1972 Paramount tandem update
12-31-19, 01:55 PM
#1
Full Member
Thread Starter
1972 Paramount tandem update
I posted on this previously here: 1972 Paramount Tandem with some interesting features but here are pictures of the near final version. Tried replacing the original 54-48-28 triple chainring with a 50-40-35 combination at first, but found shifting more trouble than it was worth, so went to 48-35 double chainring which seems to give the appropriate range for this bike. Still working on the campy pedals but they may or may not go back on.
12-31-19, 02:19 PM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 12,497
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 245 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3934 Post(s)
Liked 4,890 Times
in
2,864 Posts
H**Y CRAP MAN!, Fantastic, well done. 
Likes For merziac:
12-31-19, 03:25 PM
#3
Senior Member
One of my '76-77 Ohio State college dorm mates and his girlfriend rode a Paramount tandem on occasion. Not sure what year the bike was... Otherwise, Jim rode his racing (on the road) or track (at TTs/Crits) Paramounts... I can't remember what she rode when they rode solo... Wasn't a Schwinn... I don't think it was Italian. I'm thinking it was a Peugeot... I thought I was doing good with my Fuji S-10S back then, LOL!
12-31-19, 04:14 PM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,511
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2816 Post(s)
Liked 1,908 Times
in
1,388 Posts
The bike is quite handsome. Wonder if that is the correct gender.
I will give my Paramount one more go, will go to Super Champ gentleman rims, tie and soldier the spokes, good tires.(well as good as 27" as I can find.)
Not interested in moving the canti posts.
My example really "shudders" laterally until you get moving.
It is a mens/mixtie also but a slightly smaller size.
Other tandems do not seem so afflicted.
I will give my Paramount one more go, will go to Super Champ gentleman rims, tie and soldier the spokes, good tires.(well as good as 27" as I can find.)
Not interested in moving the canti posts.
My example really "shudders" laterally until you get moving.
It is a mens/mixtie also but a slightly smaller size.
Other tandems do not seem so afflicted.
12-31-19, 05:10 PM
#5
blahblahblah chrome moly
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,454
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 857 Post(s)
Liked 1,714 Times
in
753 Posts
Apologies if you tried it already and it's a no-go.
01-01-20, 06:04 AM
#6
Full Member
Thread Starter
Have you tried 700c wheels? Often it works even though the posts were intended for 27" You might have to put some other brake (not Mafac), something with some up/down adjustability. Or just try Mafac Criterium, the shorter-armed version of the Tandem canti -- their arms from the pivot up to the pad attachment point are 2 mm shorter than Tandem, which might be enough to make the post height work on 700c rims. Criterium brakes can still be plenty strong, especially with modern rubber. And then a whole world of better tire choices opens up. Plus you have more room to use fatter tires, especially nice on a tandem.
Apologies if you tried it already and it's a no-go.
Apologies if you tried it already and it's a no-go.
01-01-20, 09:09 AM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,511
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2816 Post(s)
Liked 1,908 Times
in
1,388 Posts
Have you tried 700c wheels? Often it works even though the posts were intended for 27" You might have to put some other brake (not Mafac), something with some up/down adjustability. Or just try Mafac Criterium, the shorter-armed version of the Tandem canti -- their arms from the pivot up to the pad attachment point are 2 mm shorter than Tandem, which might be enough to make the post height work on 700c rims. Criterium brakes can still be plenty strong, especially with modern rubber. And then a whole world of better tire choices opens up. Plus you have more room to use fatter tires, especially nice on a tandem.
Apologies if you tried it already and it's a no-go.
Apologies if you tried it already and it's a no-go.
actually I am not liking the close proximity of the canti posts to the 27“ rims!
i think 4 mm closer would be a disaster.
maybe the solution is a disc fork, the bike is underbraked
01-01-20, 03:04 PM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 775
Bikes: 1903 24 spd Sunbeam, 1927 Humber, 3 1930 Raleighs, 2 1940s Sunbeams, 2 1940s Raleighs, Rudge, 1950s Robin Hood, 1958 Claud Butler, 2 1973 Colnago Supers, Eddie Merckx, 2 1980 Holdsworth, EG Bates funny TT bike, another 6 or so 1990s bikes
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked 279 Times
in
151 Posts
Just noticed - are those front pads suitable for cantilever brakes? Is there enough clearance between rim and fork for a more conventional, much longer brake pad.
