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Chained Revolution's Schwinn Paramount registry - anyone save it?

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Chained Revolution's Schwinn Paramount registry - anyone save it?

Old 12-29-19, 01:26 PM
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Chained Revolution's Schwinn Paramount registry - anyone save it?

I'm working on a new Schwinn Paramount Registry for The Headbadge that has a form submission design. I'm configuring this one to include the Watsyn era all the way up to the '93 PDGs, plus the anniversary editions, which means there are a lot of conditional drop down menus to put together.

The form is still very much under construction, but it looks like this from the user's side:



Part of these conditional drop downs will be for lugs and fork/stay ends; especially for the Watsyn era. I want to make sure I at least cover the data that was originally in the Chained Revolution registry. Unfortunately, since the site was based in ASPX with Javascript pages, the only page that I can access through the Internet Archive Wayback Machine is page 1. Pages 2 through 5 are missing.

https://web.archive.org/web/20121024...paramount.aspx

By any chance, did someone save the remaining pages?

-Kurt
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Old 12-29-19, 01:30 PM
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Great form!!!

Sorry i do not have, but maybe someone from the schwinn forum might have.

I will ask.

Thank you

Michael
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Old 12-29-19, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemike73 View Post
Great form!!!

Sorry i do not have, but maybe someone from the schwinn forum might have.

I will ask.
Appreciate it. If you start a new thread up there, do link us up with it.

-Kurt
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Old 12-29-19, 06:52 PM
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Incidentally, I've been meaning to ask if anyone knows what fork crown (crown only - I know the lugs are Nervex Series Legere) Emil Watsyn used on the pre-1958 Paramounts.



-Kurt
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Old 12-29-19, 07:06 PM
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Kurt, nice job on that page! The contrast is easy on the eyes and appears to be well thought out. Sweet!
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Old 12-29-19, 07:49 PM
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@juvela often seems to know lugsets moreso than anyone else I've seen on BF. Tagging here to see if any help can be rendered.
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Old 12-30-19, 01:24 AM
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Sent them to your headbadge email
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Old 12-30-19, 06:50 AM
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Kurt, if our Paramounts are in the original Registry, should we reenter our information or will it be transferred? Thanks!
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Old 12-30-19, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by UKFan4Sure View Post
Kurt, nice job on that page! The contrast is easy on the eyes and appears to be well thought out. Sweet!
Thanks. It's a Wordpress based site now, but I'm trying not to stray from the established look of the site as it is now.

Originally Posted by francophile View Post
@juvela often seems to know lugsets moreso than anyone else I've seen on BF. Tagging here to see if any help can be rendered.
Excellent. Fingers crossed he has some insight.

Originally Posted by trainman999 View Post
Sent them to your headbadge email
Got it. Thank you so much for that.

Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
Kurt, if our Paramounts are in the original Registry, should we reenter our information or will it be transferred? Thanks!
It's going to be time consuming, but the original entries will be migrated, along with past/present owner information. This is what the new pages will look like on the front end. Excuse the placeholder pictures - I've been testing the upload system with whatever has been sitting in my scratch drive:



I may be able to add the entries with a .CSV file, but I'm not certain whether its possible. There are also 300+ emails in the Headbadge inbox from 6 or 7 years of inactivity that I'm debating entering manually. I could also send out a MailChimp asking everyone to re-submit.

I'm also debating whether to add a comments section on these pages or not.

-Kurt
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Old 01-13-20, 08:46 PM
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It seems you have gotten the Chained Revolution info, but if not let me know. Also, maybe you'd consider adding a field for serial number location, as it was quite variable in the 1940s and 1950s. And you might consider adding a field for Original Paint or Restored? I know a Registry is different than a database...I do have a spreadsheet of a few hundred Paramounts from eBay ads, online sources, etc....often backed up with photos. If that would be of use to you, I can provide the spreadsheet....spreadsheet includes serial number location; dropouts; seat stay caps.

-ccdc.1 (Michael)
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Old 01-13-20, 09:01 PM
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Keep us posted, I dont think my 74 P10 was ever registered/entered. will do when you get it set up!
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Old 01-14-20, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ccdc.1 View Post
It seems you have gotten the Chained Revolution info, but if not let me know. Also, maybe you'd consider adding a field for serial number location, as it was quite variable in the 1940s and 1950s. And you might consider adding a field for Original Paint or Restored? I know a Registry is different than a database...I do have a spreadsheet of a few hundred Paramounts from eBay ads, online sources, etc....often backed up with photos. If that would be of use to you, I can provide the spreadsheet....spreadsheet includes serial number location; dropouts; seat stay caps.

