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-   -   The old and the new, the ying and the yang, the good, bad and the ugly, you decide. (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1196565-old-new-ying-yang-good-bad-ugly-you-decide.html)

squirtdad 03-26-20 11:54 AM


Originally Posted by merziac (Post 21384713)
Tx!

So we talked at length about it and this is the result, it will be rideable for longer than full size and its almost at the top of my range as is.

similar to my thinking if i were to ever get a custom (getting closer kid will graduate college in may) also in my mind a practical reason in addition to aethetics for a quill stem

SJX426 03-26-20 11:57 AM

Congrats! Beautiful bike.
How is Andy?

gaucho777 03-26-20 11:58 AM

Congrats. That's a fantastic "forever" bike. I like the mix of old & new. My only quibble is the seat post, for the reasons stated above, but that's a minor complaint. Looking forward to seeing more photos once you get it out on the road!

Dfrost 03-26-20 01:36 PM


Originally Posted by merziac (Post 21384720)
Going to polish a Campy 2 bolt soon for backup.

Simichrome that Campy 2 bolt, Van!

And if it were me, I’d cross the shift cables under the DT so that the housings from the brifters won’t scuff the HT

mechanicmatt 03-26-20 01:51 PM

This is super pretty, nice build. Very cool. Love the lugs.

merziac 03-26-20 03:47 PM


Originally Posted by SJX426 (Post 21384763)
Congrats! Beautiful bike.
How is Andy?

Tx!

Funny you should ask, he's fine but there is an addendum coming. ;)

merziac 03-26-20 03:59 PM

Please see the addendum at the very beginning of the thread. ;)

merziac 03-26-20 04:02 PM


Originally Posted by Dfrost (Post 21384930)
Simichrome that Campy 2 bolt, Van!

And if it were me, I’d cross the shift cables under the DT so that the housings from the brifters won’t scuff the HT

I may revisit, I fought with them for a half a day, they are very uncooperative and I was underskilled, they may be a bit long but shortening them seemed like it would make it worse, that was the best I could do at the time.

merziac 03-26-20 06:04 PM


Originally Posted by Mr. 66 (Post 21384511)
What a beauty! What is the metrics size and angles?

Tx!

I'll get them although they changed a bit toward the end when I asked to slope the TT a bit after thinking about it so we ended up with 1 degree or about 15 mm drop at the back.

We talked about it originally but I wasn't thinking right, would have done 2 or 3 degrees maybe, didn't want modern looking with a lot. ;)

ascherer 03-26-20 06:27 PM

Love this. I also raised an eyebrow over the seat post choice but what the heck - you do you, man. It's a beauty.

Classtime 03-26-20 06:34 PM


Originally Posted by merziac (Post 21385167)
I may revisit, I fought with them for a half a day, they are very uncooperative and I was underskilled, they may be a bit long but shortening them seemed like it would make it worse, that was the best I could do at the time.

a bit of helicopter tape can protect that new looking forever paint. I can send you a few inches if you'd like. I use a couple pieces at the head tube and one at the seat stay on my forever bike.

Jeff.

merziac 03-26-20 11:21 PM


Originally Posted by ascherer (Post 21385383)
Love this. I also raised an eyebrow over the seat post choice but what the heck - you do you, man. It's a beauty.

Tx man it was quite an exercise, I had several little pita things that went wrong, right and plenty of in between, sorted some, reconciled some and got lucky with some.

The SP was a no brainer for me and now that it has garnered this much attention I will find a way to make it work.

Going to get to work on a 2 bolt as well. ;)

merziac 03-26-20 11:23 PM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 21385394)
a bit of helicopter tape can protect that new looking forever paint. I can send you a few inches if you'd like. I use a couple pieces at the head tube and one at the seat stay on my forever bike.

Jeff.

I'll take you up on that, pm coming.

merziac 03-26-20 11:53 PM


Originally Posted by USAZorro (Post 21384502)
Not my personal cup of tea, but clearly you've thought this all through and have done a top-notch job of pulling this together flawlessly. :thumb:

Here's to many, many miles and years of enjoyment. :beer:

Tx!

It was far from flawless but I managed to slog through without doing any damage so far.

merziac 03-27-20 12:05 AM


Originally Posted by obrentharris (Post 21384638)
Congratulations Van!
I'd love to see some lighter photos of the details; lugs, fork crown, cable stops, etc. Maybe sometime when you get it out in the sun. That beautiful paint should really pop in the sunlight!
I like the look of the straight pin seat post and clamp but nlerner is certainly right about the squirrely nature of that type of setup.
Brent

Here are a couple more quick ones for now.

Anybody think that binder bolt will ever fail or not be able to secure a post?


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6438ac2a1f.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...83d459d25c.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4214c6201f.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f127775bc0.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...957ad02cc8.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ffc23e2a84.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...aba23e7f84.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9f6161e3cf.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8a078ed092.jpg

merziac 03-27-20 12:20 AM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 21384756)
similar to my thinking if i were to ever get a custom (getting closer kid will graduate college in may) also in my mind a practical reason in addition to aethetics for a quill stem

No way in H**L this would ever not have a quill stem, that and Campy HS are the only way this would ever be.

