Backpedaling - Restoring a 1960? Olmo to its Former Glory
05-28-20, 07:19 PM
#101
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Brent,
The chain section will be in the post tomorrow. Smiles, "Professor Peabody".
The chain section will be in the post tomorrow. Smiles, "Professor Peabody".
05-28-20, 07:24 PM
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-----
Sherman shall be waiting with bated breath.
Hope there shall be an opportunity to fire up the WABAC machine.
Have an errand to carry out in the Andorra of MDCCXXXVII.
-----
Sherman shall be waiting with bated breath.
Hope there shall be an opportunity to fire up the WABAC machine.
Have an errand to carry out in the Andorra of MDCCXXXVII.
-----
Last edited by juvela; 05-29-20 at 07:31 PM. Reason: addition
05-29-20, 06:19 PM
#103
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Progress!
Finding components for bikes of this age does not always come easily. Waiting for them to show up at a price I can afford does not always come quickly, but I'm getting very close. Fortunately my deadline for having the bike in good running order is September.
The open "C" shifter levers were on the bike when I received it, but they were attached to a newer style band. ebay provided the required older style band and screws.
Finding an appropriate saddle was perhaps my biggest challenge. Given the vulnerability of leather to the elements I guess this is not surprising. In Peter_B 's Olmo serial number registry I found only 3 listings of original equipment saddles out of the 17 bikes that are closest in age to mine, 2 Italia's and one Brooks.
Failing to find an Italia in any kind of rideable shape I settled on a Brooks B-17 Narrow as a plausible candidate. The saddle which I purchased from a seller in England is in nice shape and appears old. How old? I don't know. I could find no date code and I could not match up the badge with any saddle of a known vintage. Perhaps rhm or cudak888 can enlighten us.
I have a few Regina freewheel bodies and quite a few Regina cogs in my motley assortment of cardboard boxes, so I chose the body that seemed most likely to be of the correct age. I have equipped it with a 13-28 cog selection in the optimistic assumption that I can coax the Gran Sport derailleur to cooperate. Failing that, I have a 13-26 cog set waiting in the wings.
In the same group of Olmo's from Peter B's registry I found 4 bikes with original equipment Balilla brakes, 4 with Weinmann, 1 with Universal, and 4 with MAFAC. I already had the MAFAC calipers and an old friend sent me some MAFAC levers and some red NOS MAFAC half hoods, so MAFAC it is.
You will kindly ignore the Rigida clincher rims and Continental tires that are only on the bike so I can ride it until I can retrieve a set of Fiamme rims that the same old friend has waiting for me in Santa Cruz.
Brent
Finding components for bikes of this age does not always come easily. Waiting for them to show up at a price I can afford does not always come quickly, but I'm getting very close. Fortunately my deadline for having the bike in good running order is September.
The open "C" shifter levers were on the bike when I received it, but they were attached to a newer style band. ebay provided the required older style band and screws.
Finding an appropriate saddle was perhaps my biggest challenge. Given the vulnerability of leather to the elements I guess this is not surprising. In Peter_B 's Olmo serial number registry I found only 3 listings of original equipment saddles out of the 17 bikes that are closest in age to mine, 2 Italia's and one Brooks.
Failing to find an Italia in any kind of rideable shape I settled on a Brooks B-17 Narrow as a plausible candidate. The saddle which I purchased from a seller in England is in nice shape and appears old. How old? I don't know. I could find no date code and I could not match up the badge with any saddle of a known vintage. Perhaps rhm or cudak888 can enlighten us.
I have a few Regina freewheel bodies and quite a few Regina cogs in my motley assortment of cardboard boxes, so I chose the body that seemed most likely to be of the correct age. I have equipped it with a 13-28 cog selection in the optimistic assumption that I can coax the Gran Sport derailleur to cooperate. Failing that, I have a 13-26 cog set waiting in the wings.
In the same group of Olmo's from Peter B's registry I found 4 bikes with original equipment Balilla brakes, 4 with Weinmann, 1 with Universal, and 4 with MAFAC. I already had the MAFAC calipers and an old friend sent me some MAFAC levers and some red NOS MAFAC half hoods, so MAFAC it is.
You will kindly ignore the Rigida clincher rims and Continental tires that are only on the bike so I can ride it until I can retrieve a set of Fiamme rims that the same old friend has waiting for me in Santa Cruz.
Brent
05-29-20, 07:03 PM
#104
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i have gotten a GS to work with a 28, but it is the limit.
Not to be a dick,I'm only trying to illustrate the level at which one can go. Your GS RD does not match your shift levers. A GS without cable adjustment screw is 1960+, what you have. A GS with cable adjustment screw, without open C on the back is 1957-1960. A GS with cable adjustment screw and open C is 1953-1957. You should have the latter GS to match your levers. Just sayin.
