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First time gluing up tubular. Need a little advice

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First time gluing up tubular. Need a little advice

Old 01-05-20, 02:50 PM
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6Speed
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First time gluing up tubular. Need a little advice

Hi, I've watched probably 10 youtube videos, but still feel like I am going to mess up this process.

I noticed in most of the youtube videos the people installing the tires, after stretching and gluing, had them already pumped up to a low psi to do the final sticking to the rim. When I try this the tire rolls outward (Vittoria Rally), so I am unsure how to install on rim with tire pumped up to low pressure. Is it ok to install with the tire flat, and then with a quickness, inflate once it is on the rim?

Also, if the tire gives me trouble, if it is shrunken down again in the time I've had it off the wheel, is it ok to heat the tire up in the sun, or in a hot car, to get it a little more stretchy? Could have sworn I read somewhere someone recommended warming it up, but I can't find that post again, and I wasn't sure how the heat might affect the glue that's applied to the backside of tub. I'm not thinking to heat it up to 200 degrees. Just get it warm. My garage where I'm doing this is a tad chilly so I'm thinking the tires will have some shrinkage like George Costanza.
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Old 01-05-20, 03:36 PM
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1. Yeah, flat's fine. Then just a LITTLE air when you've got it on but are getting it centered. THEN pump it up to max and check again. Then keep it at max for a couple days to cure... cold will take longer here too.
2. Yeah, warm it up if you think it'll help. But it should be good and stretched also.
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Old 01-05-20, 03:39 PM
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I generally apply glue to both tire and rim, let dry, apply a small amount to rim only, mount uninflated tire, inflate slightly and adjust straightness of tire on rim. Then inflate fully and leave overnight.
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Old 01-05-20, 03:47 PM
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There is a totally tubular thread that would probably be good to review.

mounting the tire dry to stretch it, or verify how much stretching needs to happen is smart. after it is on the rim, Pump up to 60-70 psi, check that it seats on the rim well.
Some tubulars, especially inexpensive ones need to accept a shape for a while.
Stretching is covered in the thread.
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Old 01-05-20, 03:48 PM
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Install with no air. Stretch the tire as you install it keeping pulling pressure as you go. Practice this before gluing.
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Old 01-05-20, 08:16 PM
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Tape it.
Done.
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Old 01-06-20, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Tape it.
Done.
Unless---

---you are of the school which says; "Glue it and tape it!"
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Old 01-06-20, 07:34 AM
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I just installed a pair of Rallys. They will turn a bit inside out when inflated off the rim which is fine. It will turn right side in as you push the tire onto the rim with your thumbs. While installing, you want some air to keep them round -- but not too much which makes them harder to stretch as you put them on -- they should be pretty squishy between thumb and fore finger.
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Old 01-06-20, 10:45 AM
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On purpose, I went through the learning process of gluing tubular tires to the rims. Pooey-Stinko but I did get better with practice. Until...

I tried tape. Easy-peasy. I will not go back to glue.
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Old 01-06-20, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Tape it.
Done.
Originally Posted by randyjawa View Post
On purpose, I went through the learning process of gluing tubular tires to the rims. Pooey-Stinko but I did get better with practice. Until...

I tried tape. Easy-peasy. I will not go back to glue.
, I do this too.
Best, Ben
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Old 01-06-20, 11:53 AM
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I found this to be the most helpful on my first (and so far only ) glue and install

also, I found that gluing is really not that big a deal. I used by finger (gloved) to spread the glue on the rim and flux brush to put the glue on the tires. Inflate the tires a bit for gluing, deflate for install

have fun, it was

Tubular Tire Mounting Cement Gluing Adhesion by Yellow Jersey; Thoughts on a Front Wheel
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Old 01-06-20, 11:58 AM
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What they said. Don't over think it. Just do it.
Tying a shoe is difficult the first time too. It isn't as complicated either.
I start with the valve in place first and work my way around on both sides of the valve until I am at the joint of the rim. I also leave unglued section between the last two spoke holes. Easier to remove the tire when flat. You may hear a noise but it will go away over time.
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Old 01-06-20, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Tape it.
Done.
Or just pay someone else to do it.
OP wants to learn the skill. There's a satisfaction in that. C&V is the place where people recognize such craftsmanship.

