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Vintage Roadbikes changing value?

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Vintage Roadbikes changing value?

Old 01-17-20, 10:24 PM
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Biketiger
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Vintage Roadbikes changing value?

Are prices for vintage steel roadbikes going down? For example, a nice 1980 original Richard Sachs 10 spee complete with campy grupo recently sold on ebay for $765. True just one sale but it was a 10 day auction not buy-it-now.
We know condition is king but how important is flashy paint job? The bike was a maroon brown with yellow decals. But it got me thinking, has the value for old road bikes decreased over the past decade? If so, why?
Is everyone now so accustomed to carbon fiber and integrated shifters, and definitely not down-tube shifters, not to mention non-aero brakes, and the inferior freewheel, 27" rims and don't even talk about tubulars. I'm NOT dissing these bikes. I have one - an 83 Trek 630 - albeit with 700c wheels & better brakes. I know that the most coveted examples - classic italian race frames, ornate lugs and the like will always command high prices but has the overall market softened?
Has technology & taste made classic roadbikes built in the 1970s and 80s and similar (like steel 26" mtn bikes) the way of the film camera? Cool but not what most people with money to spend on bikes are going to pay too much for? Maybe the folks who fancy these bikes already have one or two? People are into many different types of bikes today, road, gravel, mtn, fixie, cross that the room for 10 speeds has shrunk? What do you guys think?

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Old 01-17-20, 10:33 PM
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Laws of supply and demand.
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Old 01-17-20, 10:34 PM
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it appears that way to me, especially noticeable in the past 8 months or so. There have been a few threads that led in this direction. I wonder if the market is saturated, the 'fixie' thing has run it's course, and the gravel bike has taken over.
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Old 01-17-20, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by thinktubes View Post
Laws of supply and demand.
Demand has definitely shifted. A bike made in 1980 is now 40 years old. And unlike cars of that era - there's still a lot of them around. So the supply is there. Why is the demand different? For decades, 60's thru the 80's the technology gradually improved but was not revolutionary. They were all steel bikes, all had cassettes and dt shifters, cages, etc We've gone through many major technology shifts since. A classic Raleigh roadbike built in 1970 is now 50 years old. Is vintage becoming antique?

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Old 01-17-20, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Biketiger View Post
Are prices for vintage steel roadbikes going down? For example, a nice 1980 original Richard Sachs 10 spee complete with campy grupo recently sold on ebay for $765. True just one sale but it was a 10 day auction not buy-it-now.
We know condition is king but how important is flashy paint job? The bike was a maroon brown with yellow decals. But it got me thinking, has the value for old road bikes decreased over the past decade? If so, why?
Is everyone now so accustomed to carbon fiber and integrated shifters, and definitely not down-tube shifters, not to mention non-aero brakes, and the inferior freewheel, 27" rims and don't even talk about tubulars. I'm NOT dissing these bikes. I have one - an 83 Trek 630 - albeit with 700c wheels & better brakes. I know that the most coveted examples - classic italian race frames, ornate lugs and the like will always command high prices but has the overall market softened?
Has technology & taste made classic roadbikes built in the 1970s and 80s and similar (like steel 26" mtn bikes) the way of the film camera? Cool but not what most people with money to spend on bikes are going to pay too much for? Maybe the folks who fancy these bikes already have one or two? People are into many different types of bikes today, road, gravel, mtn, fixie, cross that the room for 10 speeds has shrunk? What do you guys think?
Well if look at sold auctions on efbay all the other RS frames and bikes are holding their own just fine. A new 2019 frame sold for 5k so.......

That being said, many other iconic, coveted, rare, higher end bikes that used to bring good $$$ do not these days.

The one you point out was imo an anomally. Nothing wrong with the color, likely root beer brown, very popular back in the day as were the yellow decals that are on it.

That was a very sharp bike, and a smokin deal.

In general all or most of the things you cite have something to do with it, its a fickle thing at best to begin with, getting more so by the day currently.
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Old 01-17-20, 11:06 PM
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The bike in question

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Richard-Sac...p2047675.l2557
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Old 01-17-20, 11:14 PM
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$230 shipping factored into that price. That's pretty steep compared to most.
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Old 01-17-20, 11:28 PM
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the generations that can appreciate bikes of the 70s and 80s are now in their 40s 50s and 60s. collections are downsizing and more C&V bikes are coming out of the woodwork through the many online classifieds.
modern bikes at low costs are pretty decent for basic commuting as well as some pretty nice 90s and 2k are bikes are cheap as well.
Bikes get stolen. with the ease and low cost of dockless bikes and scooters littlered all over the place, its easy to jump on one of those and ditch it somewhere for a few bucks. no lock needed. no cost to store and maintain.
ridesharing makes life without a car in the city cheap and easy too.
Im ok with it as a nostalgic collector. I can buy really cool clean bikes for nothing that would have cost me a fortune 10 years ago.
supply and demand.
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Old 01-17-20, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cheffyjay View Post
$230 shipping factored into that price. That's pretty steep compared to most.
True that but 1k for a good condition RS was still a great deal no matter how you look at it.

