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I need some help or suggestions with an old Koga bike (Shimano 600 hub) bike

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I need some help or suggestions with an old Koga bike (Shimano 600 hub) bike

Old 04-16-20, 02:41 PM
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aidann
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I need some help or suggestions with an old Koga bike (Shimano 600 hub) bike

Hi everyone, i hope u all are good!


First off i want o say that English isn't my first language so if there are any grammar faults i am truly sorry.


I found an old bike about 2 weeks ago in our backyard shed and i want to restore it, it was a bike from Adrie Vander Poel ( famous rider here in Belgium )

when we dismounted the bike 10 years + ago a few key part's from the hub went missing. now 10 years later i want to get the bike rolling again but i have 0 knowledge about bikes or on what i need to look out for etc etc.


So,

what i need to know or why i came here for help or suggestions is.


Is it easier to buy a complete new hub and use some parts from it to place it onto my old hub, so yes, what hub do i need to buy? I really dont know what to look for the only thing that i know is that it is a Shimano 600 tricollore hub inside a Mavic MA40 wheel with a Shimano hyperglide cassette onto a rusty Koga body.


Anyways thanks for reading and wash your hands.


I will attache as many photo's that i am allowed to post on here to clarify what i mean and what am looking for.


I have made a photo gallery as suggested that is called, the bike ( Koga ) for some picture's of what i have

.


What i could find from the numbers that i found in my bike


wheel Mavic MA40 emr7

inside of the rear wheel is an empty hub that only says Simano 600

inside the front wheel it also says Shimano 600 but on the side of the plastic cover its also says Shimano 600 hb-6400

Last edited by aidann; 04-16-20 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 04-16-20, 03:08 PM
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When you have ten forum posts you can post pics and web links. Then you will be able to be more clear in the parts you need. As of now, you should try to locate the exact same vintage Tricolor hub to use as a donor. Also, ensure the hub uses a cassette (as you say), not a freewheel, and measure the OLD spacing as well (120mm, 126mm, etc.).
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Old 04-16-20, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by aidann View Post
I will attache as many photo's that i am allowed to post on here to clarify what i mean and what am looking for.

The *manage attachments* wouldnt take my photo's from my desktop so i will provide links
You can upload pics to your photo gallery, and then other users can post those pictures in this thread to help with the conversation.
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Old 04-16-20, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
When you have ten forum posts you can post pics and web links. Then you will be able to be more clear in the parts you need. As of now, you should try to locate the exact same vintage Tricolor hub to use as a donor. Also, ensure the hub uses a cassette (as you say), not a freewheel, and measure the OLD spacing as well (120mm, 126mm, etc.).

Hi thanks for replying!

is there a way to find out what the model is of my rear hub? i have been searching for Shimano 600 hubs but it's hard to find the exact same one i am never 100% sure it's the same one
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Old 04-16-20, 03:25 PM
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Oh thanks, i will try that and edit the post!
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Old 04-16-20, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by aidann View Post
is there a way to find out what the model is of my rear hub?
I always start with a velobase search:

VeloBase.com - Component Search

I also do an advanced search on thread title only here at bikeforums.net and filter the search to include only this c&v subforum where all the nice, old guys with lots of experience (and time) post.
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Old 04-16-20, 04:24 PM
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Selective pic assist.

Appears to have been a fairly high-end bike, with the chromed stays and DA crankset.
We would need better pictures of the junctions between frame tubes, and close-ups of frame decals (e.g. tubing brand) to assess further. Perhaps someone knows more from the paint scheme.

The rear derailluer ("Shimano SIS") is a low-end model, and certainly a replacement.




