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-   -   The old and the new, the ying and the yang, the good, bad and the ugly, you decide. (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1196565-old-new-ying-yang-good-bad-ugly-you-decide.html)

Last ride 76 03-29-20 04:28 PM


Originally Posted by merziac (Post 21384472)
Tx Neal, that post may not stay, it was all about the chrome. I will try to work on the clamp and see if I can reinvent it a bit.


May have a Campy 2 bolt sleeved with SS or Ti and polish or just polish one.


The aesthetic was also on purpose.;)


I know you know "Classic", which makes this all the more interesting to see. I'm with Neal, I find the post out of place, though I get the reasoning. Might look at a polished weyless? Or not. Enjoy.:thumb:


I've had a blast building up my own "Ultimate Frankenbikes"*, on existing frames, (one in the works for the Quarantine Challenge) To be involved with the frame design, and for it to be executed by Strawberry, I'm sure made it way more exciting and satisfying. Cool project.


* May need a different term to describe it...:rolleyes: No offense is meant - in any way whatsoever.

Best, Eric

WOW new pics!!! :thumb: rear wishbone, I love it. I hear you on the NR post... That J&L looks pretty sharp.... (just sayin').

merziac 03-29-20 04:42 PM


Originally Posted by Last ride 76 (Post 21390289)
I know you know "Classic", which makes this all the more interesting to see. I'm with Neal, I find the post out of place, though I get the reasoning. Might look at a polished weyless? Or not. Enjoy.:thumb:


I've had a blast building up my own "Ultimate Frankenbikes"*, on existing frames, (one in the works for the Quarantine Challenge) To be involved with the frame design, and for it to be executed by Strawberry, I'm sure made it way more exciting and satisfying. Cool project.


* May need a different term to describe it...:rolleyes: No offense is meant - in any way whatsoever.

Best, Eric

WOW new pics!!! :thumb: rear wishbone, I love it.

Tx!

No worries, I get it and you're right, it's definitely an anomaly and is outclassed from the jump on this but it was the standard for a long time despite how pedestrian and substandard it truly was.

I'll get to work on the 2 bolt Campy. ;)

PS, full disclosure, Andy didn't build this, Dave Levy at TiCycles did after Andy bowed out.

See the addendum at the top.

crank_addict 03-29-20 04:46 PM

Terrific show and tell workshop pics.

Anyways, my last blab and thought for seatpost. Suggest reaching out to Jamie Swan. Acquired this very light steel post from him directly at a show. No clue of maker nor did he say much about it other than agreeing- "its cool".

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a9eefc7710.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...23091320c2.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e9f70ef3cf.jpg

Bianchigirll 03-29-20 04:57 PM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 21386753)
The old sCool Campy brake blocks are a neat touch. What was the rationale?


What have bead head nymphs ever done to you? ;)

Classtime 03-29-20 07:21 PM


Originally Posted by Bianchigirll (Post 21390333)
What have bead head nymphs ever done to you? ;)

It's that they do nothing for me. Some folks fish with bead head nymphs and strike indicators. The same folks likely ride bikes with disk brakes and electronic shifting. I prefer fishing Traditional flys and riding Classic bikes.

julius rensch 03-30-20 12:26 PM

beautifully done merziac
 

Originally Posted by merziac (Post 21384094)
ADDENDUM

So it may be time for pitchforks and such.

Andy did not build this but it was done with his help, input, guidance, special parts, sauce and his full blessing.

Dave Levy of TiCycles built it after Andy changed his mind and bowed out, he originally agreed after Dave helped me convince him.

And I'm certain at this point that Dave put up with far more of my nonsense than Andy ever would have, might very well have been why he bailed.

Anyway, sorry for the slight of hand but there is nothing unStrawberry about this other than the plumber who put the pipes together and the two of them are very good friends so I'm good with that.

2020 Strawberry

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3384531c86.jpg
May not be your cup of tea but I put a lot of time, thought, work and of course $$$$$ into this and am very happy with how it turned out.

My crappy pics, not so much.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...21fae8ca33.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2aa393299e.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2485f674d7.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fdc2da29f7.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...54d66f6a6d.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...28b055cbc1.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...033a4fec10.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9876f84714.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ed877e72d0.jpg

Lots more to come.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------...beautifully done merziac...
looks great, bet it rides as good as it looks...

Julius in Ohio

63rickert 03-30-20 04:15 PM

All my bikes have straight posts. Take the clamp apart, rub beeswax on everysurface, tighten hard, real hard, it won’t move. Maybe check once a year. Not a problem.

Does anyone know what an Ideale number 3 saddle clamp is? Those will solve the loosening problem completely, though you should do the beeswax anyway.

