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-   -   The old and the new, the ying and the yang, the good, bad and the ugly, you decide. (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1196565-old-new-ying-yang-good-bad-ugly-you-decide.html)

merziac 04-01-20 08:54 PM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 21385394)
a bit of helicopter tape can protect that new looking forever paint. I can send you a few inches if you'd like. I use a couple pieces at the head tube and one at the seat stay on my forever bike.

Jeff.

Got it, Tx!

merziac 04-01-20 08:59 PM

:thumb: Quick shout out to all that have chimed in and liked this, I know some of it is a bit odd and that was the point, seems like I wasn't wrong. ;)

Thanks to all, as you can tell, I am going to keep this going for awhile because its never really "done" is it? :foo:

Dfrost 04-01-20 09:16 PM


Originally Posted by merziac (Post 21396059)
Yep, seen it I have, a big part of my Marinoni appreciation, love it. Do you know how much the chrome adds and whats the total on it?

So mine is actually 64 ctt with about 10mm drop at the back of the TT with a 1 degree slope.

Do you know exactly how Marinoni measured ctt? Dave Moulton says old english ctt is ctc + 2cm to filter out angle, points and scallops at the top of the seatlug.

And he also talks about how he never would have done it that way if he knew that wasn't really the only way to do it, by then it was too late, he had already built 100's of frames sized the old way. ;)


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...90c0806530.jpg

Actually my Marinoni is considered 62cm ctc. I generally use the ctt number since that seems useful these days in conversations about bike size. So my ctt number is just that +half a TT diameter. FWIW, the Klein I had for many years was considered 60cm (yeah, it was too small) and they measured to the top of the actual horizontal TT, not their extended ST.

No idea what a full frame worth of (presumably good old school, full toxic, multi-layer) chrome adds. The complete Marinoni, “bare” with Berthoud Ti-rail saddle on a VO long setback post, Shimano SPD pedals, two King bottle cages weighs right at 24 lbs. I’d double check it now on the digital scale built into my Topeak workstand, but it’s not in bare bike configuration now, since I always have that minimalist Tubus rack, lights, computer, etc. installed.

Maybe with all this spare time these days I’ll do another measurement, without as much of that stuff as I can take off reasonably.

merziac 04-04-20 04:32 PM

Guess I should put this here too.

Pretty much as I hoped/expected.

Strawberry ride report, finally.

1mi pre-ride around the block to shakedown, adjust seat and bars, then measly 10.7mi which is about as far as I go on a ride from home when just going for a ride.

Rides like a dream, smooth on smooth, very nice on rough and crappy, good on hard pack/turf/dirt single track (only about a mile and very little at speed).

The fork is very compliant, soaks up a lot of static and nonsense while tracking rock solid, excellent feel.

Sorry, no pics, I was concerned about rain that was forecast and looked likely but still not yet, should have stayed out. https://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

Again, fantastic work from Dave with Andy's parts, piece's, history, tradition and blessing.

And the seat clamp held just fine so far. :rolleyes:

merziac 04-21-20 03:57 PM

Bump for fun. ;)

merziac 05-01-20 02:30 PM

Circling back to ad the weight factor, 24.3lb complete with pedals.

As stated before, the boat anchor seat/clamp/post is 2.4, so lose 1 or more there, change out the heavy tires, lose the pedals and it goes into the 21lb range.

I may swap some around to see if that happens. ;)

RiddleOfSteel 05-01-20 06:24 PM

I was going to guess right around 25 lbs as that is what the Paramount is. May not have a boat anchor seat post, but still has a B17 and triple gearing. It seems around 24-26 lbs is where the bike tells the road what to do/feel while also not being a total tank. Below 20 lb is fun, but the road is for sure telling the bike and the rider what they should be feeling. I think that the leather saddle, more upright seating position, and carbon crank are really helping the frame and tire combo out on ride. The more saddle-to-bum contact (generally due to more upright torso orientation) = the more it feels like I'm sitting in a car's seat or on a couch = the more comfortable I feel and the more comfortable my brain tells me to feel. To the point that I think I need a seatbelt! :lol:

Those tires are 32mm right? They certainly look it. Not too "overly-heavy" for their size. My (used) Soma Supple Vitesse EX "33mm" tires (measure a solid 30mm) are in the 275g range and Continental specs 340g for the 32mm variant, and 295g for the 28mm. 1/4 of a pound I suppose does add up, but at least you get a high TPI count. :)

merziac 05-01-20 07:25 PM


Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel (Post 21449921)
I was going to guess right around 25 lbs as that is what the Paramount is. May not have a boat anchor seat post, but still has a B17 and triple gearing. It seems around 24-26 lbs is where the bike tells the road what to do/feel while also not being a total tank. Below 20 lb is fun, but the road is for sure telling the bike and the rider what they should be feeling. I think that the leather saddle, more upright seating position, and carbon crank are really helping the frame and tire combo out on ride. The more saddle-to-bum contact (generally due to more upright torso orientation) = the more it feels like I'm sitting in a car's seat or on a couch = the more comfortable I feel and the more comfortable my brain tells me to feel. To the point that I think I need a seatbelt! :lol:

Those tires are 32mm right? They certainly look it. Not too "overly-heavy" for their size. My (used) Soma Supple Vitesse EX "33mm" tires (measure a solid 30mm) are in the 275g range and Continental specs 340g for the 32mm variant, and 295g for the 28mm. 1/4 of a pound I suppose does add up, but at least you get a high TPI count. :)

You and Mr. Frost are in the same camp he was at 25 as well. The tires are 32's.