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Old 01-06-20, 12:27 PM
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I haven't ridden a tubular in 20 years. But if I do go back (and it's more like when) I will go back to the system I used for 25 years. If you do not race and do not ride in super hot places (that includes most of us), doing very secure glue jobs that allow fast on-the-road changes is easy. Lots of the glue. Tubasti, that French white stuff that doesn't set up hard. Don't clean rims between tires. Let the stuff build up. I always considered clean rims (using Tubasti, Clement, Vittoria ..., didn't matter) the most dangerous. After a few tire changes and good buildup I trusted them far more.

With a good buildup of Tubasti, on-the-road changes done with nothing are quite secure in a couple of miles though I wouldn't corner hard until I took off the road spare and put a new or good repaired tire back on. But when I went to pull off the spare, they were always quite secure. Not criterium corner secure but not going anywhere on a lesser corner. And all I did on those changes was pull off the flatted tire, put on the spare (usually an older one, so stretched out and easy to put on), centered the tire, pumped up and road, carefully at first. If this change was being done in a shady part of town, the steps of centering and riding carefully might get skipped. (I've done it inebriated to the same effect. I didn't own a car. That bike did and saw everything. I owned nothing but tubulars.)

My glue procedure was to apply the glue rather thickly over the old buildup (at least two coats on clean rims, letting the first sit for at least 24 hours), I'd use a piece of stiff paper for the smoothing to keep my fingers clean. I don't think I ever put glue on the tires. Mounted the tires after about 45 minutes when the stuff was no longer liquid but plenty sticky. Got the tire nice and straight. Pumped tires to a little less than full ride pressure and rode the bike around the block really gently. Put the bike away for a day, Topped off and rode.

It's really useful to keep old glued rims and wheels around. Stretching a new tire onto a previously glued rim is quite a bit easier that a new, clean slippery one. If pulling the tire off pulled glue off the rim in places, I would apply a lot of glue to those "voids" and let the rim sit 24 hours before going on.

Ben
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Old 01-06-20, 12:38 PM
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Just like clinchers, there's inconsistent fittings in tubulars and of course should pre-fit / stretch and inflate beforehand.

Don't use forced or high heat. Room temp helps so if your garage is too chilly, mounting them in warmer room should suffice. For final mounting, tubular should be 100% deflated.

Tape or glue. If gluing, use sparingly and spread evenly using a disposable brush (multi pack cost $2-3). I usually apply two light coats on the rim and one on the tire. Key word 'sparingly'. Though do fully cover the mating surfaces (to rim edge) except for the valve core area. Let it set-up and get tacky, usually in 15-20 minutes.

I find the easiest is having the assembly in front of me, vertical and bending over. Start with valve on top, the majority easily mounts except for maybe the remaining foot in length near the floor. Firmly secure one side by hand, work the other portion in small increments by gripping and pushing with remaining hand and thumb. Keep your fingers off the now tacky base tape and rim.

Inflate slightly and mount assembly on the bike. Lift tubular incrementally off the tacky rim and work on centering. Finally, inflate to desired pressure.


Not complicated, not messy and never had one roll off.

Last edited by crank_addict; 01-06-20 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 01-06-20, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Tubasti, that French white stuff that doesn't set up hard. Don't clean rims between tires. Let the stuff build up. I always considered clean rims (using Tubasti, Clement, Vittoria ..., didn't matter) the most dangerous. After a few tire changes and good buildup I trusted them far more.
FYI I heard somewhere that while Tubasti is still around, they changed it recently, and It's now a modern clear contact cement type adhesive, like everyone else.

The only time I've ever rolled a tire it was with Tubasti, and after that I never used it again. That was with new clean rims, which was likely the issue, as you imply. I had followed the directions closely, but it wasn't enough. In retrospect, clearly I should have used additional coats beyond what was called for, and let them cure ahead of time, to get more of a base built up. I was very young and new to tubulars at the time, which didn't help either.
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Old 01-06-20, 11:40 PM
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Be careful that the valve is straight. Sucks to get the tub good and then see the stem crooked i.e. not pointing at the hub.
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Old 01-07-20, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
Or just pay someone else to do it.
OP wants to learn the skill. There's a satisfaction in that. C&V is the place where people recognize such craftsmanship.

Bulloney

I saw no evidence that he was aware of taping, or preferred gluing, just that he wanted tips on gluing.

