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Help Identify Pinarello - Treviso?

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Help Identify Pinarello - Treviso?

Old 01-20-20, 05:24 AM
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Griff2000
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Help Identify Pinarello - Treviso?

Hi all,


First post here today but been a long time reader. Apologies for posting quite a common topic but I've read other Pinarello identification threads and I still can't seem to place the one I've bought.


Photos to follow shortly. So, I bought this Pinarello from ebay and as the photos show it is an old frame with modern components - Campag centaur groupset, carbon forks, wheels, seatpost and bars. So I'm just trying to work out the frame and whether it is a fake, and if not then what year, model and tubing. Here's some of the details and a few concerns and question marks I have:


- The decals - I've read that Pinarello decals were notoriously poor and peeled and scratched quite easily. The ones on this bike are pretty much perfect so I'm guessing they are new and not original. They're also on the bike surface and not under a lacquer layer. I can pick at the edges and could peel them off fairly easily. Did Pinarello tend to lacquer over the decals? Any chance these would be original?

- There is no Columbus sticker. Instead there is a sticker in the normal Columbus position that reads 'Cicli Oliveri Montecchio'. From googling this appears to be a bike shop in Italy. Interestingly, this sticker seems to be below a lacquer layer as I cannot pick at the edges of it.

- The bike seems to have the right Pinarello marking and engravings - the 'flower' engraving on the top of the down tube x 1, on the top of the bottom bracket x 2, on the inside top of the rear brake bridge x 2, there are 2 x GPT engravings on the seat stays, and you can just make out a 'Pinarello Treviso Italy' stamp on the underside of the BB but I cannot see any sign of a serial number anywhere.

- The drive side chain stay is chromed but the non-drive side is just paint.

- Drop outs are Campagnolo

- There is a front mech braze on mount.

- Pinarello metal badge on the head tube.

- There is a signature in black pen on the top tube, non-drive side. Something beginning with 'V' I think. This is below a lacquer layer and I think it is a real signature and not a sticker.

- The frame has 3 cable house guides on the top tube.


I'm hoping the engravings suggest it is not a fake (is it easy to fake engravings?!). So if not, does anyone know what model and tubing it might be? And what the signature might be about? From looking at images online I wonder if it might be an early 80's Treviso? Maybe 1982-ish?


Thanks in advance!
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Old 01-20-20, 05:45 AM
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If it has Ďengravingsí aka pantographs or pantoís, it is most likely a legitimate Pinarello.

Youíre right that vintage Pinarello decals were poor and Pinarello did not clear coat their frames (at least up until the early 90ís.) So it sounds like it has been re-painted with new decals.

Have a really good look if there is a serial number, often they are hard to spot, especially if the re-paint is thick. Pinarello serial numbers arenít that helpful really, but they can narrow down the year a bit.

Guesses on year and model will have to wait until the photos are posted.
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Old 01-20-20, 05:47 AM
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Pic assist

From OPís gallery




These pics certainly look to be of a legitimate Pinarello bike. Because of the pristine condition and tubing sticker, it is almost certainly a repainted frame.

As to model, a picture of the bottom bracket shell, the brake bridge, any bridge on the chain stays, and of the rear dropout may help ID.

If you pull the bottom bracket, you can inspect the frame tube internals for helical ridges to help ID the tube flavor.

Also, what is the seat post size? 27.2mm or other?

Last edited by CO_Hoya; 01-20-20 at 05:51 AM.
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Old 01-20-20, 05:51 AM
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Hmmm, can't upload photos. Saying I can't upload URLs (does that include photos?) until I have 10 posts. Is that correct? Any advice?! Good start!
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Old 01-20-20, 06:04 AM
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More pic assist







From the definition on the lugs, looks like paint rather than powder coat.

Nice bike - no idea on model, but likely mid-80s: Campy dropout, non-nutted brake bridge, single bottle.
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Old 01-20-20, 06:07 AM
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Wow, thanks for the help CO-Hoya. Those were the pics I tried to attach - not sure how they went to a gallery or where my gallery is. But thanks for re-posting! Much appreciated.
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Old 01-20-20, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by P!N20 View Post
If it has Ďengravingsí aka pantographs or pantoís, it is most likely a legitimate Pinarello.

