Bianchigirll 

I think I may try and collect a nice looking Suntour group for the 'Speckled Trout' Bertoni. I already have most of a mixed Campi kit for it but...

So the hierarchy was Superbe, Sprint, Cyclone then the Alphas right? And GPX and Radius sort of replaced everything yes? (1987 to 1994ish the indexing and downfall era)

If I can find a nice looking 172.5 Superbe Pro crankset that won't break the bank how hard will it be to find the correct size BB for it? Not necessarily Suntour.

Velobase doesn't seem to indicate whether Sprint had different length cranks, did it come in 172.5?

Shifting will likely be retrofriction either by Campi or DiaCompe shifters, but I am open to index if I see a nice pair.

Sorry, wheels are likely to be shimano 7spd cassette hub no matter what group I put on it. I put that hub on most of my bikes years ago when I started selling off all my CampI FW hubs/wheels. I already have a pair of very nice silver tubulars built up I may use.

Mr. 66

I'm using Cyclone 7000 cranks on my Fuji, on my build I used a Sugino 109mm bb.

trainman999

The catalogs of Japanese vintage bicycle check here bb specs for Superb pro and Sprint

dddd

The Alpha designation is more about a point in the indexing era than about quality level, since there were a range of Alpha derailers of varying quality (higher number equating to higher-tier quality). I think that they topped out at the 9000 level, and the bottom level was 3040. 7000 and up were quite nicely finished.

An appropriate square-taper bb for any of Suntour's cranks shouldn't be hard to source, but be aware that at some point the Superbe and Sprint cranksets changed from "Superbe" (actually exactly equivalent to ISO i.e. Campag cartridge, and to older Sugino Mighty) taper to JIS taper in the ~early-to-mid 1990's.

Mr. 66

The black Edge group would do well. I just picked up a Black Lighting.

Markoshawn

Cranks are def 170s. The indexing on these Accushift DT shifters is very nice. Only beef is that I put a 24 tooth large cog on with a different freewheel and I really don't think you could go bigger without a wolf tooth adapter. Also the brake lever hoods were replaced with some ill fitting cane creeks so I put more modern levers on. I got the bike in almost as new condition and the groupset is like jewelry. Would recommend Sprint if you can work around those issues.

ryansu

My recently acquired 89 Allez had a GPX group and it indexs very nicely however what I understand from other BF members in the know is that in Friction mode its meh and it only places nicely for indexing with GPX RDs. For some reason I have been seeing allot of GPX on CL bikes lately so getting a CL deal on a whole bike and scavenging the Group might be an option. Looking forward to your build -that Frame is gorgeous.

masi61

There are lots of other SunTour variants that would work well for you. X-1 was nice, as was XC-9000, XCD 6000, XC Pro - basically a lot of the touring or mountain components can be put to good use in either friction or index mode.

The Sprint cranks were produced in 172.5 length AFAIK. So if you keep looking around, eventually you will find some. For shifters, the Command shifters can be run in "Accushift" index mode or a sort of retrofriction mode.

SJX426 

@Bianchigirll - small correction, the Superbe Pro was the highest level. Often people mis identify Superbe and the Pro versions of the same parts. The Superbe Pro brake levers for example and often all the other parts. Much like Monoplaner brake calipers.

wrk101

I love Suntour but I can't stand Blaze, Edge, or most the Accushift either. Superbe Pro is where it is at, late 1980s indexed if you prefer. The Pro had cartridge bearing hubs (like Phil Wood). Nice.

The black Sprint was also a nice set which showed up on earlier Black Lightnings.


Acquiring the Superbe Pro stuff a part at a time will be expensive. But I have seen full Superbe Pro bikes at a reasonable price. Have my eyes on one right now...

Salamandrine 

I worked on that stuff every day during that period and I can't remember. Seems like they changed every year. I think you'd have to go on a year by year basis to get the hierarchy correct. They were a little lost IMO.

The late 80s were somewhat confusing. Earlier on there was just Superbe and Cyclone, and Superbe was the top of the line, and then the regular line. Really early on, Cyclone was top of the line. The first Superbe 'pro' stuff was in 1984 or so, IIRC.

Remember that originally, Suntour only made derailleurs, chains, and freewheels. The first full component group was Cyclone I think, and they farmed out the brakes, the hubs, and the cranks.