Threadless, cartridge, disposable, cookie cutter "improvements" mentality are a big part of why we are in the multiple predicaments we're in and we ain't getting out of them anytime soon, nevermind how fugly much of it is. :twitchy:

merziac 03-27-20 12:54 AM


Originally Posted by Sandstrom (Post 21384577)
WOW, nice you got it right. That has to be the most overall proportionally pleasing large frame I've ever seen. A large frame that doesn't end up looking like an awkward compromise in the final build. Bravo, well done! :thumb:

Tx!

The magic of it was all Dave, he has probably built a more diverse range than many, this was a cakewalk for him, he knows exactly what he is doing as we can see here.

I did do a smart thing by taking the two bikes I did for the fitting that Andy told me to get (no he doesn't do them himself :foo:), I took the BG that is only a 60 and some a bit odd criterium like geometry and the big silver Merz that is a 66. Dave was amazed that I had both of them set up so that I settled in to the exact same position on each while riding despite them being so different, he said that allowed him to zero in on a sweet spot that can be hard to find and is not always what you would think it would be. Both the bikes fly down the road for me very well yet are very different.

crank_addict 03-27-20 04:44 AM

Congrats! Definetely a head turn, er headset turner. Crowns and lugs, paint- handsome. More pics ;")

Rubber is right on the deck, no mudguards for this one.

Tossing thought on the seatpost, perhaps J&L to match the calipers and go silver. I have both in black and other in silver. The silver can polish up.

Seller in Taiwan might also work with you on finish and exra length, should that matter. I hadn't been pleased with the looks of clamp part, sent pics and complaint. They were very fast to respond and sent another.

Looking forward to the ride report-

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...544e816040.png
J&L

dddd 03-27-20 11:13 AM

Checking out all the unique details is entertaining!

Did you mention who made that cool stem?

merziac 03-27-20 11:31 AM


Originally Posted by dddd (Post 21386360)
Checking out all the unique details is entertaining!

Did you mention who made that cool stem?

Tx!

Its a VO.

79pmooney 03-27-20 12:54 PM

merziac, good work! Your vision, Andy's ideas, inspiration and love. Dave's excellant work.

Most of you know, I love working with Dave Levy. He is the framebuilder who will take on almost any challenge IF you can convince him it is needed and you are serious. The range of the bikes (and non-bikes; he's also a first class machinist and engineer - race car fittings, wheel chairs, ...) is amazing. I love going there just to look at what's lying around!

Like you, I brought an old steel bike that fit super to him and told him to make the ti bike I'd wanted for 18 years based on that super fit. (Univega Competition. Same fit as the Fuji Pro I raced and loved.) We tweaked the geometry - higher BB, the Univeaga was a pedal scraper, slightly longer TT, slightly steeper HT so I could drop down from a 130 to a 120 stem. (God's choice. Us old racers all know that.) Then the tweaks that are just me. Flipping the rear wishbone (that is a longtime TiCycles trademark as well) so the rear brake is forward of the seatstays. "Braze-on" for a DT top mount Superbe shifter. (Dave insisted on the HT "braze-ons" so I could go index later. 12 years and I haven't touched them yet.) Oh, and 1' steel steerer! Dave tried to talk me into 1-1/8" Sometimes I wonder if I should have. But then, the day will come when I put on a Nitto Pearl. Just take the fork to TiCycles and have them thread it. Easy! Nitto Pearl in "12 cm". God would be pleased. (And God certainly knows that the fact it is right despite saying "Pearl 11".

Dave's also made my quite different fix gear (with conventional fastback stays like a track bike), modified and did numerous repairs on my Raleigh Competition, repaired my Trek winter bike (manufacturer's defect) and made unusual parts for the Mooney (and a little minor cleanup on that well ridden and worn frame. He also built a new fork for my fix gear in a real rush after the original cracked just weeks before Cycle Oregon. Lesson - if you nickle plate high strength steel (here Columbus SP), you MUST heat treat it after to drive the hydrogen molecules out of the steel. Otherwise, those huge molecules are like gravel in the mortar of a brick building that's going to see minor earthquakes. I lucked out..Last ride of that fork was a 2000' elevation training ride for CO. At the high point with all of that descending to go, I couldn't get the chain tension right when I changed to the little 13 tooth cog. So I nursed the bike down slowly with a very loose chain instead of flying into my favorite bend and shutting down hard to take the tight, banked corner at 30. Got home with the front of the bike bucking every time I touched the front brake. There were cracks running around half of the two fork blades. Dave made the replacement very fast (after having to order 531) on a very conservative crown. I got see the old fork after he cut one of the blades off. The braze around the inside of the crown? Except for the matte finish of braze that had never seen a tool, file sandpaper or eyes, it was a perfectly uniform radius all around. Wow!

