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C&V Resuscitation: Rust, Paint & Chrome

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C&V Resuscitation: Rust, Paint & Chrome

Old 11-29-19, 05:37 PM
  #26  
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Here is a link to an article about less toxic and non toxic ways to strip paint. https://homebuilding.thefuntimesguide.com/green_ways_how_to_remove_paint/
If you want to strip the fork separately.
YOU GOT THIS!

Last edited by FBOATSB; 11-29-19 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 11-29-19, 05:52 PM
  #27  
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+ 1 on the naval jelly treatment just be sure to do it outside, well ventilated, wear gloves, when I spot treat I have a large spray bottle for rinsing it off and then wipe it down with an old towel
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Old 11-29-19, 05:52 PM
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Matt, for reference, here are some pics my corroded Lemond Tourmalet. Scary!

IMG_1015

IMG_1016

IMG_1017

IMG_1018

IMG_1019
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Old 11-29-19, 06:16 PM
  #29  
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deux jambes,
Even on a very limited budget I think the wisest course of action is a good powder coating place. To keep a piece of history like that around it is cheap. And maybe not in your current budget. But I have sent about six or seven to my "coaters" of choice and all with excellent results. They dip, blast, phosphotize, and then powder coat. They charge me $200 but I get a perfect frame and fork back every time. I add decals here and then clear coat with lacquer over the powder coating, and all works well each time. In most cases the process costs about as much as the frame is worth, but it restores the frame for posterity and makes you the proud owner of a classy looking vintage frame. And the finish is very durable. I understand the need for low cost restoration for many bike enthusiasts, being poor is not something we try to do, but more a result of circumstances, and is not a sin. But to save up for a couple of months to get the frame treated properly will pay off in future riding enjoyment. You likely had to save up to buy the frame, or do without something to get it in your possession, so why not take few extra steps to get it right the first time? You will likely find this one to be a keeper and will have fond memories of the process. Smiles, MH
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Old 11-29-19, 06:27 PM
  #30  
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What I would do, even before trying any rust remover solution, would be to scrape and/ or wire brush the various problem areas, to try to determine the worst spot, as far as depth of rust and pitting. Then concentrate on that spot with scraping, picking, and wire brushing to see if you can get it adequately to clean metal, without actually going all the way through the tubing. If you do get a hole, well, no need to worry about the rest of the rusty spots, imo.
I bought a Trek 760 off CL several years ago, for $100, that didn't look too bad mainly rust/ bubbling paint around the top tube cable braze ons, and some spots under the top tube. Upon cleaning the rust, scraping & using pointed awl to get to the bottom of the rust, I discovered it went all the way through the tube in spots. Not trying to discourage you, just saying it would be a good idea to look at it really close before investing too much time into it. Best of luck!
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Old 11-29-19, 11:18 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Schreck83
This approach takes more time, but it is compact, and not too costly:


Wallpaper pan $3, 1 gallon Evapo-rust ~$20. The seat tube needs to be dealt with using a different method, but the rest of the frame can be submerged. I used jars of water to raise the bath level. Stones in a plastic bag would work too. I've done two frames this way using the same gallon. White decals were slightly yellowed on the 2nd frame, however. Perhaps this wouldn't happen with fresh E-R.
Iíve heard that the best ideas are simple. I think your solution is a testament to that statement. When a container large enough to submerge an entire frame is too large to use for whatever reason, your pan is a great alternative! Well done, and thanks for sharing.
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Old 11-29-19, 11:56 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by 3speedslow
deux jambes

...I think, if I recall correctly, seeing this frame for sale some time ago. Better put I Hope.
About a year ago or so, there were actually two ads running in C&V sales around the same time.

I had a built bike that was too small to ever make a decent fit. It was a 50cm. I parted it out and sold the frame here to one of our local members just about a year ago. That ad has long since been deleted, but I still have a photo of the bike...



That little frame had very little rust, and the rust it did have was pretty superficial. The paint was far from perfect, but in overall better shape than what Iím working with now. It would have been an easy touch up job.

The 54cm frame Iím working on now first popped up for sale here July 2018. But no takers. A recent bump brought my attention back to it. I kept thinking of it as a ďbasket case,Ē and as much as I tried to reason, and talk myself out of it...

Last edited by deux jambes; 11-30-19 at 12:40 AM.
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Old 11-30-19, 12:13 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by thinktubes
Here's a post that shows the frame in all its glory. Probably, beyond a simple "touch-up", but not interested in a repaint.
Thanks for posting the link. I remember seeing that thread, and meaning to read through but never got around to it, and had since forgotten. Now I can look forward to it again.

By the way, this is one of my favorite colors for a bike!


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Old 11-30-19, 04:38 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by deux jambes
Thank you! Fast, light, and 1984ish period correct is the basic outlying plan. Also, your kind gesture has been met with a PM.

