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Old Brooks saddle or is it, opinions please

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Old Brooks saddle or is it, opinions please

Old 04-11-20, 12:14 PM
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reissue59
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Old Brooks saddle or is it, opinions please

Any ideas





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Old 04-11-20, 12:19 PM
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We have a tensioned-leather saddle expert in our midst who might know. Paging rhm !
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Old 04-11-20, 01:25 PM
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Rudi will know but that construction (rails bolted to cantle) does not jibe with Brooks for me. By the nose shape I would guess something Italian or French...maybe, and with no maker's ID and steel rivets, etc. likely a budget model.


EDIT: after looking at every saddle on Velobase I don't see a one that matches this one from England, Italy, France or Japan. The chrome rails that BOLT to cantle plate seems more present as Japanese construction, almost zero Brooks or Ideales use this, then combine the steel rivets and side flap hole pattern...nothing matches.

This is a riddle for @rhm if ever there was one.

Last edited by unworthy1; 04-11-20 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 04-11-20, 01:48 PM
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I'm no Brooks expert either, but it looks a lot like the saddle that came on my '72 PX10. That one was a sort of B17 special, and had that same unique side hole pattern. Gave that bike away like 15 years ago, so I can't verify the hardware is a match. Mine still had its badge and embossing.
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Old 04-11-20, 01:59 PM
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Looks like an Ideal leather saddle.

Very close to Brooks , but not the quality
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Old 04-11-20, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
I'm no Brooks expert either, but it looks a lot like the saddle that came on my '72 PX10. That one was a sort of B17 special, and had that same unique side hole pattern. Gave that bike away like 15 years ago, so I can't verify the hardware is a match. Mine still had its badge and embossing.

if thereís no definitive answer today, I can check the undersides of some saddles that have those generic rivets. Belt, Troxel, Palace, maybe another besides Brooks/Ideale.

the holes look clean compared to the top. They also donít look recently added. Possible they are not original?
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Old 04-11-20, 02:47 PM
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This 'Club' saddle looks like a pretty good match. I know nothing about them.

saddle seat selle club leather brooks vintage rare N 29A

Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
the holes look clean compared to the top. They also donít look recently added. Possible they are not original?
I'm wondering if the holes in that pattern where they get bigger in the middle is some kind of French thing. It does look more decorative than holes all the same size. This feature occurs on more than one 'French' saddle, including various Ideale saddles, and the Brooks B17 I mentioned. Perhaps that Brooks on my PX10 was made specifically as an export model for the French market?
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Old 04-11-20, 02:59 PM
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I am unsure of the actual make, however; some were issued on CCM road bikes in the seventies. This CCM Formula one being a good example...


Many other similar steeds, from CCM came fitted with a bottom of the line Bime saddle, as I recall.
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Old 04-11-20, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemike73 View Post
Looks like an Ideal leather saddle.

Very close to Brooks , but not the quality
I've never found any quality differences between Brooks and Ideal. The Ideals have all been excellent.
And to me and my posterior much more comfortable.
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Old 04-11-20, 03:50 PM
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Looks like an Ideale to me. I do not remember ever seeing any Brooks saddle with holes on the side.
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Old 04-11-20, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jacksbike View Post
Looks like an Ideale to me. I do not remember ever seeing any Brooks saddle with holes on the side.
Really, many came that way and still do, Imperial is just one

BN 5 is another.

https://www.google.com/search?q=broo...w=1280&bih=671


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Old 04-11-20, 05:29 PM
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My pre-aged B17 had them, as well.

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Old 04-11-20, 05:49 PM
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They are fine looking saddles, I think it adds to the C+V vibe quite a bit.
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Old 04-11-20, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jacksbike View Post
Looks like an Ideale to me. I do not remember ever seeing any Brooks saddle with holes on the side.
Back in the 70s there were at least two different Brooks saddles marked as B15. One seemed to be a less expensive version of the B17, maybe the B17N and the other was a more expensive saddle that had those lacing holes. Then, there is the B15 Swallow which is quite different.

Here's one of those B15s with the lacing holes, photo pinched from an ebay ad.
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Old 04-12-20, 02:55 PM
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If the saddle were a Brooks or Ideal I would expect to still see embossing in the leather. I have had both brands from the 60's that still had the embossing clearly readable.
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Old 04-12-20, 05:15 PM
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If we assume this saddle was made by a reputable manufacturer whose goods I'm familiar with, then my best guess is Takahashi. Their saddles were usually branded "Speedic" and often have the model number "170GT." A similar saddle sometimes has the "Ross" brand, in a remarkably good imitation of a classic Italian "Rosa" brand. Both the Speedic and the Ross saddles have a black synthetic leather layer under the leather, on which the letters TSM (Takahashi Saddle Mfg), in an ellipse, are stamped in gold or yellow paint.

The TSM saddles have a frame very similar to OP's, the rail bolted to the cantle, with the bolts outside the rail-- that is, the rail ends are between the bolts. In contrast, Fujita (Belt brand) saddles had the rails bolted to the cantle but the rail went to the outside of the bolts-- the bolts were between the rail ends.

There are some pretty good photos of the Ross version here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/163216158997
And some pretty good photos of the Speedic 170GT here: Speedic saddle

If you look closely at the photos of the hardware on the Speedic 170GT, you'll see that the frame matches quite nicely. Note also the bag loops. But the shackle bolt in the nose is different. The sides of the shackle bolt on the Speedic are ground to a concave shape like older Brooks and Ideale saddles; the shackle bolt on OP's saddle is squashed flat in a press. In other words, much cheaper nose hardware.

We are not dealing with a name brand saddle here. I have photos in my files of one saddle like OP's, with the clumsy line of holes punched through the skirt and no synthetic liner; and no brand name of any kind.

I kinda doubt that this is really a TSM saddle. Perhaps TSM supplied some other company with their frames; or perhaps they made some very cheap generic saddles for some bike boom company? I don't know. Definitely not Brooks or Ideale, though.
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