Mysterious mid 80s Schwinn "Paramount"
 

I have a mysterious "semi-Paramount" that I purchased used about 25 years ago (approx. 1996) from the original owner. She had possibly purchased it 8 to 10 years earlier, but I didn’t ask many questions because, I am a bit embarrassed to admit, I was a recent college grad eating a lot of top ramen and just needed a good commuting bike. Original owner had purchased it as a frame/fork and, at some point, built it up with Shimano 600 Ultegra. After its gritty service as a daily commuter for almost 6 years, I cleaned it up, converting it to 9 speed and replacing many components over time. It was such a great ride that it became my top choice at least once or twice a week, seeing probably 40 or 50 miles a week these days. It absolutely sings along over rough pavement but happily jumps to attention when you stand on the pedals for a short hill sprint. As much as I enjoy the bike, I've always wondered about its pedigree. I am not interested in selling as I adore the bike, so I am just looking for any clues as to what this bike is. Here's the details:

It has a Paramount head badge. The serial number stamped into the left rear dropout is 205O2 – which matches none of the many online explanations of Schwinn serial numbers. There is no serial on the bottom bracket or around the head tube. The bike may have been repainted (the paint does not “seem” stock) and there is a decal from somebody named Beecroft on the underside of the top tube. The bike has the Reynolds 531 50th anniversary decal. So you’d think this bike was built in 1985. However, the rear derailleur cable guide is BELOW the chainstay, which Paramounts seem to have adopted in 1986 and later. The head tube sports very fancy lugs and the rear dropouts are Campagnolo racing (no rack braze-ons). This conflicts with the very boring seamed bottom bracket and the Tange fork. It seems like half of a Paramount or something. On the upside, the bike rides really well and I love it no matter what. So I am wondering the following:
- Is this an actual Paramount or something else?
- Is the paint a stock color? If so, can I buy touch up paint?
- How much of the bike is Reynolds 531 and does it use butted tubes?
- Was this originally sold as a frameset or was it a complete bike? If complete bike, what group did it come with?

I emailed Schwinn support but they were not at all helpful. Thank you in advance to anyone who can shed some light on the origin and pedigree of this bike. Pictures below (please ask if further pictures would help). And I just finished a wet ride, so forgive the dirt and grime ...
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3d29d3f931.jpg
Paramount head badge
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e48e1736f8.jpg
Fancy head lugs
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e440723882.jpg
Campy dropout with serial stamped in
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...38c90e2147.jpg
Beecroft decal under top tube
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f341be0f81.jpg
Reynolds 531 50th anniversary decal
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...aa7d2fc9ad.jpg
Full bike

What are the four tiny numbers stamped into the head badge?

Are those px10 lugs??

I just scoured the head badge and I don't see any numbers. My eyesight is not the best though. Is there somewhere specific to look?
Do I need to remove the head badge? It is held on by screws.

No reason to remove your badge. The numbers are lightly stamped on the front of the badge. Here is the badge on my Voyageur.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2a7516969.jpeg

it's an 81-83 Superior. 20502 2= 1982, 05= fifth week 02= second frame of week. It's been repainted is should be Orange 81-81, Platimun grey 83, or black if it came as a frame, it would have came with a complete Campagnolo GranSport group. It still has the Campagnolo Gransport crank so it was probbly a complete bike as delivered . Frame was made out of Renolds 531 dubble butted tubes, fork was Tange. Headbadge is wrong should say Superior insted of Paramount. Its Made out of the leftover Paramount tubes and lugs from when Schwinn shut down Paramount production in Chicago in 79. Braized up by Don Midland in Racine Wi a Schwinn subcontractor who braizes a lot of the chrome Paramounts in the 70's . So almost a Paramount but not quite. catalouge scans Schwinn catalogs, 1981 - 1990 (6 of 456) Schwinn catalogs, 1981 - 1990 (205 of 456)
My Superiorhttps://live.staticflickr.com/887/28...c88608f7_b.jpg100_4079 by galon783, on Flickr