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Old 04-16-20, 04:29 PM
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I think i am coming to an idea of what the model is, i know the front one is a FB-6400 so the rear would be a FH-6400 8 speed as my cassette has 8 layers and when i look to the photo's it actually looks like the same.
The axle handle or whatever it's called thats says close' is black on mine and grey on all the photo's i see but i dont think it matters that much?
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Old 04-16-20, 04:33 PM
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Hi,

Could you explain what 'junctions' are to an not english speaking bike noob?
So i can take a closer picture of it and post it tomorrow ( 00:33 am here atm )
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Old 04-17-20, 12:02 AM
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@aidann welcome and cool bike/frame! The paint and graphics are some of my favorite from Koga Miyata. The late 1980s to early 1990s bikes they had just looked great. And they offered so many nicely equipped models. To me, I can only dream of owning one since I am tall (not many nice 63cm bikes out there any more, though I have found a number) and they were only sold in Europe. We did get regular Miyatas, which were very nice, but...they didn't look like yours (when new).

I have tracked down what bike it is, though! It is a 1992 Full Pro. The paint, chrome, and Shimano Dura-Ace crankset (7400-era, 7402 specifically, which is engraved on the crank arm) all were great clues. That and having a passing familiarity with this era of Koga Miyata thanks to their catalogs being online. Oh, and the Dura-Ace headset is also present, perhaps even the rear brake caliper!

The "junctions" that CO Hoya was talking about are called lugs. As befitting a top level bike, they are quite minimal, and very pretty.

The Shimano 600 (tricolor) hubs are a step below Dura-Ace, but are still very very nice. 6400 was the era of 600 from 1988 into the 1990s. They aren't original to the bike but will serve it well. That bike has had a tough life and shows it, which is too bad. It happens though. Congrats (and thank you) for wanting to get it back on the road. With good parts on it (the rear derailleur needs to go!), it will be flying over the road soon enough.


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Old 04-17-20, 06:34 AM
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Hi RiddleOfSteel,

First of thanks for the great explanation of the bike and some of the history, always funn to know what u actually have .

I have posted some more close ups from the parts that i think u and CO_Hoya where talking about.

Now i am looking for a donnor hub that i could use to get the hub readdy and riding smooth again, when that is fixed i can go on restoring the chrome and getting some of the rust away and make it as pretty as i can again. It is a shame of the paint and some of the original stickers that i will never be able to get clean again but things like the rust, chromen handles, wires etc i schould get it to look a lot better than it is now. Also we still have the orignal saddle that we are planning on restoring with some new bolts and lether.

I have one more question or maybe two .

How hard is it to get a new hub in to the wheel and do i need some special tools as it looks really well secured with 36 spokes? and if it is doable what hub would u suggest?

And do u have a good suggestion for the rear derailleur that i can look into, maybe even a vintage one that will fit the bike nicely?

Thanks again for the explanation and have a great day
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Old 04-17-20, 07:21 AM
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Hi all,

i stumbled upon another maybe dumb question but it makes me doubt about my hub.

As i look for an fh-6400 hub i rarely see an 8 speed variation, is saw one that was for sale but the is asking a $160+ for it, something i am not willing to pay for it as the 7 speed variation is sold by numerous people for around $50.

I also see that the fh-6401 and fh-6402 really look a like and there are a few more on the market for a better price, now i dont have anything els to go from exept my front wheel ( fh-6400 ) to see what my rear hub is or is there?
could i use a 6401 or 6402 as a donor or is there to big of a differenc, i saw they all had a 130mm spacing on the 8 speeds.

Aidan
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Old 04-17-20, 07:30 AM
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First, your English is excellent. Very good photos. Americans have an expression, taken from the world of ownership and maintenance of horses -- "rode hard and put away wet". That would describe this bike. But it's a very nice bike; it's worth putting some work into it.

From Date of Manufacture of Bicycle Components can be used to date a bike: component dating - the PD code on the brake caliper indicates it was made in April 1991, so that would be consistent with RiddleOfSteel 's assessment that it's a 1992 bike.