T-Mar

The Alpha series were the entry level, 1st generation Accushift groups produced from 1987-1988. They were below Superbe Pro, Sprint and Cyclone. In 1989 Cyclone was discontinued in favour of the new GPX group, with Radius and Edge replacing the Alpha groups and an even lower Blaze group being introduced.

I've got three top end bicycles from the very early 1990s with Campagnolo C-Record Syncro II, Shimano New Dura Ace STI and SunTour Superbe Pro Accushift. Dura-Ace is by far my favourite, to the point where I'd be willing to part with the Superbe Pro and C-Record.

dddd

I never saw the Alpha 9000 parts as being close to entry-level. Although lacking ball-bearing pullies, they looked to be about only one step down from the best (having alloy cage plates, fully forged para links and pearl anodized finishing throughout).

But, was Alpha 9000 ever a complete gruppo, I can't say. And aren't they usually found with a long cage?

Alpha Freewheels seemed all to be of about the same quality, and were the best ones for Accushifting that I have used. They featured additional cog tooth bevels that really help shifting (simple bevels that I occasionally apply [using a bench grinder] to earlier Ultra-7 freewheels, for friction-shifting use).

67tony 

I've got a near complete group of plain Superbe, not Pro, waiting for an appropriate frame.

I also had a since-sold '72 Schwinn Super Sport, with Sprint everything.
Loved that bike, but sold it to a guy in Chicago who loved it also!

Wileyone 

Superbe Pro was not originally the top Dog it was Cyclone. When Superbe came out Cyclone took a backseat and became fat and ugly. IMHO 1st generation Cyclone was the best that Suntour made.

uncleivan 

As far as I know, Superbe, and Superbe Pro were not made at the same time. Each was the top dog when they were produced. More an evolution so to speak. Pretty sure that Superbe, and regular Sprint were friction only. In 87 Sprint 9000 was released which was index capable. Same with the superbe pro. Sprint 9000 is almost identical to superbe pro. Brake calipers look the same as Superbe Pro, but without the hidden springs.

T-Mar

I've never seen "Alpha 9000". Suntour assigned the 9000 number to the Accushift version of Sprint and the Accushift version of Cyclone got the 7000 designation. The only Alpha groups were 5000 and 3000.

T-Mar

Cyclone was released for the 1975 model year. It was SunTour's top derailleur for only two years. However, at the time it was only a derailleur set. Superbe was SunTour's first group. Cyclone didn't achieve group status until 1985.

SJX426 

OOOOk you guys! I looked up the Superbe time lines in Velobase.

Superbe 1977-1983

Suberbe II RD-5300 1983-1986

Pro RD 3100 - 1979-1983

Pro RD-5200 1979-1986

Pro RD - 5200 Accushift and Index 1983-86

Pro RD-SB00-SS8 1986-1994

Looks like overlap to me along with some justified confusion.

Is Velobase in error?

T-Mar

Superbe was introduced for the 1977 model year and produced through to the end of 1986. It was friction only. Superbe Pro debuted in 1981 and was manufactured through to SunTour's demise in 1994. It was index compatible from 1987 onwards. As you can see from these dates, Superbe and Superbe Pro were produced concurrently from 1981-1986. Consequently, Superbe was SunTour's premiere road group for 1977-1980 and Superbe Pro took over after that.

Sprint was introduced for 1986 as a friction derailleur and the Sprint 9000 indexed version made it's appearance for the 1987 model year. Both were offered for 1987, with the friction version being a less expensive option for manufacturers not fully committed to indexing. In 1989, the Sprint 9000 designation was quietly dropped from the catalogues, though the 9000 designation remained on the derailleurs. The group was replaced by SL for 1991.

Cyclone and Cyclone 7000 had a similar evolution, with the Cyclone name been dropped in favour of GPX for 1989.

dddd

You are right, I had somehow equated the Alpha letter designation to all of these later derailers which had a similar form, and which would presumably use Alpha freewheels.
And I did recall Cyclone being one tier below Sprint during those years.

I messed around quite a bit with Suntour 7s indexing in the early 90's, mostly using the Superbe Pro RD with Command shifters.

I'm still using what I guess is a Sprint 7000 RD on my '79 PX10 (using retrofriction levers). Good derailer, but only handles 26t.

merziac

I have posted this before but here it is again, it is a very succinct telling of Suntour's history by our very own @pcb.

https://outspokencyclist.com/tag/paul-brodek/