Dave took the fork to a forensic materials engineering professor at the local PSU. Learned of the need to heat treat after nickle plating. Talked to the plating outfit. They knew well about the heat treat but it was another $30, They said nothing and didn't do it. (TiCycles no longer uses them.) Current fork just got repainted with the bike name (Jessica J). For years,it bore model shop enamel that Dave sprayed the day before I took it to ride CO. Perfect paint job! But model shop enamel is not what you paint custom bikes with for a durable finish!

Long story, yes. But of another framebuilder who, like Andy, loves bikes and loves to see them ridden. (And I think he invests a little good luck in the bikes he works on. Jessica decided to give me mechanical issues when the fork she was saddled with had only few miles and hours left before it was going to break. Second major fork failure for me. First nearly killed. Current is as conservative as it gets and Jessica seems to love it. May your "Strawberry" be so blessed with good luck and keep you safe!)

Ben

79pmooney 03-27-20 12:58 PM

Seatpost - maybe this is too much setback, but a post that would look really good is the Nitto steel. Lugged steel. Excellent workmanship. Chromed. Not very heavy. My Mooney loves its.

Classtime 03-27-20 03:24 PM

The old sCool Campy brake blocks are a neat touch. What was the rationale?
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8a078ed092.jpg

merziac 03-27-20 03:52 PM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 21386753)
The old sCool Campy brake blocks are a neat touch. What was the rationale?
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8a078ed092.jpg

All about the chrome holders baby!

+Skewers, SP, clamp and rails, HS, stem, spacers and NOS record pedals with chrome steel cages.

Wanted chrome on the frame, wasn't going to happen without a lot more time and $$$$$, adjusted my want and went with bolt on. ;)

Actually going to change out for cool stops to save the Campy's.

Also tried holders without the black plastic covering and wasn't sure, tried these and left them on but may revisit the others. :foo:

merziac 03-29-20 01:15 AM

79pmooney

Tx!

Actually mostly all Dave's excellent work, patience with me and magic superpower that was very much needed with this.

The crowns are designed for 650b rando builds, pretty sure that's one of the reasons Andy bowed out knowing that I wanted them, clearance for 32's, and short reach brakes with 700c wheels.:twitchy:

Of course Dave made it happen and I love it, so glad it turned out well despite my "vision". ;)

merziac 03-29-20 01:32 AM


Originally Posted by obrentharris (Post 21384638)
Congratulations Van!
I'd love to see some lighter photos of the details; lugs, fork crown, cable stops, etc. Maybe sometime when you get it out in the sun. That beautiful paint should really pop in the sunlight!
I like the look of the straight pin seat post and clamp but nlerner is certainly right about the squirrely nature of that type of setup.
Brent

Here are some raw pics, nothing cooler than actual before pics. ;)


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8c8f6f5fcc.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7952ef611a.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4d731eabe4.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...88c3048a73.jpg

merziac 03-29-20 02:05 AM

More


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...99506426b1.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e55fea4a4a.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5a8461a0ce.jpg

And Mr. 66

ST 73 deg.
ST 660mm C to top
TT 580mm C to C, level
HT 73.75 deg
TH 220mm(depends on fork length...)
FC 600mm
CS 420mm C to C
Drop 70mm
Spacing 130mm
Headset 1" threaded/quill stem

The TT was sloped 1 degree at the last minute for about 15mm drop at the back so....

We talked about it in the beginning and I was a hard no, not thinking 2, maybe 3 degrees would have been ok but I was thinking modern and didn't want that much. :crash:

merziac 03-29-20 02:48 AM


Originally Posted by crank_addict (Post 21385843)
Congrats! Definetely a head turn, er headset turner. Crowns and lugs, paint- handsome. More pics ;")

Rubber is right on the deck, no mudguards for this one.

Tossing thought on the seatpost, perhaps J&L to match the calipers and go silver. I have both in black and other in silver. The silver can polish up.

Seller in Taiwan might also work with you on finish and exra length, should that matter. I hadn't been pleased with the looks of clamp part, sent pics and complaint. They were very fast to respond and sent another.

Looking forward to the ride report-

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...544e816040.png
J&L

Tx for all that. :thumb:

Going to workover and polish a 2 bolt Campy next, that was the other first choice and will get done before any else.

And as I stated, there will be a considerable amount of effort put into the clamp and post to resolve the reliability. This is one of those things where most say "oh its a POS anyway, no need to waste any effort on it", well it was what there was for a long time and worked just fine so I will drill down and find a way to use it.

The 58 Paramount has the exact same setup that has been on there for 62 years and works so we'll see. ;)

Bianchigirll 03-29-20 03:29 PM

That's beautiful!!! That rear crown for the wishbone stay is a cool idea. The extended head tube is a nice touch too.

merziac 03-29-20 04:10 PM


Originally Posted by Bianchigirll (Post 21390213)
That's beautiful!!! That rear crown for the wishbone stay is a cool idea. The extended head tube is a nice touch too.

:thumb: Tx!

They were a challenge, especially the front crown that originally has big standoff's both front and back that Dave carved out, reinforced and blended beautifully.

https://www.torchandfile.com/TF-DBL-...OWN_p_330.html

The headtube will hopefully allow me to ride this to the end of the road and have me more upright in the meantime as well. ;)


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