Next cheapest was a frame only for $1160
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Old 01-17-20, 11:44 PM
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Older bike with downtube shifters for $200 or newer brifter bike for $200 ? 99% take the brifter
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Old 01-18-20, 12:22 AM
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No matter what the market does, my rule is always, "buy high and sell low", or at least that's how it always seems. Works for cars, bikes, everything except houses, so far.
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Old 01-18-20, 02:42 AM
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The down-tube demographic is getting older. I watched the same thing happen with the vintage car market. One can buy a Ford Model A for a song these days compared to post 50's cars. Newer generations simply aren't interested because they have no experience with them, and they are too archaic to use. And yes, they are right. Us vintage/classic people are sentimental. We were young enough to remember when buying one of these racers was out of our financial reach. Now that we can have them for next to nothing, most of our stables are full. Plus, our riding days are coming to an end due to age and/or frailty. Only buy a vintage bike if you intend to lose money. Period. A set of new tires and tubes, not to mention a few other things, and your investment is toast. I had a DeRosa Professional I tried to sell forever. I was totally stumped as to why it wouldn't sell, and I had put brifters on it even. I ended up taking a bath on that frame after I was forced to dismantle the bike to part out. I have a bike right now that I can't hardly give away. The offers have been insulting, but I'm beginning to think maybe realistic. My new rule of thumb is: If I'm not 100% sure I want to keep it, don't buy it if it's C&V. That is, unless you like your showers cold.
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Old 01-18-20, 05:49 AM
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That Sachs is a pretty bike.

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Old 01-18-20, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by UKFan4Sure View Post
The down-tube demographic is getting older. I watched the same thing happen with the vintage car market. One can by a Ford Model A for a song these days compared to post 50's cars. Newer generations simply aren't interested because they have no experience with them, and they are too archaic to use. And yes, they are right. Us vintage/classic people are sentimental. We were young enough to remember when buying one of these racers was out of our financial reach. Now that we can have them for next to nothing, most of our stables are full. Plus, our riding days are coming to an end due to age and/or frailty. Only buy a vintage bike if you intend to lose money. Period. A set of new tires and tubes, not to mention a few other things, and your investment is toast. I had a DeRosa Professional I tried to sell forever. I was totally stumped as to why it wouldn't sell, and I had put brifters on it even. I ended up taking a bath on that frame after I was forced to dismantle the bike to part out. I have a bike right now that I can't hardly give away. The offers have been insulting, but I'm beginning to think maybe realistic. My new rule of thumb is: If I'm not 100% sure I want to keep it, don't buy it if it's C&V. That is, unless you like your showers cold.
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Old 01-18-20, 06:03 AM
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I also think that the market suffers from too much diversification in terms of genre. I mean fifty years ago, we did not have mountain bikes, e-bikes, gravel bikes, muscle bikes, hybrids, tadpole trikes, recumbents, ratbikes, etc. So much distraction. I view C&V bikes like I do automobiles. There are classic cars, and there are modern normal everyday cars. If you are not into classic cars, you may opt to get a Prius instead of a Bel Air. Same with bikes. Lots of people are young enough now to have never used friction shifting. Times change. Markets die out because of creative destruction.
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Old 01-18-20, 06:51 AM
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You have the new generation coming up who thinks a road tire smaller than 50mm is too small and "beats them up". The thought of riding a 23-25 makes them cringe in pain lol. And a 39-42T small ring scares them. So vintage bikes probably aren't their thing.
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Old 01-18-20, 07:09 AM
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Quite a few folks were not paying attention when that Sachs sold. But, yes--It is a good time to start a collection.
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Old 01-18-20, 07:16 AM
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Value is in the eye of the beholder. What's considered valuable depends on many variables, but chiefly quality and scarcity. Uniqueness counts, as well, but most of the bikes we covet are not one-offs, but production models.