Not to be a dick,I'm only trying to illustrate the level at which one can go. Your GS RD does not match your shift levers. A GS without cable adjustment screw is 1960+, what you have. A GS with cable adjustment screw, without open C on the back is 1957-1960. A GS with cable adjustment screw and open C is 1953-1957. You should have the latter GS to match your levers. Just sayin.
05-29-20, 07:10 PM
#105
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Also, having Mafacs is a 'merkin thing. Probably not standard on eyetalin bikes.
05-29-20, 08:29 PM
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i have gotten a GS to work with a 28, but it is the limit.
Not to be a dick,I'm only trying to illustrate the level at which one can go. Your GS RD does not match your shift levers. A GS without cable adjustment screw is 1960+, what you have. A GS with cable adjustment screw, without open C on the back is 1957-1960. A GS with cable adjustment screw and open C is 1953-1957. You should have the latter GS to match your levers. Just sayin.
Not to be a dick,I'm only trying to illustrate the level at which one can go. Your GS RD does not match your shift levers. A GS without cable adjustment screw is 1960+, what you have. A GS with cable adjustment screw, without open C on the back is 1957-1960. A GS with cable adjustment screw and open C is 1953-1957. You should have the latter GS to match your levers. Just sayin.
Regarding the MAFACs I wonder if this was something that was done for the North American market. I also wonder if the reason these bikes can be regularly found in the larger sizes is that they were made for export to the U.S. When I look on ebay Italy I rarely find older bikes this large.
Brent
05-30-20, 02:29 AM
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obrentharris
This is fantastic, your tenacity is inspiring.
My Olmo that is on the registry has Mafac Dural forge like yours and seems to have come with them.
It came with the GS RD with the barrel adjuster and I assume FD and shift levers to match, I knew this is finicky through this time period so I will check my parts against iab's info but have always assumed they were original and correct.
I also believe at this point in the game for many different reasons you have to be willing to take some poetic license, maybe short term, maybe longer if you want to get a bike on the road to stay inspired for the long run.
This is fantastic, your tenacity is inspiring.My Olmo that is on the registry has Mafac Dural forge like yours and seems to have come with them.
It came with the GS RD with the barrel adjuster and I assume FD and shift levers to match, I knew this is finicky through this time period so I will check my parts against iab's info but have always assumed they were original and correct.
I also believe at this point in the game for many different reasons you have to be willing to take some poetic license, maybe short term, maybe longer if you want to get a bike on the road to stay inspired for the long run.
Last edited by merziac; 05-30-20 at 02:34 AM.
05-30-20, 06:21 AM
#108
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No offense taken whatsoever: I'm trying to get an education and you are definitely helping me! I think I follow you on the evolution of the GS. It's the levers I'm confused about. They are '53 to '57? The open C went away on the levers in 58? Or is there something else that indicates these are earlier levers? I've been relying on the Campagnolo timeline on Velo-Retro which states that the open C went away on the levers in 1963.
Regarding the MAFACs I wonder if this was something that was done for the North American market. I also wonder if the reason these bikes can be regularly found in the larger sizes is that they were made for export to the U.S. When I look on ebay Italy I rarely find older bikes this large.
Brent
Regarding the MAFACs I wonder if this was something that was done for the North American market. I also wonder if the reason these bikes can be regularly found in the larger sizes is that they were made for export to the U.S. When I look on ebay Italy I rarely find older bikes this large.
Brent
On the other hand, I have learned to say never say never. And in the end, it really doesn't matter one hoot. I do miss HiCampy's site. He has the coolest stuff. My next grail is a 30s bike (not Bianchi) that has a first gen cambio corsa.
05-30-20, 09:47 AM
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Hello Brent,
next time you fire up the image-maker could you make a couple for me showing the MAFAC lever(s)?
no rush...some time when convenient.
would like to see:
a) closeup from the front of the upper portion of the lever proper
b) closeup from the back of the lever proper
c) profile of the lever proper
thank you
-----
Hello Brent,
next time you fire up the image-maker could you make a couple for me showing the MAFAC lever(s)?
no rush...some time when convenient.
would like to see:
a) closeup from the front of the upper portion of the lever proper
b) closeup from the back of the lever proper
c) profile of the lever proper
thank you
-----
05-30-20, 06:10 PM
#110
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Photos as requested:
I'm hoping that I'm about to get a lesson in the evolution of MAFAC levers.
Brent
I'm hoping that I'm about to get a lesson in the evolution of MAFAC levers.