Let me just add that Schwinn never screwed their round Paramount head badges in with Philips head screws. They are always flat bladed unless replaced.

https://i125.photobucket.com/albums/...1Headbadge.jpg
1971 Chicago Head Badge

I've never seen a Paramount after about 1983 with a round head badge. Beginning in '83 Waterford used decals on the head tube.

https://i125.photobucket.com/albums/...dtubeDecal.jpg
1983 Waterford head tube decal

Where the stays join the rear drop outs, the brazing does not look to be either Schwinn Chicago or Waterford to my eye.

https://i125.photobucket.com/albums/...6dropouts2.jpg
1966 Chicago Stays (rear Coppertone) and 1971 Chicago Stays (front red)

https://i125.photobucket.com/albums/...pstend0lft.jpg
1971 Chicago Stays

https://i125.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2eccf1b1.jpg
1983 Waterford stays

Based on the Nervex lugs and long rear dropouts, it seems this frame is a late 68s to mid 70s frame. Obviously repainted - the top tube guides, under-the-BB shell guides, rear derailleur cable stop and the gear lever braze-ons were most likely added when it was repainted. Back when this frame was originally built, the gear cable guides would have been Campy items on the top of the shell, and the brake cable would have been held by steel clips - the gear levers would have been band-on, too.

I don't know specifically because I'm not a Paramount pro, don't know their serial number code, so can't nail down a year. Sure looks like a solid frame in beautiful shape, though.

Can we get a couple pics of the BB shell and the seat lug details?

DD

If I had to put money on it, I would vote Superior.

There are a few non-Superior details.

The cable routing for the rear brake originally went under the TT, with no braze-on cable guides.

The cable-stop for the rear derailleur cable is not original.

Fender eyelets are missing front and rear, the fork does look like a Tange, but it could be aftermarket.

Looks like shifter braze-ons were added as well.

I'd guess the frame was modded whrn the repaint happened. Odd that a second set of bottle mounts were not added.

Superiors are awesome! I have an Orange '81 that I love.

EDIT: Adding a pic...

https://live.staticflickr.com/931/29...da0dbbb8_k.jpg

Where were the '81-83 Superior serial numbers stamped? On the rear drop out, or under the BB housing?

Superior Serial# on left rear droupout like Paramounts of 60's and 70's except they are five numbers starting with a 1 or a 2 no letters

That's a 1982 or 1983 (IIRC, some '83s did have Nervex lugs) Schwinn Superior with a Paramount badge. Built by Don Mainland for Schwinn out of leftover Paramount bits when the original, second-gen Paramount model was retired.

Basically, if it looks like a Paramount with diamond-reinforced water bottle mounts on the downtube, a generic Japanese bottom bracket shell, Tange fork, and the serial number in the same place as a Paramount (but stamped with a slightly smaller font), it is a Superior.

What gets me is that this frame appears to have been to the framebuilder for some braze-on modifications which are shockingly similar to the modifications on my own '82 Superior (#21057): Downtube braze-ons and under-the-BB cable routing with the same exact cable end braze-on in the exact same spot. Yours apparently received new top tube cable braze-ons as well, not to mention that we both wound up with Paramount badges. My guess is that it was easier to get a replacement Paramount badge than a red one-year 1983 Superior badge back when these bikes were repainted (to replace the bright yellow '81-82 variant). Very interesting that it has a mid-1980's 531 decal on it.

Mine received a replacement fork along the way; yours still appears to have the Tange fork.

Ignore the components and the faux French build; that's all my own doing. Bought it as a frameset from the LBS.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9a41861337.jpg

Note the cable stop. Would like to see a close-up of yours to find out if it is the exact same one.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...339a842e72.jpg

Same Paramount-badge-on-a-Superior thing going on here. Again, the way I got it, and the way the PO had it when it was up on Craigslist months before:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d2716f693e.jpg

Incidentally, mine has the mysterious remnants of a 1984+ Paramount racing stripe decal - minus the "P" - on the seattube.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1a5aec84be.jpg

Mine also wears the earlier 1973-1982 (roughly) 531 decal down by the bottom bracket:

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4f8c77faaa.jpg

Serial:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7570153bce.jpg


-Kurt

Looks like a Superior to me but shoot those pics to Richard Schwinn at Waterford. Great knowledge and quick responses to all of my Patamount questions.