The only good steel post was the early Campy. For a Strawberry it should be a Titan or Reynolds aluminum post, polished. Of course if you polish a basic Kalloy straight post it looks about the same as the old ones.

merziac 03-30-20 06:02 PM

julius rensch

Tx!

I hope you're right and expect so, not there yet, maybe this weekend although rain is in the forecast through it so we'll see, this isn't ever going out in the rain knowingly. ;)

merziac 03-30-20 06:16 PM


Originally Posted by 63rickert (Post 21392176)
All my bikes have straight posts. Take the clamp apart, rub beeswax on everysurface, tighten hard, real hard, it won’t move. Maybe check once a year. Not a problem.

Does anyone know what an Ideale number 3 saddle clamp is? Those will solve the loosening problem completely, though you should do the beeswax anyway.

The only good steel post was the early Campy. For a Strawberry it should be a Titan or Reynolds aluminum post, polished. Of course if you polish a basic Kalloy straight post it looks about the same as the old ones.

Will do, was already going to anti seize the bolt so I can really get after it. Need a proper wrench for it to see if it makes a difference.

The polished Campy 2 bolt will still be the plan B and should probably have been the plan A but this setup on the 58 Paramount works fine for what ever reason. Wonder if the Schwinn post is a bit bigger or different in some way that makes it work better, may have to inspect. ;)

Where's the beeswax at?

Feldman 03-30-20 06:21 PM

Love it--I believe in genre blending!

merziac 03-30-20 06:28 PM


Originally Posted by Feldman (Post 21392388)
Love it--I believe in genre blending!

Wow, tx man, me too. ;)

63rickert 03-31-20 07:12 AM


Originally Posted by merziac (Post 21392382)
Will do, was already going to anti seize the bolt so I can really get after it. Need a proper wrench for it to see if it makes a difference.

The polished Campy 2 bolt will still be the plan B and should probably been the plan A but this setup on the 58 Paramount works fine for what ever reason. Wonder if the Schwinn post is a bit bigger or different in some way that makes it work better, may have to inspect. ;)

Where's the beeswax at?

If you have an OEM post on the 58 Paramount it is most likely a Titan. At least Wastyn was very fond of them. Top section of those was slightly larger. Most saddle clamps use a 15mm nut. With a Campy peanut butter wrench it is a hard push. Might try a regular automotive box end spanner.

merziac 03-31-20 09:09 AM


Originally Posted by 63rickert (Post 21393023)
If you have an OEM post on the 58 Paramount it is most likely a Titan. At least Wastyn was very fond of them. Top section of those was slightly larger. Most saddle clamps use a 15mm nut. With a Campy peanut butter wrench it is a hard push. Might try a regular automotive box end spanner.

Its chrome steel Schwinn branded original, it had an older not original open nose Brooks Pro with Brooks clamp that is rock solid, I put a couple hundred miles on it before I changed it.

A 15mm is sloppy on it, pretty sure its Whitworth or BS, maybe just poorly sized, I have several very good Cresent's that work good to get a good bite that I used on the 58 but they are at their limit on this. I'm a lifelong tech/mechanic and have more tools than sense including dozens of wrench's, none are a proper fit so far.

qcpmsame 03-31-20 09:19 AM

Beautiful bicycle, you made some excellent component and build choices. enjoy the ride, once you get the chance to log a few.

Bill

merziac 03-31-20 09:30 AM


Originally Posted by qcpmsame (Post 21393259)
Beautiful bicycle, you made some excellent component and build choices. enjoy the ride, once you get the chance to log a few.

Bill

Tx Bill,

I put a lot of thought into it and struggled a bit several times, finally got here. ;)

qcpmsame 03-31-20 09:32 AM


Originally Posted by merziac (Post 21393277)
Tx Bill,

I put a lot of thought into it and struggled a bit several times, finally got here. ;)

The amount of thought is evident, take the struggles as part of the price. Its one great build, best one I have seen in a long while!

Bill

merziac 03-31-20 09:40 AM


Originally Posted by qcpmsame (Post 21393282)
The amount of thought is evident, take the struggles as part of the price. Its one great build, best one I have seen in a long while!

Bill

Agreed,Tx again.

Good thing brain cells and own time are free. :rolleyes:

63rickert 03-31-20 04:37 PM


Originally Posted by merziac (Post 21393235)
Its chrome steel Schwinn branded original, it had an older not original open nose Brooks Pro with Brooks clamp that is rock solid, I put a couple hundred miles on it before I changed it.