You bring up a great point about the "target" weight, hadn't thought about it that way before and don't really have your perspective having meticulously built so many bikes and wrung them out properly but it clicks now, spot on.

I will definitely lighten this up to test out the theory for myself but am all in on the the rationale so we'll see. ;)

merziac 05-02-20 03:15 AM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 21384230)
Man, that is a lot of steel. Handlebars too?

Circling back, Rivendell designed Nitto noodle 177, wide, flat, 26 clamp matches the VO stem, scored at the co-op for cheap. ;)

merziac 06-02-20 12:15 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 21384304)
Cool! The straight-pin steel seat post and clamp throw me for a bit of a loop, both aesthetically and because those clamps have a tendency to loosen up.

Circling back for a bump on this, been commuting on this quite a bit so probably at least 500 mi. so far, 3 tilt adjustments and no clamp slippage nonsense whatsoever. ;)

gomango 06-02-20 03:37 PM


Originally Posted by merziac (Post 21511367)
Circling back for a bump on this, been commuting on this quite a bit so probably at least 500 mi. so far, 3 tilt adjustments and no clamp slippage nonsense whatsoever. ;)

Sounds like a success story to me.

Cool bike. :)

merziac 06-02-20 05:10 PM


Originally Posted by gomango (Post 21511728)
Sounds like a success story to me.

Cool bike. :)

:thumb: Tx Grady, we're going to go with that for now.

This is one of those little pita things that seems to take on a life of its own, should be simple till its not, couple of poor outcomes and its declared a pos when all that really needs to happen is a redoubling of effort and thought to solve the problem that with proper diligence may never have presented itself.

Simple or otherwise, I love a good challenge. ;)

branko_76 07-24-20 07:32 AM

Beautiful bike, top to bottom !

No stone was left unturned, every detail seems to be carefully worked out.

Charles Wahl 07-24-20 08:11 AM


Originally Posted by Paul J (Post 21384597)
I like everything but the seat post. Appreciate the desire for chrome but I wonder if you could get an aluminum post highly polished? Is the stem the VO Grand Cru?

You can chrome plate a lot of materials, including aluminum. I'm thinking my favorite seatpost type (two-bolt, either Campagnolo, Suntour) fully chromed.

merziac 07-24-20 12:20 PM


Originally Posted by branko_76 (Post 21604538)
Beautiful bike, top to bottom !

No stone was left unturned, every detail seems to be carefully worked out.

:thumb: Tx!

Yep, obsessed over every single piece that went on this. ;)

merziac 07-24-20 12:24 PM


Originally Posted by Charles Wahl (Post 21604593)
You can chrome plate a lot of materials, including aluminum. I'm thinking my favorite seatpost type (two-bolt, either Campagnolo, Suntour) fully chromed.

Yep, got a 2 bolt Campy in the queue, my favorite too.

Any recommendation for who does good chrome on these for less than an arm and a leg?

Do they do the cradles too?

PS, have made several adjustments to the one on there, no slipping at all so far. ;)

Charles Wahl 07-24-20 12:32 PM


Originally Posted by merziac (Post 21605007)
Any recommendation for who does good chrome on these for less than an arm and a leg?
Do they do the cradles too?

My first impulse would be to go where the "bikers" go to get their hogs pimped. They'd need to be informed that this is a combination aluminum/steel affair -- I'm not sure that the process is any different (copper-nickel-chrome), but dwell time and electropotentials might be different for different substrates. I'm no electroplating expert, by any means.

merziac 07-24-20 12:41 PM


Originally Posted by Charles Wahl (Post 21605016)
My first impulse would be to go where the "bikers" go to get their hogs pimped. They'd need to be informed that this is a combination aluminum/steel affair -- I'm not sure that the process is any different (copper-nickel-chrome), but dwell time and electropotentials might be different for different substrates. I'm no electroplating expert, by any means.

Those guys are usually not interested in bicycle parts and they don't seem to be confident in doing aluminum, want a lot of $$$ to try with no guarantee.

I drag race motorcycles so am pretty familiar with them.

We have one local place that gets very mixed reviews, I may see what they say.

jdawginsc 08-06-20 07:59 PM

That gal is truly cool. I love the framery quirks.

xiaoman1 08-07-20 09:20 PM


Originally Posted by merziac (Post 21384094)
ADDENDUM

So it may be time for pitchforks and such.

Andy did not build this but it was done with his help, input, guidance, special parts, sauce and his full blessing.

Dave Levy of TiCycles built it after Andy changed his mind and bowed out, he originally agreed after Dave helped me convince him.

And I'm certain at this point that Dave put up with far more of my nonsense than Andy ever would have, might very well have been why he bailed.

Anyway, sorry for the slight of hand but there is nothing unStrawberry about this other than the plumber who put the pipes together and the two of them are very good friends so I'm good with that.

2020 Strawberry

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3384531c86.jpg
May not be your cup of tea but I put a lot of time, thought, work and of course $$$$$ into this and am very happy with how it turned out.

My crappy pics, not so much.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...21fae8ca33.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2aa393299e.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2485f674d7.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fdc2da29f7.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...54d66f6a6d.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...28b055cbc1.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...033a4fec10.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9876f84714.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ed877e72d0.jpg

Lots more to come.

Found it!
Ben

merziac 08-07-20 11:29 PM


Originally Posted by jdawginsc (Post 21627473)
That gal is truly cool. I love the framery quirks.

Tx, all by design but never would have turned out anywhere near as well without the mastermind that made it happen, Dave did a fantastic job. ;)

merziac 08-12-20 01:32 AM

Paging @hagenandeggs


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