Lovely bike BTW.
Last edited by Johno59; 01-01-20 at 03:14 PM.
01-01-20, 03:23 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,511
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2816 Post(s)
Liked 1,908 Times
in
1,388 Posts
Johno59- I think you have it wrong- from my experience and concurred from Sheldonbrown:
With a brake set up for maximum mechanical advantage, the shorter transverse cable has a shallower yoke angle. This may make it difficult or impossible to unhook the transverse cable for wheel removal. For some riders, it may be a worthwhile trade-off to give up some braking power for the sake of easier wheel removal. From the pages of:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html
This is true for Mafac Racer brakes too. I bought a bike with them, and was unimpressed from the power (I did have a bike with them 40+ years ago)
I shortened the straddle wire, presto, much more power.
I did a number of things to improve the tandem's stopping power. Short of going to Nonkon cable housing, and got marginal improvement, but not what I would call safe.
This did make me think of sourcing a pre made Disc fork, looks possible, I have to double check some dimensions.
With a brake set up for maximum mechanical advantage, the shorter transverse cable has a shallower yoke angle. This may make it difficult or impossible to unhook the transverse cable for wheel removal. For some riders, it may be a worthwhile trade-off to give up some braking power for the sake of easier wheel removal. From the pages of:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html
This is true for Mafac Racer brakes too. I bought a bike with them, and was unimpressed from the power (I did have a bike with them 40+ years ago)
I shortened the straddle wire, presto, much more power.
I did a number of things to improve the tandem's stopping power. Short of going to Nonkon cable housing, and got marginal improvement, but not what I would call safe.
This did make me think of sourcing a pre made Disc fork, looks possible, I have to double check some dimensions.
01-01-20, 11:18 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 775
Bikes: 1903 24 spd Sunbeam, 1927 Humber, 3 1930 Raleighs, 2 1940s Sunbeams, 2 1940s Raleighs, Rudge, 1950s Robin Hood, 1958 Claud Butler, 2 1973 Colnago Supers, Eddie Merckx, 2 1980 Holdsworth, EG Bates funny TT bike, another 6 or so 1990s bikes
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked 279 Times
in
151 Posts
I stand corrected
Johno59- I think you have it wrong- from my experience and concurred from Sheldonbrown:
With a brake set up for maximum mechanical advantage, the shorter transverse cable has a shallower yoke angle. This may make it difficult or impossible to unhook the transverse cable for wheel removal. For some riders, it may be a worthwhile trade-off to give up some braking power for the sake of easier wheel removal. From the pages of:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html
This is true for Mafac Racer brakes too. I bought a bike with them, and was unimpressed from the power (I did have a bike with them 40+ years ago)
I shortened the straddle wire, presto, much more power.
I did a number of things to improve the tandem's stopping power. Short of going to Nonkon cable housing, and got marginal improvement, but not what I would call safe.
This did make me think of sourcing a pre made Disc fork, looks possible, I have to double check some dimensions.
With a brake set up for maximum mechanical advantage, the shorter transverse cable has a shallower yoke angle. This may make it difficult or impossible to unhook the transverse cable for wheel removal. For some riders, it may be a worthwhile trade-off to give up some braking power for the sake of easier wheel removal. From the pages of:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html
This is true for Mafac Racer brakes too. I bought a bike with them, and was unimpressed from the power (I did have a bike with them 40+ years ago)
I shortened the straddle wire, presto, much more power.
I did a number of things to improve the tandem's stopping power. Short of going to Nonkon cable housing, and got marginal improvement, but not what I would call safe.
This did make me think of sourcing a pre made Disc fork, looks possible, I have to double check some dimensions.
A disc on the front would place a lot of force on the spokes.
Note the really short bridge wire
Last edited by Johno59; 01-02-20 at 12:47 AM.
01-02-20, 02:37 AM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 775
Bikes: 1903 24 spd Sunbeam, 1927 Humber, 3 1930 Raleighs, 2 1940s Sunbeams, 2 1940s Raleighs, Rudge, 1950s Robin Hood, 1958 Claud Butler, 2 1973 Colnago Supers, Eddie Merckx, 2 1980 Holdsworth, EG Bates funny TT bike, another 6 or so 1990s bikes
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked 279 Times
in
151 Posts
Drum brakes for old school tandem stopping boost.