Youíre right that vintage Pinarello decals were poor and Pinarello did not clear coat their frames (at least up until the early 90ís.) So it sounds like it has been re-painted with new decals.

Have a really good look if there is a serial number, often they are hard to spot, especially if the re-paint is thick. Pinarello serial numbers arenít that helpful really, but they can narrow down the year a bit.

Guesses on year and model will have to wait until the photos are posted.
Thanks for the reply. Some photos added now. I'll keep trying to add more. Hopefully should work when I've posted enough replies.
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Old 01-20-20, 10:02 AM
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Also, where should I be looking for the serial number? I've search all over the underside of the BB but can't see anything. Maybe to do with the paint thickness, as you say.
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Old 01-20-20, 02:48 PM
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The Campagnolo dropouts are non-Portacatena, which would make it no earlier than circa 1984. Pinarello introduced their eponymous dropouts circa 1987. Consequently, it should be circa 1984-1986. The Treviso didn't have a brazed-on front derailleur hanger though 1985 but did in 1987. I'm not sure about 1986. In 1984-1985, there was a model called the Super Record Special which was basically a Treviso with a front derailleur braze-on.

The decals are an obvious replacement, as they are in too good condition and are incomplete. However, the paint appears to to original. In which case I'm surprised that the stay caps aren't chromed. Based on extant catalogues, both the Treviso and Super Record Special had chromed stay caps on 1985. Again I'm not sure about 1986, but they were gone on the Treviso by 1987.

It's also been suggested that there is only one set of bottle bosses. Is this true? The bottle mounts on the seat tube from this era can hard to see in side photos, as there is no raised boss, just a flush hole with threads.

It's obviously not a Montello and based on the dating aids, would appear to be mid-1980s, either a Treviso or Super Record Special. Of course, that assumes it's a USA market model. Variations are often seen on foreign models. You can raise your confidence in a Columbus SL tubeset by verifying that requires a 27.2mm seat post. Unfortunately, the OEM fork is gone, so the presence of a Columbus steerer tube can't be verified.
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Old 01-20-20, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
The Campagnolo dropouts are non-Portacatena, which would make it no earlier than circa 1984. Pinarello introduced their eponymous dropouts circa 1987. Consequently, it should be circa 1984-1986. The Treviso didn't have a brazed-on front derailleur hanger though 1985 but did in 1987. I'm not sure about 1986. In 1984-1985, there was a model called the Super Record Special which was basically a Treviso with a front derailleur braze-on.

The decals are an obvious replacement, as they are in too good condition and are incomplete. However, the paint appears to to original. In which case I'm surprised that the stay caps aren't chromed. Based on extant catalogues, both the Treviso and Super Record Special had chromed stay caps on 1985. Again I'm not sure about 1986, but they were gone on the Treviso by 1987.

It's also been suggested that there is only one set of bottle bosses. Is this true? The bottle mounts on the seat tube from this era can hard to see in side photos, as there is no raised boss, just a flush hole with threads.

It's obviously not a Montello and based on the dating aids, would appear to be mid-1980s, either a Treviso or Super Record Special. Of course, that assumes it's a USA market model. Variations are often seen on foreign models. You can raise your confidence in a Columbus SL tubeset by verifying that requires a 27.2mm seat post. Unfortunately, the OEM fork is gone, so the presence of a Columbus steerer tube can't be verified.
Hi, thanks for your reply. Thatís really helpful. Iím in the UK and the person I bought it from said he got it from someone who brought it back from Italy. So not a USA market model as far as I know. Not sure if that impacts on the model variations?

