Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Klein Built Cannondale??

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Klein Built Cannondale??

Old 01-16-20, 08:24 AM
  #1  
Ronno6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Ronno6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Deep South
Posts: 1,295

Bikes: Cannondale SR's and ST's from the '80's

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 3 Posts
Klein Built Cannondale??

Anybody seen this??
https://www.ebay.com/itm/283388397210

Klein built a "prototype" for Cannondale?
I can't believe it for a second..............Gary Klein sued Cannondale over patent infringement.
So, why would he build them a "prototype?"

I have inquired as to a serial # on this bike.
ST frames/bikes emerged in 1983,
The SR geometry frames didn't hit the market til '85

I own an '85 with the same paint and decals as the one in the auction.

We'll see.........
Ronno6 is offline  
Old 01-16-20, 08:32 AM
  #2  
hazetguy 
Custom User Title
 
hazetguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: asheville
Posts: 1,176

Bikes: are filling up my basement.

Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 768 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 201 Times in 145 Posts
holy damage and sloppy repairs Batman!
hazetguy is offline  
Likes For hazetguy:
Old 01-16-20, 08:34 AM
  #3  
Mr. 66
Senior Member
 
Mr. 66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 984
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 277 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 57 Times in 45 Posts
Death ride, no thanks.
Mr. 66 is offline  
Old 01-16-20, 08:35 AM
  #4  
Ronno6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Ronno6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Deep South
Posts: 1,295

Bikes: Cannondale SR's and ST's from the '80's

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by hazetguy View Post
holy damage and sloppy repairs Batman!
The owner could have just sent it back to Klein for repair on such an historic piece...........
Ronno6 is offline  
Old 01-16-20, 08:48 AM
  #5  
OldsCOOL
Senior Member
 
OldsCOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: northern michigan
Posts: 12,720

Bikes: '77 Colnago Super, '76 Fuji The Finest, '88 Cannondale Criterium, '86 Trek 760, '87 Miyata 712

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 508 Post(s)
Liked 170 Times in 101 Posts
The bar tape...

OldsCOOL is offline  
Old 01-16-20, 10:02 AM
  #6  
2old
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: socal
Posts: 1,814
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 281 Post(s)
Liked 49 Times in 39 Posts
Check their prices; everything is priced as if it were extremely desirable. Holy usury, Batman!
2old is offline  
Likes For 2old:
Old 01-16-20, 10:18 AM
  #7  
jadocs
Senior Member
 
jadocs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 1,226

Bikes: Litespeed T2 Disc, Fondirest P4 Carbon, Fuji Cross 2.0, Specialized Fatboy

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 510 Post(s)
Liked 188 Times in 135 Posts
Hard Pass
jadocs is offline  
Old 01-16-20, 10:32 AM
  #8  
mgopack42 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Central Valley, CA
Posts: 406

Bikes: 2011 Pinarello FP Quatro, 1994 Specialized Allez, cheap Scattante cross bike, Mid 80's Ciocc, 1985 Masi 3V..

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked 35 Times in 30 Posts
I think you meant to post in the Wacky World of Craigslist and EBay ads thread!
mgopack42 is offline  
Old 01-16-20, 10:53 AM
  #9  
DorkDisk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Kips Bay, NY
Posts: 1,132
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 170 Post(s)
Liked 85 Times in 55 Posts
Originally Posted by Ronno6 View Post
Anybody seen this??
https://www.ebay.com/itm/283388397210

Klein built a "prototype" for Cannondale?
I can't believe it for a second..............Gary Klein sued Cannondale over patent infringement.
So, why would he build them a "prototype?"

I have inquired as to a serial # on this bike.
ST frames/bikes emerged in 1983,
The SR geometry frames didn't hit the market til '85

I own an '85 with the same paint and decals as the one in the auction.

We'll see.........
Yeah, sounds like misinformation. This would be quite a historic revelation, if true. I don't ever recall hearing anything close to this BITD.

No model number=warranty frame; silver fork=crash damage. It doesn't look much like a prototype, but a production item.
DorkDisk is offline  
Old 01-16-20, 11:10 AM
  #10  
stardognine
Senior Member
 
stardognine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Arid Arizona, for now.
Posts: 2,173

Bikes: 1995 Cannondale Killer V

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 529 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 109 Times in 94 Posts
Man, those seat stays are just scary! Doesn't ebay have rules about selling unsafe items. I never mess with ebay, so not familiar. 🤔
stardognine is offline  
Old 01-16-20, 11:14 AM
  #11  
dedhed
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 5,562

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 860 Post(s)
Liked 217 Times in 165 Posts
Originally Posted by 2old View Post
Check their prices; everything is priced as if it were extremely desirable. Holy usury, Batman!
Kind of like BBC
https://budgetbicyclectr.com/vintage...-for-sale.html
dedhed is offline  
Old 01-16-20, 11:19 AM
  #12  
79pmooney
A Roadie Forever
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 7,453

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 97 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1879 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 256 Times in 188 Posts
I wonder if this is indeed a Klein built bike intended either as one of bikes Klein would build for Cannondale (like Giant does now for the rest of the world) or to interest Cannondale in paying for the rights to the patents. Perhaps Cannondale, after taking a few spins on that bike, decided to just make the bikes and turn their back on Klein.