Oh my gosh! Thank you SO much for all of that info. That is priceless and wonderful data. A couple of notes: none of the components are original, unfortunately. The cranks are actually the very first generation Dura Ace (pretty much a Gransport rip-off). I went online and saw a beautiful orange example and WOW! I sure wish it was original color. Yours is gorgeous ... especially the chrome forks! Thanks again.

Thanks for all of this info. This just reinforces how special this bike is. I love it even more. Your deep red model is really a beautiful example of how to build up a classic bike. Stellar!

thinktubes Nice Superior. I see yours has hsd the fork replaced too, is it a chrome Tange? Would you be willing to share your serial #and headbadge # to add to my Superior Datadase? Also the size is it 23" or 25"?

cudak888 Nice bike Are there any serial numbers known to start with a 3? The ones that dont have Neverx lugs? My 83 serial is 20432 and headbadge is 2422 , Jan 82 frame and turned into a bike in the middle of August 82. Interesting that yours, thinktubes and mine all have replacement forks. Did yours go back to Waterford to have the braze ons added? acidung's looks like it might have went there for the braze on's, stile and placement looks like my 86 Paramount.

Fork is a Chrome Tange (130 I believe). No HB number - it is an un-stamped NOS replacement I dug up. 23" frame.

The Superiors are nice little oddities, and I happen to think that they're a bit more livable than a 1970's Paramount thanks to the water bottle mounts and the P13 v2 geometry paired with fender stays. The Tange fork may not have the same snob appeal or refined lug shorelines as a Paramount, but the overall package lends itself to customization a bit better.

Probably - I might have even seen one before and forgotten about it. Funny how yours is obviously a 1982 frame, but already painted and decaled for the 1983 model year.

I can't answer the fork thing. Perhaps some Schwinn dealers received excess as frames only? That's only a guess, and not even a good one.

I don't know where mine went, but the PDG logo on the seattube didn't show up on its own. It also appears to be urethane paint (like Imron) as well. After seeing the nearly identical chainstay cable stop on acidlung's frame, I highly suspect some sort of connection.

I asked Richard Schwinn about this once (back in 2011), and received a reply as generic as they come:

Pfffbt. As usual, you wind up coming out of Waterford with roughly as much as you knew going in, whether you shelled money out for it or not.

-Kurt

Being a man of a "certain age," Teal is irresistible to me.

:D

You have a really cool bike! Enjoy.

Here's a Superior frame I have that I assume was from 83/84. I really don't know much about it but it is a nice looking frame... I can't find any serial #'s.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5cd18b9201.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...af4c6f8520.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e54d834b53.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5632c05773.jpg

Interesting. Definitely matches up with the catalog pic for 1983.

http://www.trfindley.com/flschwinn_1...1983Ltwt04.JPG

Looks like thet ran out of Nervex lugs by that point. Other deviations are the braze on shifters and TT cable loops. Also the cable routing at the BB is integrated. My '81 needs the bolt-on Campy do-dad. Wonder if these weren't Don Mainland frames...looks very similar to the build of the Super Sport.

Curious about the headbadge - the catalog shows a red background, but yours is the earlier yellow. Should have a date code stamped on it. Looks like yours has a second bottle mount, which doesn't appear in the catalog.

No date on the headbadge. Only number I can find is 25 on bottom bracket (25" frame). Nothing on dropouts either...Campagnolo.

Bogester,
Can you provide a straight on shot of the front and rear droupouts so we can see how they joined the forks and stays to the droupouts?

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...256c2869b.jpeg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...898677391.jpeg