Cheers!
PM Sent

: Mike
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Booyah Hubba-Hubba!!!
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Old 11-30-19, 05:27 PM
  #35  
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An example of preservation, rust removed manually by scraping, wire brushing, and very fine scotch brite. Locally treated with Evapo Rust soaked rags wrapped around the frame, then tannic acid a rust convertor. the frame was polished with a rubbing compound then the entire frame treated with boiled linseed oil left to set for a few hours then wiped off. After sitting around for about a week many coats of wax were applied and I called it finished.

The Result


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Old 11-30-19, 08:34 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Nemosengineer
An example of preservation, rust removed manually by scraping, wire brushing, and very fine scotch brite. Locally treated with Evapo Rust soaked rags wrapped around the frame, then tannic acid a rust convertor. the frame was polished with a rubbing compound then the entire frame treated with boiled linseed oil left to set for a few hours then wiped off. After sitting around for about a week many coats of wax were applied and I called it finished.

The Result


: Mike
The before must have been pretty bad.
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Old 11-30-19, 10:32 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by nlerner
Matt, for reference, here are some pics my corroded Lemond Tourmalet. Scary!

IMG_1015
YIKES! Hopefully it looks worse than it really is?
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Old 11-30-19, 10:44 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Nemosengineer


: Mike
Mike, the approach you took to this Raleigh is similar to what a few folks have suggested in this discussion. Itís also the basic direction Iím taking so far.

I recall seeing a photo bike you built once. That was a while ago though, and I canít remember exactly what it was, other than I liked it very much. I think the build might have incorporated a few components more modern than the frame itself? By chance was it this same frame?
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Old 11-30-19, 10:50 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by merziac
The before must have been pretty bad.
Oh man, just wait til I post a few ďprogressĒ pics! 😳
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Old 11-30-19, 11:19 PM
  #40  
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Wide choice of options for each and every frameset condition and value.

Some should remain true original and honest, to retain the fine balance of 'attractive patina'.

Right off the top I would certainly do a complete strip of the OP frame. Strip exclusively using Klean (Bix) Aviation paint stripper. The paint removal process is pretty quick, long as you don't let the chemical dry. It lifts and bubbles, take a metal scrub pad as granny used with old kitchen pots and pans.

Verify frame alignment, repairs if needed, feather fill flaws, pitting / dings.

Paint, no powdercoat. That's a pretty desirable and special frame. If it was a less valuable or not rare frame, surely would consider a powdercoat.

Details are lost when powdercoating, and the majority of jobs don't prep enough all the tiny pits or flaws that this frame will have. And thick PC jobs don't belong on a vinti narrow tubed and lugged frame. Kills it for me. The factory didn't powdercoat this particular bike.

If you're on a strict DIY budget, do an immaculate prep job, (including, keeping your raw mitts and finger prints from handling), use Rustoleum 2X formula, apply using a handle spray attachment, use a proper technique with observing pattern and flash. Take your time. Let it setup before another coat.

Next- its almost Winter so put the freshly sprayed frame away for 60-90 days. Later on, decal it and top coat with urethane clear.

Last edited by crank_addict; 11-30-19 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 12-01-19, 12:10 AM
  #41  
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I would pass on that Frame. That rust looks a little bit to deep for me.
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Old 12-01-19, 12:18 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by deux jambes
Oh man, just wait til I post a few ďprogressĒ pics! 😳
Your before pics were pretty telling so I won't be too surprised wherever it ends up at. If I know you it will turn out better than one would expect.

The Raleigh looks pretty good but I can imagine it was in bad shape to start with, I have a silver one like this that is in really bad shape with the chrome on the forks almost gone, no idea what I am going to do with it.
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Old 12-01-19, 01:18 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by deux jambes
Mike, the approach you took to this Raleigh is similar to what a few folks have suggested in this discussion. Itís also the basic direction Iím taking so far.

I recall seeing a photo bike you built once. That was a while ago though, and I canít remember exactly what it was, other than I liked it very much. I think the build might have incorporated a few components more modern than the frame itself? By chance was it this same frame?
Hi deux jambes,
Yes it was, it was built up and I never did like the result, so the frame was moved to the back of the pile (where I will not have to look at it for a long time) and all the Dura Ace stuff and wheels will spawn a new project (currently in work but I'm not going to let the cat out of the bag).
I think the problem was the Raleigh Pro is such an icon that you can't update the thing without losing the mental picture of how cool it was in 1974, it looked strange to me because I tried to make it something it wasn't and it just didn't work with my aesthetic. I learned a lot with that project and i will try to do better on the next one.

: Mike


Last edited by Nemosengineer; 12-01-19 at 01:27 AM.
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Old 12-01-19, 06:01 AM
  #44  
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I recall some threads about brush painting frames. You could do that in your kitchen.

I would strip, treat rust, prep surface, fill pits, and brush prime / paint.

As for chrome on a tight budget, you could polish to mirror then try the best of the chrome paints -

Last edited by jyl; 12-01-19 at 06:16 AM.
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Old 12-01-19, 02:47 PM
  #45  
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@3speedslow nope, different frame. The one you see here is one I bought off CL out of Birmingham.