Brent
05-31-20, 01:32 PM
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Hello Brent,
thank you so much for the photos
very nice job with them
asked for them because wished to make a few rudimentary comments about the brakes
my understaning of them is quite limited compared with that of many forum members so will try to keep it simple and avoid errors
the MAFAC Racer model launched in 1951 and there were a number of changes and iterations in the intervening decades
---
levers -
there were some small subtle changes in the mafac lever for use with drop bar (model RMT) which came in the mid-to-late 1960's. the levers in your photos are of the post change type.
below are two images of an early type pair. in the first image note the apparant slenderness of the lever proper. in the second image note that there are clear periods following each letter in the name to indicate to the reader that it is indeed an acronym. also in the second image note how the width of the lever tapers down relatively quickly to a "waist" and then widens once again as one approaches the bottom.
-----
calipers -
there have been quite a few changes through time in markings, finish and piovt bushings. the red plastic bushings of your set came in approximately around 1969. earlier iterations pivoted and all brass bushings.
the image below illustrates an earlier type pair of calipers. apologies for the crusty appearance of the parts. image chosen because it is large format with good resolution and shows the detail well.
---
adjusting barrels -
the barrels which came with your handsome red hoods are called model GT and launched about 1976. the adjusting barrel current at the time of Peppino's birth was the model T and can be seen in the image below as a separate item -
here is a demi cocotte like yours with the early type adjuster -
---
yokes -
the yoke which came with the brakes up through the early 1970's lacked a notch in the back to accommodate the cable. the trough for the straddle cable was solid. in the mid-1970's the yoke received the notch seen in the picture below.
---
links -
here is an article in the French magazine "Le Cycle" from November 1978 on MAFAC. it includes a visit to the factory and factory interior photos. there is some company history information given. posted at the tonton forum here -
https://forum.tontonvelo.com/posting...&f=33&p=172499
Jan Heine covers the history of bicycle brakes in this issue of Bicycle Quarterly -
https://www.renehersecycles.com/shop.../issues/bq-26/
Sheldon Brown writes on the subject of arrestors from MAFAC -
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/mafac.html
our very own verktyg writes on the stoppers here -
gitaneusa.com :: View topic - Mafac Brakes.... Dural Forge, Racer, Competition
-----
Hello Brent,
thank you so much for the photos
very nice job with them
asked for them because wished to make a few rudimentary comments about the brakes
my understaning of them is quite limited compared with that of many forum members so will try to keep it simple and avoid errors
the MAFAC Racer model launched in 1951 and there were a number of changes and iterations in the intervening decades
---
levers -
there were some small subtle changes in the mafac lever for use with drop bar (model RMT) which came in the mid-to-late 1960's. the levers in your photos are of the post change type.
below are two images of an early type pair. in the first image note the apparant slenderness of the lever proper. in the second image note that there are clear periods following each letter in the name to indicate to the reader that it is indeed an acronym. also in the second image note how the width of the lever tapers down relatively quickly to a "waist" and then widens once again as one approaches the bottom.
-----
calipers -
there have been quite a few changes through time in markings, finish and piovt bushings. the red plastic bushings of your set came in approximately around 1969. earlier iterations pivoted and all brass bushings.
the image below illustrates an earlier type pair of calipers. apologies for the crusty appearance of the parts. image chosen because it is large format with good resolution and shows the detail well.
---
adjusting barrels -
the barrels which came with your handsome red hoods are called model GT and launched about 1976. the adjusting barrel current at the time of Peppino's birth was the model T and can be seen in the image below as a separate item -
here is a demi cocotte like yours with the early type adjuster -
---
yokes -
the yoke which came with the brakes up through the early 1970's lacked a notch in the back to accommodate the cable. the trough for the straddle cable was solid. in the mid-1970's the yoke received the notch seen in the picture below.
---
links -
here is an article in the French magazine "Le Cycle" from November 1978 on MAFAC. it includes a visit to the factory and factory interior photos. there is some company history information given. posted at the tonton forum here -
https://forum.tontonvelo.com/posting...&f=33&p=172499
Jan Heine covers the history of bicycle brakes in this issue of Bicycle Quarterly -
https://www.renehersecycles.com/shop.../issues/bq-26/
Sheldon Brown writes on the subject of arrestors from MAFAC -
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/mafac.html
our very own verktyg writes on the stoppers here -
gitaneusa.com :: View topic - Mafac Brakes.... Dural Forge, Racer, Competition
-----
05-31-20, 09:25 PM
#112
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Thanks for putting me back on the straight and narrow path juvela ! The price of this education of mine is increasing daily.
Actually I have been pleased this evening, scouring ebay US and ebay UK, to find all the correct MAFAC parts at reasonable prices.
Brent
Actually I have been pleased this evening, scouring ebay US and ebay UK, to find all the correct MAFAC parts at reasonable prices.
Brent
07-06-20, 03:05 PM
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Hope that Peppino is moving right along smoothly for you Brent.
pedal note -
ran across this pair of Sheffields at modest cost in case anyone may require a set for a project:
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Pedales-velo...0AAOSwEDJbpmx2
listing has good photos.