We choose bikes, others lunchboxes.
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Old 01-18-20, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
You have the new generation coming up who thinks a road tire smaller than 50mm is too small and "beats them up". The thought of riding a 23-25 makes them cringe in pain lol. And a 39-42T small ring scares them. So vintage bikes probably aren't their thing.
So true! I find my 23s quite comfy with the right pressure. I thought my first set of 25s were sluggish.
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Old 01-18-20, 07:52 AM
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In addition to the shipping price, note the damage on the right chainstay (which the seller was kind enough to fully disclose). Looks like some chainsuck went on until it ground away some of the silver on the dropout-to-chainstay joint.



I know this is relatively minor - there's a lot of us here that would dismiss such a flaw as normal on some brands of production bikes - but this is a Sachs. Part of the reason to own a Sachs' frame is the workmanship on every last possible detail, which means damage like this (however minor) may receive more consideration from a buyer than usual.

Also, this is an early model - not everyone is acquainted with that particular fork crown engraving. There was a thread here recently about one of his early forks and e-RICHIE himself had to chime chime in and confirm that the specific fork in question dated to about 1978/79:

Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
I can't address all the inaccurate comments directed at my work, but I was emailed about the fork alone. It is one of mine. Yes, I did have many versions of the pantographing until I could afford having my own font made into a traceable pattern. This fork was probably from an order I filled in 1978. Maybe 1979.
The lack of knowledge about these forks might have turned some prospective buyers off. Not everyone who buys one of these is necessarily a perfect historian on Sachs' work, after all.

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Old 01-18-20, 08:18 AM
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Vintage bikes are a fun hobby, but modern bikes offer increased utility for ordinary cyclist and improved performance for elite cyclist. I've always used updated components with vintage framesets to keep my bikes from becoming excessively dated. This can be done without ruining the character of the bike if updates are chosen with some restraint.

However, the same features that the retro-grouch hate, such as modern brakes, tires and drivetrains have made cycling far safer and more enjoyable for the vast public.
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Old 01-18-20, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by norcalmike View Post
the generations that can appreciate bikes of the 70s and 80s are now in their 40s 50s and 60s. collections are downsizing and more C&V bikes are coming out of the woodwork through the many online classifieds.
supply and demand.
This is the major reason IMO. I follow and participate in several vintage markets including vintage tennis rackets and it is the same case. Hopefully the trend changes since it is hard to downsize (N-1) if you have to accept a loss of investment or significant decreased value. Auction sellers should used an acceptable fixed or reserve price to insure sales are not too low, ie prevent investment loss.
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Old 01-18-20, 08:29 AM
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When you can order a perfectly decent steel or aluminum road bike on-line for around $400 and, have it delivered to your doorstep why would you bother paying the same amount for a 30 or 40 year old classic? I think used prices have more to do with giant asian factories, automation, robots and the internet than anything else. Factories in Taiwan can produce thousands of bikes a day for a fraction of what they used to cost (in adjusted dollars) in the past. And - unless the vintage bike is a really superior product, most of the modern mass produced bikes are much better than the vintage bikes.

I can't get anybody to answer my advertisements for sale of vintage road bikes until I drop the price under $200. The last three I sold went for $185 each. About 1/2 the cost of a on-line ordered bike.

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Old 01-18-20, 08:32 AM
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It's a 40 year old RS.
And a repainted one at that.
I have no idea what if any mods may have been made.









Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
In addition to the shipping price, note the damage on the right chainstay (which the seller was kind enough to fully disclose). Looks like some chainsuck went on until it ground away some of the silver on the dropout-to-chainstay joint.



I know this is relatively minor - there's a lot of us here that would dismiss such a flaw as normal on some brands of production bikes - but this is a Sachs. Part of the reason to own a Sachs' frame is the workmanship on every last possible detail, which means damage like this (however minor) may receive more consideration from a buyer than usual.

Also, this is an early model - not everyone is acquainted with that particular fork crown engraving. There was a thread here recently about one of his early forks and e-RICHIE himself had to chime chime in and confirm that the specific fork in question dated to about 1978/79:



The lack of knowledge about these forks might have turned some prospective buyers off. Not everyone who buys one of these is necessarily a perfect historian on Sachs' work, after all.

-Kurt
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Old 01-18-20, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Slightspeed View Post
No matter what the market does, my rule is always, "buy high and sell low", or at least that's how it always seems. Works for cars, bikes, everything except houses, so far.
Good for you that real estate is location*3 (SoCal ) but not the case for C&V bikes.
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