You actually have the _hub_; that's the part that holds the spokes. And a Shimano 600 tricolor is, as mentioned above, very good quality. Notice how the spoke holes have a tapered "chamfering"? That's to accomodate the bend of the spole coming out of the hole, and generally is only seen on better hubs like this. You're missing some axle parts. Do you see the bearing cone and washers/spacers and lock nut on the right end of the axle? You need the same for the left side, and probably some additional spacers. These parts are pretty "generic", not specific to any model of hub.

That splined part is the freehub body. Rather than a traditional freewheel, your rear wheel uses a Shimano freehub/cassette system. You have the freehub body and cassette (set of sprockets), but there should also be a hollow "bolt" that fits inside the freehub body, and has male threads. It passes through the freehub body and threads into the female threads on the hub (see your pic), to attach the freehub body to the hub. Look around again among the loose parts, as it may be there.

You should also get new bearing balls. Rather than guess about how many you have left and how many are missing, just start with a fresh set. Once you have the necessary parts, you can put them together, with fresh grease for the bearings, and have a complete wheel.

Do you folks have anything equivalent to the bicycle co-ops we have in the USA? And would it be open for business at this time? Such a place would be a good resource for obtaining the replacement axle parts. Someone here on the forums might know what size of bearing balls you need, and how many for each side. You may have to experiment with the spacers needed for the left side, to get a proper fit to the rear triangle of the frame. A bike co-op would also be a good place to source a better quality rear derailleur, one more in keeping with the quality of the bike. You might also check eBay, or whatever you have that's comparable to craigslist here in the US

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Old 04-17-20, 07:58 AM
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Additional selective pic assist:
















I'm not sure what I'm seeing in the last picture:


Is that a broken cable guide on the head tube?

---------------

This appears to have been a very nice bike at one time, and probably could be brought back mechanically if not cosmetically. But it looks to need a complete overhaul (cabling, brake pads, new grease, bearings, etc).

If you can find a bike co-op or local bike shop, it may be worth getting some help on this one, as it's may be too nice a bike to be the one upon which you learn bicycle repair. Just my opinion, of course.

At minimum, consider reading Sheldon Brown's articles (link). I was going to send you to randyjawa 's My Ten Speeds website, but it appears to be down right now (link).

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Old 04-17-20, 08:54 AM
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Hi,
i think it was just a photo of the Durance logo not sure why but i took as many photo's that could maybe indicate something.

I will definitely have a look to the guide and see what it teaches me .

And indeed it need a lot of work but i think that most of the 'essentials' still are in some what of a decent state just to make it ride again ( exept for the damn hub ).

i do have new cables, cable tubes, break pads, (i think they would fit) handle bar tape and some grease ready to instal but i want to make sure the bike rides first.

For now i am still stuck at what parts or what donor hub i schould get and where to find it as i dont want to buy anything wrong (shipping prices on all the site's are over the top)
Stil doubting if it is a 6400,6401 or 6402.

Thanks for posting the photo's into the the thread though, really helps a lot !
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Old 04-17-20, 11:11 AM
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For the hub, you only need a few axle parts, as mentioned above. Those are fairly "generic", as long as the threads are the same and the cone is for the same bearing size, you'll be fine.

The bike wouldn't have had a front brake cable guide. Does your country require front reflectors on bikes sold new? I'm thnking that broken piece on the headset stack may be a reflector mount.

As for mytenspeeds.com, I recall randyjawa mentioning that he had an offer to sell the site, or perhaps just the domain, so it may be in transition.
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Old 04-17-20, 11:43 AM
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Well i find it really hard to find those parts i am not really sure what to look for or what the specific terms are, a hub would be the easiest thing for me.

i found some selling a Shimano fh 6400 hub for a really good price but i am not sure if i could strip it and use the parts, this is his description:

Selling these 32h 7s uniglide hubset. Still in excellent condition and run perfectly smooth. I have a Shimano 7s uniglide cassette for them somewhere that I can include. The freebody can easily be swapped for an 8 speed if need be.

so i have a 8 speed body and a 36h 8 speed hub does this matter and will i be able to use the parts from his hub?