-----
Hope that Peppino is moving right along smoothly for you Brent.
pedal note -
ran across this pair of Sheffields at modest cost in case anyone may require a set for a project:
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Pedales-velo...0AAOSwEDJbpmx2
listing has good photos.
-----
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07-06-20, 08:22 PM
#114
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I am hopeful that I will have a nice Peppino update in the not-too-distant future pending the arrival of a couple parts from Francia; a month in transit so far.
Brent
Brent
09-26-20, 07:55 PM
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Peppino is ready to ride!
The return from Nuovo Record to its original (or at least period-correct) components is all but complete. I still lack one "open C" quick release lever and an appropriate water bottle.
I will admit that the fancy new saddle bag is not period correct but I like to carry a camera with me and I found this one more subtle than many of the canvas-and-leather bags.
A few details:
I've had a lot of help with this project. I would like to thank:
@MadHonk for those last few links of Regina chain I needed.
@Duke7777 for the Fiamme rim.
@PatTheSlat for the correct Mafac levers.
@cudak888 for the Mafac yoke.
@thumpism for the TA bottle cage.
@Slightspeed for the Legnano that provided the headset and pedals.
@WolfgangVerne for the Stronglight 57 cranks which I didn't end up using but which are earmarked for another project I have up my sleeve.
@hazetguy for the open C quick release skewer.
@RiddleOfSteel and @Wildwood for their help in finding a Seattle bike shop to ship the bike to me.
And all of you for your encouragement, advice, and education!
Ride report forthcoming.
Brent
The return from Nuovo Record to its original (or at least period-correct) components is all but complete. I still lack one "open C" quick release lever and an appropriate water bottle.
I will admit that the fancy new saddle bag is not period correct but I like to carry a camera with me and I found this one more subtle than many of the canvas-and-leather bags.
A few details:
I've had a lot of help with this project. I would like to thank:
@MadHonk for those last few links of Regina chain I needed.
@Duke7777 for the Fiamme rim.
@PatTheSlat for the correct Mafac levers.
@cudak888 for the Mafac yoke.
@thumpism for the TA bottle cage.
@Slightspeed for the Legnano that provided the headset and pedals.
@WolfgangVerne for the Stronglight 57 cranks which I didn't end up using but which are earmarked for another project I have up my sleeve.
@hazetguy for the open C quick release skewer.
@RiddleOfSteel and @Wildwood for their help in finding a Seattle bike shop to ship the bike to me.
And all of you for your encouragement, advice, and education!
Ride report forthcoming.
Brent
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09-26-20, 09:55 PM
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Glad to be part of such a noble venture.
09-27-20, 12:15 AM
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09-27-20, 01:20 AM
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Standing ovation. Ever so subtle, and yet, the period bits make all the difference in the world.
I knew that Mafac yoke was destined for something eventually...glad to see it finally found a home.
-Kurt
I knew that Mafac yoke was destined for something eventually...glad to see it finally found a home.
-Kurt
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10-07-20, 09:34 PM
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I have about 40 miles on "Peppino" now and am enjoying this bike a lot. The top tube is quite short at 56cm and Brooks saddles are not very amenable to much saddle setback, but with some heavy persuasion after yesterday's ride I have managed to move the saddle to a point where I think it will work for me. Otherwise I'll be looking for a longer stem.
The rear derailleur shifted very reluctantly for the first ten miles or so but things got much better. Perhaps this is due to the 3 new Regina cogs that I installed on the freewheel. Perhaps they had some small burrs that needed to be worn off. Or perhaps I just learned the correct touch. In any case It shifts very nicely now.
I hadn't used a Gran Sport front derailleur since 1968 and my memories were not good, but this one shifts beautifully. One factor is probably the thorough disassembly, cleaning, and lubrication that I gave it. Another factor is probably the minimal 5 tooth difference between the two chainrings, 47 and 52.
My 68 year old legs were not thrilled to be pushing a 47-28 up a 14% grade but they eventually accepted their fate; more standing out of the saddle than I've done in a long time!
Brent
The rear derailleur shifted very reluctantly for the first ten miles or so but things got much better. Perhaps this is due to the 3 new Regina cogs that I installed on the freewheel. Perhaps they had some small burrs that needed to be worn off. Or perhaps I just learned the correct touch. In any case It shifts very nicely now.
I hadn't used a Gran Sport front derailleur since 1968 and my memories were not good, but this one shifts beautifully. One factor is probably the thorough disassembly, cleaning, and lubrication that I gave it. Another factor is probably the minimal 5 tooth difference between the two chainrings, 47 and 52.
My 68 year old legs were not thrilled to be pushing a 47-28 up a 14% grade but they eventually accepted their fate; more standing out of the saddle than I've done in a long time!
Brent
10-08-20, 09:35 AM
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Great job Brent!
Beautiful result.
Beautiful result.