-ccdc.1 (Michael)
I have it in JPG form right now thanks to trainman999 , but if you have it as static HTML files, I'd be interested too. I needed the pages to get a better idea of lug transition dates, but it'd help to have the content in a form I can copy/paste.

I'll add an S/N location field. Do you know about when during the Watsyn era it was standardized? I'm trying to put (reasonable) cutoff dates on each form field, as the new Registry is more like a database. There's a lot more data being collected and paint history (fields: Refinished? / Current Color / Previous Color / Factory Color ) are only part of it. I'm also asking if the fork is original, and if so, whether it is presumed original or confirmed original (that is, did someone drop the fork and verify the fork's S/N?).

I'm a bit concerned that the submission page needs a field-specific glossary for those who have a Paramount, as it's a bit overwhelming if you're not familiar with all the intricacies. The fields are conditional - so you are not hit with every possible option outside of the year or generation you've chosen - but even then, the information being asked can be pretty extensive.

Case in point, if you choose any Chicago Paramount from 1969 through 1972, you are prompted to indicate whether you have Nervex Professional or Prugnat 62bis headlugs. Standard fare for us - perhaps not so for some owners - but there's another field immediately after, which asks users whether the bike has a Nervex Professional (Feature Cut No. 5) or Vagner PL fork crown. I want to have an AJAX or HTML5/JQuery floating box to the left of the form fields with a short pictorial explanation that floats alongside and changes depending on the form field that's active in a user's window.

I'm a bit partial to the entries being user-submitted at this point, as I'd like to have ownership information (and consent for publication) but I wouldn't say no to having a look at your spreadsheet.

Originally Posted by fleslider View Post
Keep us posted, I dont think my 74 P10 was ever registered/entered. will do when you get it set up!
Will do! Still have a lot to finish though. Having lots of difficulty finding the right way to create filters for the database itself, so users can look at Paramounts with specific details in the list, if they choose.

-Kurt
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Old 01-14-20, 10:09 AM
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Kurt,
Dont know what a static HTML file is but I can make the Chained Revelution information an excell file if that would help. or I could send you the spread sheet with all the early Paramounts by serial number I have found on the internet so far.

Galon
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Old 01-19-20, 11:07 AM
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FYI, there's still a lot to do here, but this is a quick rough-in of the new registry page. Styling isn't complete (the round green boxes within the main green box won't do), and I don't want so much space between registry entries.

Nevertheless, it should give a bit of an idea of where I'm going with this. I intend to have some more specific search fields (such as lug type, specific year, etc) below the main selection fields, so even though the forward facing entries may not specify lugs and the like, one will be able to pair down the list to load these details.

Also, if anyone wants to contribute straight-on headtube, headbadge, or headlug pictures for each era, I could use them for the selection boxes. I'm not sure what will best represent each era (Watsyn and Chicago arguably look the same, and are differentiated much better by lugs, even though there's variance there too), but feel free to contribute if you wish.



Originally Posted by trainman999 View Post
Kurt,
Dont know what a static HTML file is but I can make the Chained Revelution information an excell file if that would help. or I could send you the spread sheet with all the early Paramounts by serial number I have found on the internet so far.

Galon
Galon, that's very kind of you, but I'll probably do a one-by-one on Tam's registry entries - just in case I've missed an outlier that's unique enough to be added in the registry submission fields. If you do have more serials and data though, feel free to send that along. Can't hurt.

-Kurt
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Old 01-19-20, 06:05 PM
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Kurt,
sent it to your headbadge email
Galon
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Old 01-19-20, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Incidentally, I've been meaning to ask if anyone knows what fork crown (crown only - I know the lugs are Nervex Series Legere) Emil Watsyn used on the pre-1958 Paramounts.



-Kurt
Something of a tangent off your query, but can I ask what is going on with the front brake cable routing on the red bike in post #4 ? Part of dual actuation braking? Just wondering.
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Old 01-19-20, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by trainman999 View Post
Kurt,
sent it to your headbadge email
Got it - thanks!

Originally Posted by 73StellaSX76 View Post
Something of a tangent off your query, but can I ask what is going on with the front brake cable routing on the red bike in post #4 ? Part of dual actuation braking? Just wondering.
Pretty sure the shifter and front brake cables on that bike are different, but appear to run in a loop between the cable stop and the caliper.