If he wants to cleanly, conveniently and easily mount a tubular tire to a tubular rim, tape is it. No tools, no brushes, no protective equipment, and no ego needed.

If he wants to play with glue and tires and tacky tacky and tell himself there's some kind of Renaissance Zen in the process, then glue is his honeysuckle. It's not craftsmanship; it's attention to detail on a tedious, time-consuming and potentially messy activity that a 6th grader can be taught to do properly, to which, for some reason, we attach some sort of mystical value, as if we are somehow superior beings for learning. If it was an important adhesion process, 3M would have looked into it.

It's gluing. Somewhere around 4th grade, we mastered it and moved on.
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Old 01-07-20, 05:02 AM
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Old 01-07-20, 06:41 AM
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I only have two bikes with tubulars, both are C&V. I won't use tubulars now because there aren't any light rims. I raced on GEL280s and GL330s, not even carbon tubular rims are that light anymore; that include carbon tubulars for disc brakes. If there were some light (and I mean less that 400 grams, pref closer to 350g) I'd ride tubies on a regular basis. But with a number of clincher rims that are lighter than a lot of current tubular rims I'm not for the extra work. If I never have to pull the base tape, cut stitching, patch a tube, re-sew, re-tape the base tape and re-glue/tape it'll be too soon.
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Old 01-07-20, 08:59 AM
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Having tubulars on my 77 Colnago and 86 Trek 760 it was my entry into glue-on sewups. It is not difficult, just messy. Do leave a 2 or 3 spoke width of no glue just opposite the valve stem to facilitate easier roadside removal should it be necessary.
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Old 01-07-20, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Bulloney

I saw no evidence that he was aware of taping, or preferred gluing, just that he wanted tips on gluing.

If he wants to cleanly, conveniently and easily mount a tubular tire to a tubular rim, tape is it. No tools, no brushes, no protective equipment, and no ego needed.

If he wants to play with glue and tires and tacky tacky and tell himself there's some kind of Renaissance Zen in the process, then glue is his honeysuckle. It's not craftsmanship; it's attention to detail on a tedious, time-consuming and potentially messy activity that a 6th grader can be taught to do properly, to which, for some reason, we attach some sort of mystical value, as if we are somehow superior beings for learning. If it was an important adhesion process, 3M would have looked into it.

It's gluing. Somewhere around 4th grade, we mastered it and moved on.
Dude. Can you sniff tape?
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Old 01-07-20, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by due ruote View Post
Dude. Can you sniff tape?
You definitely have a point there.
What we SHOULD have seen in the movie Airport is: "I picked a bad day to give up gluing tubulars."

The full value of gluing things that can be much more easily taped is the "leave me alone, I'm doing something" opportunity.

The full value of riding tubulars, for me, is looking down at a wheel that has a tire glued on. Just seems right. It's part of the wheel.
That and the street cred you can still get... "Oh, are those tubulars?" The very fit hipsters on the $8000 bike seem to like them, too.

Besides, without old tubulars, I can't nag crank_addict about his tires.
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Old 01-07-20, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 6Speed View Post
I noticed in most of the youtube videos the people installing the tires, after stretching and gluing, had them already pumped up to a low psi to do the final sticking to the rim. When I try this the tire rolls outward (Vittoria Rally), so I am unsure how to install on rim with tire pumped up to low pressure. Is it ok to install with the tire flat, and then with a quickness, inflate once it is on the rim?
First, when you put them on dry to stretch, pump them to moderate to full pressure. Let them sit and relax.

When ready to glue, yes it is 100% OK to install fully flat. In fact I recommend that you install them fully empty. I've glued on hundreds of tubulars, and never had any air in them when doing this, not have I ever seen anyone else do it with air. That would make it pretty difficult IMO. Maybe with tape it's possible, just. I dunno, but I don't see what advantage there could be to have a little air inside. That only makes sense for clincher tubes.
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Old 01-07-20, 05:50 PM
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My strong recommendation is to keep the Rally tires for spares and start your venture into tubulars on tubulars with removable valve cores. This will allow you to apply sealant on the road in case of a flat. The sealant (I mainly use Stan's sealant) will fix most puncture flats on the road, saving you from having to use a spare, then corner carefully the rest of the ride and repair/re-glue the tubular once home. Most of my bikes are equipped with tubulars or ready for an alternate tubular wheelset on standby. The emergence of sealants is a godsend for regular tubular users.
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