Just checked and it is indeed a 27.2mm seatpost. Definitely only one set of bottle cage bosses too.
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Old 01-20-20, 09:50 PM
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The seat post frame Decal should have the Pinarello on both sides not down the center,, Maybe because no bottle braze ons like T-Mar said.
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Old 01-20-20, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
The Treviso didn't have a brazed-on front derailleur hanger though 1985 but did in 1987.
This has been debated before, but thereís plenty of circa Ď85 Trevisos with FD hangers, there was even one in the Ď85 catalog: http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/Pinarello85/7.jpg
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Old 01-20-20, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Griff2000 View Post
Also, where should I be looking for the serial number?
Either towards the front of the bottom bracket shell between the cutout and down tube intersection, or off to one side, usually the drive side. However the pics that youíve supplied donít suggest a serial number in either location.
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Old 01-21-20, 02:43 AM
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If the fork is not original, make sure you check good for any front end damage (buckling) at the top and down tubes.....
Forks usually do not just get changed out for no reason.....especially on a top line bike like a Pinarello.
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Old 01-21-20, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by P!N20 View Post
Either towards the front of the bottom bracket shell between the cutout and down tube intersection, or off to one side, usually the drive side. However the pics that youíve supplied donít suggest a serial number in either location.
I'll have a really good look later when home from work. I might need to shine a torch on it to bring up any faint signs on a serial number if the paint is really thick.
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Old 01-21-20, 07:04 AM
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All seems to be OK in terms of the front end. Can't see any buckling, thankfully. Not sure why the fork was removed. I think perhaps just the frame was purchased or brought over from Italy. Not sure it was a whole bike.
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Old 01-21-20, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Griff2000 View Post
I'll have a really good look later when home from work. I might need to shine a torch on it to bring up any faint signs on a serial number if the paint is really thick.
Iíve had a look and I can possibly make out the signs of a serial number when held in the right light. Seems to be on the underside of the BB shell, on the drive side (like suggested). But so faint. The paint must be really thick, or a couple of coats. Iíd need to take the paint off to see if itís actually a serial number. Not sure thatís worth it?
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Old 01-21-20, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Manny66 View Post
The seat post frame Decal should have the Pinarello on both sides not down the center,, Maybe because no bottle braze ons like T-Mar said.
Yes I did wonder about that as Iíve seen a number of these with the decals offset from the centre of the seat tube. Hadnít considered the bottle cage bosses, so that explains it.
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Old 01-21-20, 03:11 PM
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Old 01-21-20, 03:13 PM
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mine is an ‘85 treviso-redecaled and repainted. has the internal cable routing. forgive the dirt in the pics from recent rains. hope this helps eliminate a possibility.







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Old 01-21-20, 03:14 PM
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Here's a few more photos now that I can upload them. Does anyone know what the signature on the top tube might be about? Also the bike shop decal on the seat tube in place of the usual Columbus one? Both are under a clear coat. Would it be normal for a bike shop to put their sticker in place of the Columbus one? Seems odd to me. Haven't seen it on any others when I've searched.
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Old 01-21-20, 03:50 PM
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Cheers ooga-booga. Nice bike. I like the internal cable routing. Mine doesnít have that unfortunately. Thatís a nice feature, Iím guessing on better models?
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Old 01-21-20, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Griff2000 View Post
All seems to be OK in terms of the front end. Can't see any buckling, thankfully. Not sure why the fork was removed. I think perhaps just the frame was purchased or brought over from Italy. Not sure it was a whole bike.
Hi,
my question is: Is there an elongated dent on the outside of the drive side chain stay near the BB? Where the chain rings cover the chain stay. Unfortunately, I can't see clearly from the pictures.
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Old 01-21-20, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Old Fireleg View Post
Hi,
my question is: Is there an elongated dent on the outside of the drive side chain stay near the BB? Where the chain rings cover the chain stay. Unfortunately, I can't see clearly from the pictures.
No there does not seem to be a dent. It seems all uniform along the length of the chain stay.

Please see new pic attached.
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Old 01-21-20, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Griff2000 View Post
Iíd need to take the paint off to see if itís actually a serial number. Not sure thatís worth it?
I wouldnít worry about it - itís not going to tell you much.
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