A 15mm is sloppy on it, pretty sure its Whitworth or BS, maybe just poorly sized, I have several very good Cresent's that work good to get a good bite that I used on the 58 but they are at their limit on this. I'm a lifelong tech/mechanic and have more tools than sense including dozens of wrench's, none are a proper fit so far.

I had not known Schwinn had own seatpost in 1958, that is quite interesting.

Only way I know to find a Whitworth (or maybe itís British Standard) that fits on a saddle clamp is to use an old Raleigh flat wrench. Which is better than nothing but too short and too sharp to do the job well. Good excuse to get a bigger Crescent. Or just get an Ideale 3. One of those would look good on this build. (Eddy Merckx used one, with wingnuts, so he could adjust saddle angle on the fly.)

merziac 03-31-20 06:25 PM


Originally Posted by 63rickert (Post 21394112)
I had not known Schwinn had own seatpost in 1958, that is quite interesting.

Only way I know to find a Whitworth (or maybe itís British Standard) that fits on a saddle clamp is to use an old Raleigh flat wrench. Which is better than nothing but too short and too sharp to do the job well. Good excuse to get a bigger Crescent. Or just get an Ideale 3. One of those would look good on this build. (Eddy Merckx used one, with wingnuts, so he could adjust saddle angle on the fly.)

Yep, SP, binder bolt, stem, HS, brakes. Wish it had the Schwinn hubs but by then they were Campy branded, supposedly the same but Schwinn branded before that,replaceable alloy flanges pressed onto steel barrels.

There are a couple of websites that have Whitworth wrenches and they are on efbay as well.

I have probably 20 "fit all" Cresent wrenches from 4in. to 24in. including a set of "Death Grip" Snap-on Flank Drive. They will snap bolts off before they let go so you have to be careful going there. I don't want to chew up this hardware so I will have to gather my Chi and finesse this carefully. ;)

I assume the beeswax acts like anti-seize on the threads and carbon paste like on the clamping parts somehow?

rhm 03-31-20 06:41 PM

Huh! Neat bike. Definitely not my thing. But the aesthetic speaks for itself. One look at all the photos, I think I understood what you were going for, and I think you nailed it. It's beautiful.

63rickert 03-31-20 06:44 PM


Originally Posted by merziac (Post 21394257)
Yep, SP, binder bolt, stem, HS, brakes. Wish it had the Schwinn hubs but by then they were Campy branded, supposedly the same but Schwinn branded before that,replaceable alloy flanges pressed onto steel barrels.

There are a couple of websites that have Whitworth wrenches and they are on efbay as well.

I have probably 20 "fit all" Cresent wrenches from 4in. to 24in. including a set of "Death Grip" Snap-on Flank Drive. They will snap bolts off before they let go so you have to be careful going there. I don't want to chew up this hardware so I will have to gather my Chi and finesse this carefully. ;)

I assume the beeswax acts like anti-seize on the threads and carbon paste like on the clamping parts somehow?

Old style saddle clamps, even Brooks, are cheap hardware. Lean on the wrench and no way to tell whatís tightening torque and what is just binding and interference. Grease works too but the wrench feel is just not as good and then you have loose grease collecting dirt. I use wax on the serrations as well. Again it improves wrench feel. Also since I started doing that old clamps that had previously slipped become serviceable. You might posit that wax on the serrations changes vibration or harmonics or posit anything you like, seems to work.

merziac 03-31-20 08:45 PM


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 21394278)
Huh! Neat bike. Definitely not my thing. But the aesthetic speaks for itself. One look at all the photos, I think I understood what you were going for, and I think you nailed it. It's beautiful.

Tx!

Obviously built it for me with my own skewed vision and agree that I indeed did nail it. Still have to get it out on the road after some fine tuning and the weather isn't really cooperating.

Although it was ok today and I should have ridden the rain bike to work today at least but no cigar, forecast was crap so I whimped out.

Normally overcoming the threat of rain motivates me to ride anyway but going to the hospital with this S**TSHOW storming straight at us is enough to kill any extra motivation so it's not happening when I probably need it most.

Also not up for struggling with the new setup so It will have to wait for the sun to hopefully motivate me. ;)

merziac 04-01-20 12:02 PM

So a friend called up the other day to say they were going to butcher a cow and wanted to know if we wanted in.

Part of the process is the hanging weight after it is dressed and before it is cut up.

This reminded me to weigh the Strawberry.

Any guesses, frame + fork, complete? ;)


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ffd55219a7.jpg

squirtdad 04-01-20 12:27 PM


Originally Posted by merziac (Post 21395396)
So a friend called up the other day to say they were going to butcher a cow and wanted to know if we wanted in.

Part of the process is the hanging weight after it is dressed and before it is cut up.

This reminded me to weigh the Strawberry.