-Kurt
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Old 01-19-20, 06:49 PM
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Ah, thanks, thought I was seeing things.
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Old 01-20-20, 09:02 AM
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Serial Finish Notes Caps Lugs Drops Year
1 *Blue Schwinn Team - Ray Cass' prototype race bike BE QW TE 1937
1 *Red Schwinn Team - Ray Cass' prototype training bike BE QW TE 1937
L / 7 *Green Probably a prototype. Uses standard headset cups rather than integrated floating race. BE OV TE 1937+
1 Chrome Oldest known Paramount of intro design BE OV TE 1938-
TS004 *White HAWKINS on BB, possibly Tom Schwinn's bike BE OV TE 1938-
A??? Chrome Chester Nelson Jr's 48 Olympic backup bike BE OV TE 1938
?123 *White BE OV TE 1938
A145 *White BE OV TE 1938
A163 *White eBay BE OV TE 1938
A186 Burgundy Tourist model with stainless fenders. BE OV TE 1938
A194 Chrome Repaired with flat angled caps FA OV TE 1938
A198 *Red BE TE 1938
A200 *White Odd headtube uses an external cup for bottom of headset rather than integrated floating race BE OV TE 1938
A221 Maroon Modified with extra brace for brakes (since removed) BE OV TE 1938
A237 Silver eBay, Cyclo derailleur, Webb brakes OV TE 1938
A286 White NOS, never built BE OV TE 1938
A287 *Blue Refinished by Schwinn in 60's with chromed lugs and fork ends. BE OV TE 1938
A325 Team White Team bike raced/owned by Al Crossley BE OV TE 1938
A374 Black Ladies Sports Tourist 1938
A435 BE OV TE 1938
A450 Chrome Mostly original bike. BE OV TE 1938+
A510 White Everything original except tape and tires (menotomy) BE OV TE 1939
A541 White Nice original BE OV TE 1939
A545 Waterford reference 1939
A567 Chrome BE OV TE 1939
A641 Frame with non-original fork (eBay) 1939
A651 *Blue Tourist with fenders BE OV TE 1939
A676 Chrome ex Al Crossley bike with 80% original decals FA OV TE 1939
A702 Red Purchased from Jeff Groman, California bike from Washington State, frame BE OV TE 1939
A736 White Interesting original finish with red head tube and seat tube. BE SQ TE 1939
A815 *Black Touring setup with 3-speed hub ? ? TE 1939+
A685 Orange Chrome lugs BE SQ TE 1939+
A774 *Blue Tourist model with track ends. BE SQ TE 1939+
A816 Tourist model BE SQ TE 1939+
A836 Blue BE SQ TE 1939+
A839 Black eBay, Tourist with fender eyelets BE SQ TE 1939+
A841 *Orange Black lugs BE SQ TE 1939+
A854 *White Full Restoration by Chicago Schwinn in '79 BE SQ TE 1939+
Bxxx *Orange Black lugs BE SQ TE 1940
Creme Mens' Sports Tourist 1940
S1031 Blue BE SQ TE 1940?
Burgundy Later decals BE SQ TE
P41 Bought new in 1947 for $141 TE 1947
P170 Blue Osgear-styled dropouts FA SQ FG 1947+
P178 *White FA SQ FG 1947+
P209 Burgundy Good original-condition bike. FA SQ TE 1947+
P220 Green FA SQ TE 1947+
P224 Burgundy Nervex headlugs only, later decals FA NV TE 1947+
P235 Parts donor frameset FA SQ TE 1947+
P236 Red eBay: Black lugs FA SQ TE 1947+
P244 White eBay, disassembled but complete FA SQ TE 1947+
P252 ?Burgundy Unusual decals FA SQ TE 1947+
P260 *White FA SQ TE 1947+
P270 Black Jack Simes' training bike FA SQ TE 1947+
G88 Red Special build for a short lady 1949
342 *White Usenet. Waterford refinish, chromed fork. TE 1950+
397 * Waterford forums 1951-
403 Men's Sports Tourist 1951
408 ebay 1951
409 Black NOS, Cinelli adjustable stem 1951
421 Yellow FA SQ TE 1951
429 *Red Bought from Ted Ernst 1951
432 Chrome "$25,000 1938 Paramount track (scam)" FA TE 1951
432 Red Duplicate use of serial number FA SQ TE 1951
445 *Blue Originally green re-spray, EBay purchase, Jacksonville, FL area FA TE 1951
446 Red FA SQ TE 1951
453 *White Waterford refinish TE 1951
511 *White French componentry 1951
563 *Red Tourist model with unusual lugs, Waterford restoration BE Unusual 1951
575 White Tourist model with unusual lugs BE Unusual 1951
647 Black Nervex headlugs, Tourist model NV FG 1957
692 Red Nervex headlugs, Tourist model NV FG 1957
713 Blue Touring setup 1957
814 Chrome Nervex lugs, Campagnolo road dropouts FA NV FG 1958
831 *Blue Serial number is on dropout FA SQ TE 1958
871 Blue Serial on steerer, Nervex lugs, "barn-find" FA NV TE 1958
911 Creme Men's Sports Touring P12 FG 1958
915 Black Nervex lugs, Campagnolo road dropouts FA NV FG 1958
937 Primered Nervex Pro lugs, Campagnolo road dropouts FA NV FG 1959
949 Waterford reference 1959
987 Nervex Pro lugs TE 1959
A20 Serial number is on dropout TE 1959
C99 Red NV FG 1959
H71 *Black NV FG 1961
N27 Bought new in 1963. See forum for more info. TE 1963
B803 Brown FG 1968