That bike sure looks like a Klein of the time. I never owned one but I regularly stopped in at Open Air Cycling in Boston when I was back east to see my folks. They carried Kleins from the late '70s until they closed. I regularly saw the newest Kleins for years before I ever saw or heard of a Cannondale.

Fun bit: I took a spin on a Klein in 1976, Gary Klein showed up at an NEBC Thursday night club race and encouraged us all to do so. I knew immediately that bike was going to change the cycling world. When Cannondale claimed their bike was something new 5-6 years later, I just shook my head. "Yes, but it wasn't your idea."

Edit: as I recall, not all Kleins had matching paint on their forks. PRobably to emphasis the frame was of a different material. (Proceeding the carbon forks on aluminum and steel bikes by a decade or so.) That fork doesn't strike my memory as being either "wrong" or a replacement.

Ben

Last edited by 79pmooney; 01-16-20 at 11:23 AM.
79pmooney is offline  
Old 01-16-20, 11:28 AM
  #13  
xiaoman1 
Senior Member
 
xiaoman1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Weird Coast City of the Angeles
Posts: 2,532

Bikes: Paramounts, PX-10s, Mondias, Motobecane Grand Record, Specialized Allez Carbon, and Nishiki Tri-A

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 471 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 150 Times in 111 Posts
Originally Posted by stardognine View Post
Man, those seat stays are just scary! Doesn't ebay have rules about selling unsafe items. I never mess with ebay, so not familiar. 🤔
Racing geometry..."really" shortened wheel-base at the RS rather than curving the ST., sweet!
Ben
xiaoman1 is online now  
Old 01-16-20, 11:37 AM
  #14  
3alarmer
******
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 17,841

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 249 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16171 Post(s)
Liked 505 Times in 414 Posts
.
...I live not too far from Lincoln, CA, and I never heard of this guy before. There are a lot of pretty nice Cannondale's locally at bargain prices these days, so it's difficult to understand why anyone would bother to attempt to sell this one given its precarious rear end arrangements. Sorry, but I cannot contribute anything of value on whether it was made by Klein.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 01-16-20, 11:51 AM
  #15  
verktyg
verktyg
 
verktyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,170

Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1990 Bianchi Mondiale, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA Team Pro, 1973 Holdsworth

Mentioned: 155 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 625 Post(s)
Liked 201 Times in 143 Posts
Editorial Comment On Sellers

Can you say BULL PUCKY?

Some eBay sellers who don't know, or weren't there, frequently guess or "embroider" information in their listings!

A lot of them are "pickers", yard sailors or pawn shops. Folks figuring on making a fast buck flipping stuff. This seller's handle is "California Bike Pickers" that should tell you a lot....

We sold Klein frames back in the mid 70's and had some of the first ones to hit the market so we knew a lot of the developmental history. Cannodale frames were contemporaries of Klein and maybe came a little later.

The one thing that I remember was that the Klein frames were BRUTALLY STIFF! Some of the early ones had boron carbide??? fibers epoxied to the bottom bracket area to increase stiffness.

It's been almost 45 years and I never cared much for the oversized aluminum frames so I might be wrong about this but the weld beads on the early Kleins were not smoothed so they looked crude.

I'm always suspicious of resprays on eBay and CL. Paint can hide a multitude of sins.

With the exception of work done by recognized restorers like Cycleart, Brian Bayless and so on, bikes that have been repainted always send up a red flag for me if I can't inspect them in person.

Just like frames and bikes that don't have the original fork! WHY?

What happened to the fork that resulted in replacement?

BTW, I think that the replacement fork is from a Vitus frame???

The welding on the seat stays looks really cobby like it was done by an amateur!

Caveat emptor!



verktyg

ADDENDUM:

Took a close look at the frame in question... It appears that someone put indentations into the chain stays for crank arm clearance rather than install a wider BB spindle. Prime area for failure, especially in aluminum!

Fine example of the work of a ham fisted hammer mechanic!


.

Last edited by verktyg; 01-16-20 at 12:11 PM.
verktyg is online now  
Likes For verktyg:
Old 01-16-20, 12:03 PM
  #16  
3alarmer
******
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 17,841

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 249 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16171 Post(s)
Liked 505 Times in 414 Posts
My Cycleart repaint with a steel fork.