Any guesses, frame + fork, complete? ;)


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ffd55219a7.jpg

22 lbs

merziac 04-01-20 12:47 PM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 21395445)
22 lbs

Maybe without pedals, boat anchor seat, post, clamp and big tires. ;)

Now that I'm thinking about it I may swap out a few things or do some weight comparisons to see, 22lbs. would be ambitious but we'll see.

Weight was not a concern for the build but did assume it would not be light. I believe the fork, SS and CS tubes are all touring, strong or just plain heavy.

This size of a frame very much falls into the range where many builders go up at least 1 strength level to keep it strong enough.

A couple of the Merz's are pretty heavy for this reason but ride like a dream and can be loaded to the gills.

Dfrost 04-01-20 03:01 PM

Iíll guess 25 lbs as weighed, having my own big frames with leather saddles for data points. Mine (63cm) also have big but light Compass EL tires, and Ti-railed saddles, but not the extra height of this one. And I doubt that your rear fork approach saves weight.

merziac 04-01-20 03:42 PM


Originally Posted by Dfrost (Post 21395691)
Iíll guess 25 lbs as weighed, having my own big frames with leather saddles for data points. Mine (63cm) also have big but light Compass EL tires, and Ti-railed saddles, but not the extra height of this one. And I doubt that your rear fork approach saves weight.

Closer, the seat, post, clamp setup weighs 2.4 and could easily be cut in half or more to shed over 1lb.

Tires could lose 1lb. easy too.

I was surprised by the frame weight, it is not as much as I would have expected, certainly not light either, any guess on it?

Do you know how much any of yours weigh, frame only?

Dfrost 04-01-20 04:19 PM

Van,

My 63.5cm (ctt) Marinoni frame and fork with Chris King 1” headset came in at 3225gm (7.104 lbs). It’s standard diameter SLX tubing, but fully chrome underneath the original paint. You’ve seen it several times.

FWIW, its 700C version wheels with tb14 rims, Shimano tricolor hubs, 12-30 8-spd loose cog cassette, 700x32 Compass tires and heavy-ish Michelin tubes, Campy Chorus skewers weigh 1185gm front, 1820gm rear (650B set with 38mm EL but light tubes, weighed more recently, are about 90gm more). Whew, that’s a bunch of things to keep in mind.

Of course, that’s on my digital scales at the time. But it all weighs what it needs to!

merziac 04-01-20 06:32 PM


Originally Posted by Dfrost (Post 21395844)
Van,

My 63.5cm (ctt) Marinoni frame and fork with Chris King 1” headset came in at 3225gm (7.104 lbs). It’s standard diameter SLX tubing, but fully chrome underneath the original paint. You’ve seen it several times.

FWIW, its 700C version wheels with tb14 rims, Shimano tricolor hubs, 12-30 8-spd loose cog cassette, 700x32 Compass tires and heavy-ish Michelin tubes, Campy Chorus skewers weigh 1185gm front, 1820gm rear (650B set with 38mm EL but light tubes, weighed more recently, are about 90gm more). Whew, that’s a bunch of things to keep in mind.

Of course, that’s on my digital scales at the time. But it all weighs what it needs to!

Yep, seen it I have, a big part of my Marinoni appreciation, love it. Do you know how much the chrome adds and whats the total on it?

So mine is actually 64 ctt with about 10mm drop at the back of the TT with a 1 degree slope.

Do you know exactly how Marinoni measured ctt? Dave Moulton says old english ctt is ctc + 2cm to filter out angle, points and scallops at the top of the seatlug.

And he also talks about how he never would have done it that way if he knew that wasn't really the only way to do it, by then it was too late, he had already built 100's of frames sized the old way. ;)


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...90c0806530.jpg

merziac 04-01-20 06:41 PM


Originally Posted by 63rickert (Post 21394284)
Old style saddle clamps, even Brooks, are cheap hardware. Lean on the wrench and no way to tell whatís tightening torque and what is just binding and interference. Grease works too but the wrench feel is just not as good and then you have loose grease collecting dirt. I use wax on the serrations as well. Again it improves wrench feel. Also since I started doing that old clamps that had previously slipped become serviceable. You might posit that wax on the serrations changes vibration or harmonics or posit anything you like, seems to work.

Certainly a cheap design but the brooks version will take a lot of torque imo, whether it transmits to a snug adjustment is a whole other thing.

I took it apart and put a fair amount of anti-seize on the nuts and threads of the center shaft, found a better fitting 15mm wrench and applied a serious amount of torque to get it far tighter than it has been before, I think it will hold a lot better, the feel was much better tightening it and was smooth with no binding that I felt, we'll see. ;)


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