Seat stay caps: BE - Ball ends, FA - Flat angled
Front of head lugs: OV - Ovalized, SQ - Squared, NV - Nervex, DW - Double Window, QW - Quad Window
Rear dropouts: TE - Track ends, FG - Forward facing geared

Asterisk (*) indicates a repaint
Years are approximate and under continuous refinement
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Old 01-23-20, 08:38 PM
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Really appreciate it. Will have to get this all into a .CSV.

Incidentally, I had to go a few steps back and re-create some of the Registry fields from Wordpress custom fields into Wordpress custom post taxonomy. If you've tinkered with Wordpress before, you might know what I'm talking about, but if not, the end result is that I have to re-create lists of the data used to create these dropdowns. It's a pain, but worth it in the end.

One also learns some pretty interesting useless trivia too - since 1938, the Paramount (both road and MTB) have had at least 54 unique models, and 92 paint options (or 93 if you count the custom paint program separately for the road and MTB series for their respective years).

-Kurt
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Old 01-23-20, 08:45 PM
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If you need a grep sed awk junkie, give a holler
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Old 01-23-20, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by francophile View Post
If you need a grep sed awk junkie, give a holler
Right now, it's just copy/pasting all the data out of the Gravity Forms fields I already created, stuffing them into Excel, removing the duplicates, and re-importing them from the CSV file as values to populate the Paramount Registry's custom post type taxonomy.

Currently, I have to re-populate the following fields: Color, model, era, size, lugs, fork, fork originality, fork crown, drivetrain, brakeset, stay end finishing. Colors, model, and eras are done, though there's a lot of data missing from the Wastyn era, and some of these fields don't apply to the later Waterford-era models.

I'll keep your skills in mind. Have you ever fiddled with PHP, by chance? Could use someone to help code up the fields used to show/hide the registry results. I'm also a wee bit concerned that the AJAX function I'm running won't limit the dropdowns based on the available year range. I'm not running a plugin for this, but a modded version of this: https://rudrastyh.com/wordpress/ajax-post-filters.html

-Kurt
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Old 02-13-20, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by St33lWh33ls View Post
Serial Finish Notes Caps Lugs Drops Year
Question, St33lWh33ls - how did you create that list? Trying to figure out if there's an easy way to get it comma separated or copy/pasted into Excel while retaining the column data - curious if the forum ate the formatting.

-Kurt
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Old 02-13-20, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Question, St33lWh33ls - how did you create that list? Trying to figure out if there's an easy way to get it comma separated or copy/pasted into Excel while retaining the column data - curious if the forum ate the formatting.

-Kurt
Hey Kurt, I copied and pasted the pages into a Word doc which gave me the data in tables. If I remember correctly, saving the site would just give you gibberish in the tables because of the asp and db backend. I copied and pasted into notepad to get rid of the tables and hidden characters, that was all I needed for my purposes. I have Excel and the Word doc so I can probably convert if you like.

You can also create a CSV file by copying the info above and paste it into NotePad, add commas where needed and be sure to add some text for missing field info.

Had no luck contacting the site owner via the domain contact info, so I have not used the data on my website. At this point I think it’s pretty unlikely chainedrevolution.com will rise again.

Ken

Last edited by St33lWh33ls; 02-13-20 at 08:50 AM. Reason: Added info
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Old 02-13-20, 12:47 PM
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Kurt, Here’s an example of what needs to be done to convert, I just took the first two lines. Commas denote columns, Newline denotes rows, copy and paste into Notepad and save the file as yourfilename.csv. Open in Excel you should have what you need.

Serial,Finish,Notes,Caps,Lugs,Drops,Year

1,*Blue,Schwinn Team - Ray Cass' prototype race bike,BE,QW,TE,1937
1,*Red,Schwinn Team - Ray Cass' prototype training bike,BE,QW,TE,1937


Also wanted to note if you don’t have info for a particular column you can use two commas and it will leave that cell blank, example below.


1,*Red,Schwinn Team - Ray Cass' prototype training bike,,QW,TE,1937

Last edited by St33lWh33ls; 02-13-20 at 01:12 PM. Reason: More info
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