with shifting problems. 90% of the time it is due to kinked cables, frayed cables jamming up the system, worn-out chains, etc.

With Ultrashift, replace the G-springs and spring carrier when needed. Replace the hoods every few years. Replace the shift cables and housing yearly. Replace your chain every 2 - 3,000 miles - max.
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Old 11-17-19, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
I have used and serviced about every vintage of Ergopower shifters from early 8-speed to 11-speeds.

If your Veloce shifters are Ultrashift 10-speeds (multiple downshifts), then there is no upgrade. When new, the shifting will be as good as any mechanical shifting ever made, right up to current. The internals of these shifters are as good as any Ultrashift shifters (up to Record) with only minor differences in materials. The cartridge bearings on the central shaft in Record and Chorus have no discernable positive effect on shifting - as far as I can tell. I have multiple sets of Campagnolo 10-speed Ultrashift shifters (Record, Chorus, Centaur, Daytona, Veloce) and I can feel no performance difference between them.

These shifters are rebuildable so that with the replacement of $25 worth of parts, they are essentially new. I have 8-speed Ergopower shifters that have gone through 4 rebuilds over 20 years, and perform as well as new.

I see many cyclists with shifting problems. 90% of the time it is due to kinked cables, frayed cables jamming up the system, worn-out chains, etc.

With Ultrashift, replace the G-springs and spring carrier when needed. Replace the hoods every few years. Replace the shift cables and housing yearly. Replace your chain every 2 - 3,000 miles - max.
Thank you for this awesome advice from your expertise! It is veloce with ultrashift, I love the way it feels but was wondering if there was better out there.

One thing that is kind of annoying is when if I shift from the small chainring to the big one too fast, the chain slips off the ring. Would this be because the limiters on the front derailleur aren’t properly tuned?
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Old 11-17-19, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Kenukeanu View Post
Thank you for this awesome advice from your expertise! It is veloce with ultrashift, I love the way it feels but was wondering if there was better out there.

One thing that is kind of annoying is when if I shift from the small chainring to the big one too fast, the chain slips off the ring. Would this be because the limiters on the front derailleur aren’t properly tuned?
To the OP, you are probably correct about that.

But first, verify that the lower edge of the outer cage plate is just a couple of millimeters above the tips of the big chainring's teeth.
Also verify that the outer cage plate is nearly parallel to the outer chainring.
Observe whether the derailer cage is bent/damaged.
Observe whether the big chainring turns straight, i.e. no side-to-side wobble.

Now, shift to the tallest gear (big chainring and smallest rear cog), then observe what clearance exists between the outer cage plate and the chain. This clearance should be near-zero IF the chainring turns without any significant side-to-side warpage/wobble.
So there should also be no chain rubbing against the front derailer cage following an upshift to the tallest gear.
You will then want to tighten the outer-most (hi-limit) screw so that upshifting to the large ring doesn't create any excess of the chain clearance there, but still no rubbing of the chain against the outer cage plate.
Then shift up and down a few times to verify robust shifting AND chain control.

Lastly, the cable tension may need attention after re-setting the limit screw, but unlikely here if shifting seems quick and reliable.
Also lubricate the cable where it passes under the bottom bracket shell.

Last edited by dddd; 11-17-19 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 11-17-19, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I have 10-speed Veloce on one of my bikes. I would not upgrade it. I love it as it is. The shifting is better than on any of my bikes. Do I have low standards?
No, very high standards, IMO. I have a set of Veloce aluminum levers that ratchet MANY steps on the left shifter, and can shift up or dump nearly the entire 10 speed width.
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Old 11-18-19, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Kenukeanu View Post
Thank you for this awesome advice from your expertise! It is veloce with ultrashift, I love the way it feels but was wondering if there was better out there.

One thing that is kind of annoying is when if I shift from the small chainring to the big one too fast, the chain slips off the ring. Would this be because the limiters on the front derailleur aren’t properly tuned?
Install one of the two products below and it won't happen again. It's the 16 tooth difference and narrow chain that makes it happen, especially on double downshifts.

https://k-edge.com/shop/chain-catche...chain-catcher/

DOG FANG - Deda Elementi - Componenti per biciclette
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Old 11-19-19, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by nomadmax View Post
Install one of the two products below and it won't happen again. It's the 16 tooth difference and narrow chain that makes it happen, especially on double downshifts.

https://k-edge.com/shop/chain-catche...chain-catcher/

DOG FANG - Deda Elementi - Componenti per biciclette
Thank you for the tip! I looked up a install tutorial and it seems this is for stopped the chain from slipping off the small chainring when downshifting. There's no problem when I downshift, it usually slips off when I upshift.
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Old 11-19-19, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by dddd View Post
To the OP, you are probably correct about that.

But first, verify that the lower edge of the outer cage plate is just a couple of millimeters above the tips of the big chainring's teeth.
Also verify that the outer cage plate is nearly parallel to the outer chainring.
Observe whether the derailer cage is bent/damaged.
Observe whether the big chainring turns straight, i.e. no side-to-side wobble.