Not sure on soaking frames in Evaporust. I use the crap out of that stuff, but it says pretty clearly on the instructions, you need to rinse (and if I recall, brush) off after soak. Can't do that inside frame tubes, so I've been skipping.

My method, which I've used with great success, is really close to what @capnjonny describes above but maybe a bit less mechanically harsh. Get some ultrafine 0000 bronze wool from the hardware store and a few old toothbrushes, plus a slightly larger brush. Get a small bucket with a couple shotglasses full of your favorite car wash liquid and an inch or two of water. Also use a bottle of Simple Green HD, which is alloy-safe.

I prefer to do this with a headset and fork installed so I can toss on crap wheels and roll the frame outside to stand up. I'll usually stuff a red shop cloth into the seat tube and head tube to prevent water entry. I spray the tubing down with a solid coat of Simple Green HD. I scrub the crap out of everything with the larger brush, all tubes, all nooks and crannies. Then I spray all the lug joints and seams and use a smaller toothbrush to scrub those a bit better. Then use the car wash tube and alternate dipping and brushing. Rinse it all off.

One tube at a time, I'll re-spray with Simple Green HD, and use the ultra-fine 0000 bronze wool while the tube is nice and wet and slippery and with lightest pressure, run the bronze wool across the tubing. What this will do is similar to wetsanding, the rust particles are large and will rub out before the clearcoat (if any) is impacted. It's not dissimilar to using a blade to remove the rust, but safer ... what I've found is, using the bronze wool will leave any adhering paint intact, so this is great for removing surface rust without impacting any paint that's clinging on. This is especially good for top tube cable clamp rust.

THEN, at the worst spots where rust is clearly visible, Naval jelly or evaporust wraps (wet a paper towel with it, wrap the tube tightly, then saran wrap that to abstain evaporation) should be used to treat the rust.

Once complete, the bronze wool is so gentle on the existing paint, you can use a compound to rub out the paint, bringing any unrusted paint back to a nice luster again. Then follow-up with polish.

But in your case, you will probably want to take a little 000 fine bronze wool (not 0000 ultrafine) to target those lug joints. I would consider using a Dremel with a small wire wheel disc on the TT cable guides and at the head lug and seat lug joints. Then spot-treat until you can get the frame refinished.

I prefer real paint. That's just me. Powdercoat, while strong, can rust underneath. Once it's done, it's done. Trying to remove the powdercoat again is a bear.

This is just my 2Ę of course, YMMV
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Old 12-01-19, 03:11 PM
  #46  
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This didn't look too bad when I I cleaned it up and had the frame powder coated. After about a year of riding it got flexy and creaking and I found this.


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Old 12-01-19, 03:15 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by dedhed
This didn't look too bad when I I cleaned it up and had the frame powder coated. After about a year of riding it got flexy and creaking and I found this.


OUCH!
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Old 12-01-19, 03:35 PM
  #48  
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Re stripping the paint off the frame, For my first time I sand blasted the entire frame with a home sand blaster on the driveway with a large tarp to catch the sand . Took hours but did a thorough job. The next time I used paint stripper to get most of the paint off followed by blasting . Took hours but thorough. Now I start by sanding the tubes with an orbital sander with 400 grit paper then sand blast the lugs and any bad rust spots. This gets the job done quicker than any other method and does not involve stripper, which is a real pita , especially on the lugs. If you ever intend to do more than one bike the Sand blast rig is well worth the minor cost. I have been using mine for 30 years on cars, bikes and any other rusty metal I want to paint. You will need a mid size compressor but what tinkerer doesn't already have one of those.

A hint. On forks with chrome spats, they are often clear coated with lacquer, which over the years yellows a bit but does help preserve the chrome. You can remove the clear coat by first masking off the paint , then wiping the chrome with acetone. please do outside and for protection wear a paint respirator ( I don't and have not been bothered by the fumes). I use white terry shop towel I buy at home depot with a spot of Acetone and vigorous rubbing . This doesn't scratch the chrome and after cleaning I rub any rust spots with 0000 steel wool and then use Braso to polish.
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Old 12-01-19, 03:43 PM
  #49  
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And ... this is exactly what I'm talking about with regard to powdercoat and rusting underneath. It happens more often than you hear people mention it. At least with paint you can see bubbling underneath.

Originally Posted by dedhed
This didn't look too bad when I I cleaned it up and had the frame powder coated. After about a year of riding it got flexy and creaking and I found this.


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Old 12-01-19, 04:20 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by francophile
And ... this is exactly what I'm talking about with regard to powdercoat and rusting underneath. It happens more often than you hear people mention it. At least with paint you can see bubbling underneath.
In powdercoat's defense the frame was rusty there to start with. I think it spent time as a trainer bike as the stem was stuck too. I sand blasted it before the powder coat and deemed the rust spots OK. I maybe should have probed a bit around the rust spots with an awl. These were 531DB tubes and the rust was in the thinner section. When it started I thought it was some rust bubbling through the PC but as it progresses and got flexy/creaky it turned out to be a crack.
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