I dont think we need to have reflectors, i will give it a close look to find out what that broken thing is.
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Old 04-17-20, 02:23 PM
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Yes, the axle from that hub will work. The only other part you'll need is the threaded hollow part I mentioned above, for attaching the freehub body to the main hub, unless you found the existing one. To remove / install that part, you put a big (I can't remember right now, it's either 8mm or 10mm) allen wrench into it, after removing the axle. You'll feel it engage the flats inside. It's "standard" thread, that is, anti-clockwise to loosen/remove, clockwise to install/tighten. Best practice would be to use new bearing balls, but if individual parts are hard to source, you can use the balls from the hub you'll be purchasing.

Good idea to buy the whole hub. You'll have a spare now, in case you need it, and it probably isn't going to cost much more than the individual parts.
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Old 04-17-20, 03:11 PM
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oh cool!

I am thinking because he has a uniglide hub he wont have the hollow fixing bolt? i have searched my whole basement and backyard shed over 3 times now and with no luck.

the hub that i can buy is 30 euro's without shipping so if that is not to expensive i got the partsn if he doesnt have the fixing bould i saw a place where i could buy one for 10euro wich i find a lot but it is better than buying everything seperate and buying all of the shipping fees.

Is there actually a difference in the hub it self from a 32h or a 36h?
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Old 04-17-20, 06:18 PM
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Remember, the _hub_ is the part that the spokes go through. And yes, that is different between 32 and 36 spokes. But you won't be using that part, since your hub is already laced to the spokes and rim. You'll only be using the _axle_ -- the threaded hollow rod that has the bearing cones and locknuts, and the bearings and the fixing bolt.

That's a good question about Uniglide. That's an older generation technology than your hyperglide. There is some information on interchangeability on Sheldon Brown's web site, but it doesn't provide any detail about interchangeability of the fixing bolt. I found a few old Uniglide freehub bodies on eBay, with photos depicting the fixing bolt, and it DOES look different; coarser threads, in particular. But in that case, buy the E10 fixing bolt if the one that comes with the hub doesn't fit.
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Old 04-17-20, 06:46 PM
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Thanks for the information and i actually meant like the inside of the hub, so the thickness of the axle it self, or the space that it needs to pass trough, if it isn't going to be thinner or thicker, not that i am gonna use the hub but if his axle is thinner or thicker than the bolt's spacers etc are not going to fit on my axle?
could just be that i am worying to much though and asking dumb questions

i found the specific number of the bold Fixing Bolt 3590400 but as i thought al kinda expensive ( around the 10 euro and 22 euro for shipping )

if i search for E10 fixing bolt then i am not seeing anything close to it.
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Old 04-17-20, 06:54 PM
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Oh, "E10" is my American keyboard shorthand for "10 euro", sorry for the misunderstanding.
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Old 04-17-20, 06:57 PM
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haha okey makes a bit more sence
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Old 04-18-20, 04:14 PM
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As i am still wondering if my hub is a fh-6400, 6401 or 6402 i did some more research. On the Shimano website and it doesn't say anything about the fh-6400 having a 8 speed, only the 6402 has a 8 speed according to the site and manuals https://si.shimano.com/#/en/search/S...hive&type=ROAD ( second page ).

As i said before my front hub is a FH-6400 and that i can only see on the because it still hass the dust cover ( the only place numbers are displayed ) unfortunately my rear one doesn't have the dust cover anymore so i dont have anything to go from only that it had a 8speed hyperglide cassette attached to the hub. Now when inspecting the axle closer it has something on it but if i google that it doesnt show me anything related to an axle. This is what is ingraved ( Ci - Mo ) or that is what i think it says.


Maybe someone can correct me on what is on the axle and i could possibly find the exact hub that way, if that is a thing?

have a good night all!
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Old 04-18-20, 06:03 PM
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That's Cr-Mo, shorthand for chrome-moly.
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