Now, shift to the tallest gear (big chainring and smallest rear cog), then observe what clearance exists between the outer cage plate and the chain. This clearance should be near-zero IF the chainring turns without any significant side-to-side warpage/wobble.
So there should also be no chain rubbing against the front derailer cage following an upshift to the tallest gear.
You will then want to tighten the outer-most (hi-limit) screw so that upshifting to the large ring doesn't create any excess of the chain clearance there, but still no rubbing of the chain against the outer cage plate.
Then shift up and down a few times to verify robust shifting AND chain control.

Lastly, the cable tension may need attention after re-setting the limit screw, but unlikely here if shifting seems quick and reliable.
Also lubricate the cable where it passes under the bottom bracket shell.
Thank you for the expertise! I'll make sure to do this when I get home.
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Old 11-19-19, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Kenukeanu View Post
Thank you for the tip! I looked up a install tutorial and it seems this is for stopped the chain from slipping off the small chainring when downshifting. There's no problem when I downshift, it usually slips off when I upshift.
Those devices will still prevent the chain falling off.

I’m a fan of the N-Gear Jump Stop with my triple ring setups, but that one seems to be unavailable these days.

@dddd didn’t mention adjustment of the FD low limit, which should be set so that the chain just clears the inner cage plate when in the lowest gear (small chain ring, biggest rear cog). Then increase that clearance only as necessary to get a reliable downshift in front. Check that for a variety of rear cogs.

I’d also suggest verifying that your chain is the shortest possible. I like “big cog-big ring + 1” with my 8-speed Ergo systems. I noticed that the following video has a section specifically for Campy.


Last edited by Dfrost; 11-19-19 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 11-19-19, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by speedevil View Post
The more recent Veloce shifters are one-cog-at-a-time shifters, most likely to lure riders to move up to higher-end groups that offer that functionality.
Well, that's sure evil. And smart.

I had the newer Veloce on a Simoncini, and I thought it outperformed a lot of stuff. I must have been paying attention to the build that day.
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Old 11-19-19, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post

With Ultrashift, replace the G-springs and spring carrier when needed. Replace the hoods every few years. Replace the shift cables and housing yearly. Replace your chain every 2 - 3,000 miles - max.
I think you meant ergopower, not ultrashift. Campy no longer offers internal parts for ultrashift levers. They only sell a major assembly to fix a broken or worn lever.

Real early model 10 speed Centaur ultrashift levers had ball bearings, just like Record. I had some of those that I later converted to 11 speed.

FWIW, the new Chorus 12 speed is the best performing Campy group I've owned. I recently sold a 2018 Chorus 11 group and replaced it with 12. I really like the 12 speed shifters, but there is no silver version.
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Old 11-19-19, 03:23 PM
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Finally got to 10 posts! Not sure if the shifters are ergo or ultra now.. but they shift about 4 up and 4 down . Here are some pics of the components:



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Old 11-19-19, 03:41 PM
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Great pictures, I'm glad to see that this bike isn't a mess.

All looks good, but what can't be seen is how far outward that the cage moves when the shift is actually occurring, before letting go of the upshift lever.
It should always be able to move slightly beyond the position that it comes to rest at, so that the rest position (after the upshift has been completed and your hand released) is not solidly up against the hi-limit screw tip (otherwise the cable tension will tend to force downshifts in response to even slight flexing of the downtube and seattube junction).
The slight bit of allowable cage travel beyond the rest point also makes shifting faster and easier on your hand muscles, and improves the service life of the G-springs, cable and derailer. The same applies to the rear derailer btw, except that it is the lo-limit screw that must not be set too tight (noting also that any subsequent cable tension adjustments will affect how the limit screw setting intercedes at the travel limit where the largest sprocket is engaged).
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Old 11-19-19, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
I think you meant ergopower, not ultrashift. Campy no longer offers internal parts for ultrashift levers.
Nope: my original post used accurate and precise language.

Ergopower is the general term for all Campagnolo integrated brake/shift levers from about 1992 to present. Brifters, if you wish.

Ultrashift is the category of Campagnolo shifters that have multiple downshift capability. Powershift requires that you hit the downshift paddle for every gear change. Ultrashift is now limited to Chorus and above. Circa 2006, Campagnolo had 9 and 10-speed Ultrashift levers down to the Veloce level. I may even have some 9-speed Mirage levers in a box with the Ultrashift feature. The internals of the Ultrashift levers were functionally equivalent, and shifted the same - as far as I could tell, in terms of precision, accuracy and ergonomics.

The internals of Ultrashift levers changed around 2010. Previously, the indexing was accomplished with G-springs running over a notched disc; the springs had to be replaced every 10,000 miles or so, and the spring carriers often cracked. After 2009, Campagnolo accomplished the indexing using a couple of spring-loaded ball bearings that ran over a notched plate. I have serviced both types of shifters - many times. The new design is an improvement in terms of longevity, but the shifting is no better than the old design.

Bearings.. what I was referring to was the two rows of cartridge bearings around the central shaft in the older Chorus and Record Ultrashift levers. Theoretically, they had less friction and therefore easier shifting than the brass bushing in the lower-lever levers. In practice, I couldn't tell any difference.
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