Have you considered drum brakes for extra stopping power. The advantage is drum brakes fit a standard fork/27 inch wheel, unlike a disc brake that will require a completely different front end.
This tandem has 4 X Resilion cantilever brakes(each nearly 3 inches long) and drum brakes front and rear.
Last edited by Johno59; 01-02-20 at 03:41 AM.
01-02-20, 05:58 AM
#12
Full Member
Thread Starter
Have you considered drum brakes for extra stopping power. The advantage is drum brakes fit a standard fork/27 inch wheel, unlike a disc brake that will require a completely different front end.
This tandem has 4 X Resilion cantilever brakes(each nearly 3 inches long) and drum brakes front and rear.
01-02-20, 08:51 AM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 775
Bikes: 1903 24 spd Sunbeam, 1927 Humber, 3 1930 Raleighs, 2 1940s Sunbeams, 2 1940s Raleighs, Rudge, 1950s Robin Hood, 1958 Claud Butler, 2 1973 Colnago Supers, Eddie Merckx, 2 1980 Holdsworth, EG Bates funny TT bike, another 6 or so 1990s bikes
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked 279 Times
in
151 Posts
1930s tandems
There are quite a few vintage (1930s) tandems on eBay for under 500 USD s. They only have standard drum brakes front and rear and are thus dangerous but cheap. However many folks BITD added Resilion cantilever brakes so no problems stopping. Some actually have both going cheap ,as today most folks know nothing about maintaining Resilion brakes.
Last edited by Johno59; 01-02-20 at 09:02 AM.
01-02-20, 09:41 AM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posts: 1,078
Bikes: 1980's Spectrum 10 sp Campagnolo Centaur, 1990 Eddy Merckx 10 sp Campagnolo Centaur, Bushnell Tandem, Co-Motion Speedster Tandem
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Liked 98 Times
in
61 Posts
Beautiful bike, that rear brake cable takes an amazing journey.
01-02-20, 11:22 AM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 775
Bikes: 1903 24 spd Sunbeam, 1927 Humber, 3 1930 Raleighs, 2 1940s Sunbeams, 2 1940s Raleighs, Rudge, 1950s Robin Hood, 1958 Claud Butler, 2 1973 Colnago Supers, Eddie Merckx, 2 1980 Holdsworth, EG Bates funny TT bike, another 6 or so 1990s bikes
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked 279 Times
in
151 Posts
1930s Herc
This is a 1930s Hercules tandem. Stock it was sold with just twin drum brakes. The owner added Resilion cantilever and there you go. 400 USD
Last edited by Johno59; 01-02-20 at 11:27 AM.
01-02-20, 05:02 PM
#17
Full Member
Thread Starter
01-03-20, 04:10 AM
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 775
Bikes: 1903 24 spd Sunbeam, 1927 Humber, 3 1930 Raleighs, 2 1940s Sunbeams, 2 1940s Raleighs, Rudge, 1950s Robin Hood, 1958 Claud Butler, 2 1973 Colnago Supers, Eddie Merckx, 2 1980 Holdsworth, EG Bates funny TT bike, another 6 or so 1990s bikes
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked 279 Times
in
151 Posts
What can you say!
07-10-22, 09:00 AM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,511
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2816 Post(s)
Liked 1,908 Times
in
1,388 Posts
Have you tried 700c wheels? Often it works even though the posts were intended for 27" You might have to put some other brake (not Mafac), something with some up/down adjustability. Or just try Mafac Criterium, the shorter-armed version of the Tandem canti -- their arms from the pivot up to the pad attachment point are 2 mm shorter than Tandem, which might be enough to make the post height work on 700c rims. Criterium brakes can still be plenty strong, especially with modern rubber. And then a whole world of better tire choices opens up. Plus you have more room to use fatter tires, especially nice on a tandem.
Apologies if you tried it already and it's a no-go.
Apologies if you tried it already and it's a no-go.
the arc the caliper elements swing at the rim is way too down and inboard for my liking, no way I could get a 4mm smaller radius rim to work.