...even with the touring model wheelbase and stay length, it's a little stiff unless you max out the tyre widths.



There are a couple of genuinely bargain priced Klein bikes on the local CL right now. Too stiff for my old ass.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 01-16-20, 12:09 PM
  #17  
rccardr 
aka: Dr. Cannondale
 
rccardr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,654

Bikes: Lots. Just...lots.

Mentioned: 165 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1154 Post(s)
Liked 121 Times in 87 Posts
Garden variety Cannondale SR frame from 1985-86. I see nothing to indicate it's anything other than that.

With a mixed bag of components in very poor condition and a bunch of rear end damage.
__________________
Hard at work in the Secret Underground Laboratory...
rccardr is offline  
Likes For rccardr:
Old 01-16-20, 12:46 PM
  #18  
Ronno6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Ronno6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Deep South
Posts: 1,295

Bikes: Cannondale SR's and ST's from the '80's

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by verktyg View Post



verktyg

ADDENDUM:

Took a close look at the frame in question... It appears that someone put indentations into the chain stays for crank arm clearance rather than install a wider BB spindle. Prime area for failure, especially in aluminum!

Fine example of the work of a ham fisted hammer mechanic!

.
Those indentations are a feature of Cannondale frames. Never seen a failure in those areas....
Ronno6 is offline  
Old 01-16-20, 12:57 PM
  #19  
Salamandrine 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,311

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 114 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1894 Post(s)
Liked 146 Times in 112 Posts
Looks like a regular Cannondale to me as well. The damage to the right chainstay and left seatstay etc make this frame worthless.

In theory it could be repaired if (maybe) one was willing to replace the damaged stays (and whatever else) and properly heat treat the whole thing. And then repaint. Since the cost to do that would far exceed the value of a Cannondale frame in un-trashed condition, obviously it would make no sense. Therefore, it is toast.
Salamandrine is offline  
Old 01-16-20, 01:10 PM
  #20  
Clang
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: South of the Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 2,776
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 464 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times in 13 Posts
Posting the good pics here. Oof!

They were definitely too lazy to toss the frame and part the rest out.





Clang is offline  
Old 01-16-20, 03:08 PM
  #21  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 20,870

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1907 Post(s)
Liked 237 Times in 170 Posts
Originally Posted by Ronno6 View Post
Klein built a "prototype" for Cannondale?
I can't believe it for a second...
Nor me.

If Cannondale wanted a prototype built, they had plenty of competent welders in-house to build it.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Likes For JohnDThompson:
Old 01-16-20, 03:46 PM
  #22  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 9,459

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '87 Schwinn Prelude, Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo, '18 Diamondback Syncr

Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3588 Post(s)
Liked 527 Times in 367 Posts
Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Ha, I hadn't been to the site in years. It's one of those amazingly confusiconfusing- you cant understand how they stay in business.
https://budgetbicyclectr.com/vintage...icycle-22.html
$18000 is the closeout price. I get that an old stumpy, but it isn't even a first year model.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 01-16-20, 03:49 PM
  #23  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 9,459

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '87 Schwinn Prelude, Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo, '18 Diamondback Syncr

Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3588 Post(s)
Liked 527 Times in 367 Posts
Originally Posted by verktyg View Post
Took a close look at the frame in question... It appears that someone put indentations into the chain stays for crank arm clearance rather than install a wider BB spindle. Prime area for failure, especially in aluminum!

Fine example of the work of a ham fisted hammer mechanic
Are the dimples on this frame a different shape or size than the normal dimples on Cannondale frames?
They just look like the normal dimples to me.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 01-16-20, 03:52 PM
  #24  
Ronno6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Ronno6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Deep South
Posts: 1,295

Bikes: Cannondale SR's and ST's from the '80's

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Are the dimples on this frame a different shape or size than the normal dimples on Cannondale frames?
They just look like the normal dimples to me.
They look pretty standard to me...........
Ronno6 is offline  
Old 01-16-20, 04:30 PM
  #25  
Drillium Dude 
NNNN
 
Drillium Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bothell, WA
Posts: 9,947

Bikes: 1973 Colnago Super, 1973 Colnago Super concept, 1979 Medici Pro Strada, 1979 Dennis Sparrow, 1980 Alpina, 1981 Bianchi Super Leggera, 1983 Colnago Mexico, 1985 Casati Perfection, 1985 Somec Super Corsa, 2002 Bill Davidson custom

Mentioned: 183 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1343 Post(s)
Liked 425 Times in 250 Posts
What I learned from this thread: ugly and broken costs $845.75 in Lincoln, California. Maybe.

DD
__________________
My Flickr pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/30331021@N08/

Drillium Dude is offline  
Likes For Drillium Dude:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.