Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

1963 Schwinn Paramount

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

1963 Schwinn Paramount

Old 04-25-20, 01:55 PM
  #1  
Narhay
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Narhay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,232
Mentioned: 95 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 751 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 190 Times in 127 Posts
1963 Schwinn Paramount

This is a bit of a hodgepodge of parts and it sort of looks like a repaint but I am not a schwinn expert. What do you think of this 1963 Schwinn Paramount P12 ? What would have been oem components?













Narhay is offline  
Likes For Narhay:
Old 04-25-20, 02:02 PM
  #2  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 25,220

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 992 Post(s)
Liked 830 Times in 533 Posts
Campagnolo no-Record high flange hubs, early Record headset (smooth with one line across each cup's perimeter), early Weinmann 999's with the cast-in lettering, a Stronglight Competition No. 55 cottered steel crankset, and a Campagnolo Gran Sport steel RD.

The Paramount lettering on the right side seems a bit off in positioning, but the one thing that stands out is that there isn't any pinstriping around the lugs. Even P12s with painted lugs usually had pinstriping along with the box lining.

-Kurt
__________________







cudak888 is offline  
Old 04-25-20, 02:09 PM
  #3  
Narhay
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Narhay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,232
Mentioned: 95 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 751 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 190 Times in 127 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Campagnolo no-Record high flange hubs, early Record headset (smooth with one line across each cup's perimeter), early Weinmann 999's with the cast-in lettering, a Stronglight Competition No. 55 cottered steel crankset, and a Campagnolo Gran Sport steel RD.

The Paramount lettering on the right side seems a bit off in positioning, but the one thing that stands out is that there isn't any pinstriping around the lugs. Even P12s with painted lugs usually had pinstriping along with the box lining.

-Kurt
Yes I thought the lugs were either lined or chrome but not plain like this.

There should also be words under the logo on the seat tube decal. Arnold schwinn & company.
Narhay is offline  
Old 04-25-20, 02:11 PM
  #4  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 25,220

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 992 Post(s)
Liked 830 Times in 533 Posts
Originally Posted by Narhay View Post
Yes I thought the lugs were either lined or chrome but not plain like this.
I'm pretty sure you could order a P12 with chrome fork ends and painted lugs like this, but you'd still get lug lining, even if painted. Case in point:




-Kurt
__________________







cudak888 is offline  
Old 04-25-20, 02:33 PM
  #5  
juvela
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 9,504
Mentioned: 265 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2118 Post(s)
Liked 335 Times in 296 Posts
-----

also Titan stem/bar set, Campag pillar, Brooks Pro saddle, Weinmann wood-filled tubular rims, NERVEX transfer on seat tube


-----
juvela is offline  
Likes For juvela:
Old 04-25-20, 03:14 PM
  #6  
xiaoman1 
Slightly Mental
 
xiaoman1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Weird Coast City of the Angels
Posts: 2,986

Bikes: A few too many

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 614 Post(s)
Liked 353 Times in 244 Posts
I think there was room for some variation on the Paramounts...Typical yes but this means sometimes, I ordered my P-15 and it came without the chrome tips on the fork ends not typical according to catalog and the shop noticed it when it came in and offered a discount if I wanted to keep t as is.
I ask that they send the fork back for the plating even though it cost me a delay of several weeks.
BTW, IMO The Disneyland decal is very nice!
Best, Ben
xiaoman1 is offline  
Old 04-25-20, 04:09 PM
  #7  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 6,020

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 128 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1801 Post(s)
Liked 696 Times in 510 Posts
Narhay

Awesome find, welcome to the club if this is your first Paramount or first this vintage, fantastic score.

This is a great example despite the apparent/possible rework/inconsistencies.

I think these are a lottery find no matter what at this stage of the game.

Great color as well, not sure if it was around when this came out.

Well done.
merziac is offline  
Old 04-25-20, 04:28 PM
  #8  
PilotFishBob 
My brain hurts!
 
PilotFishBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 967

Bikes: A few. Define "few".

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 345 Post(s)
Liked 144 Times in 88 Posts
I have a '63 P13 Deluxe, S/N is P39, just a few removed from your specimen. The almost nonexistent remnants of downtube logo were the post-Disney font, that was dropped later in 1963 at some point. My research showed original brakes were early gen Vainqueur 999 caliper's noted above with the button QR levers, Maes bar and Record drivetrain with 151 bcd cranks in addition. Drivetrain may have also come later in the year replacing the GS stuff, and the bike came with it. Right or wrong (and within my budget constraints) I managed what I think is a reasonable replication. Couldn't find the correct seat tube decal, I made one by spicing a later Paramount for the rings and bars, and a period Continental for the AS logo. From more than 2 feet away the joins are invisible - good enough. Yours looks good, I like the box lining..

Last edited by PilotFishBob; 04-25-20 at 04:40 PM.
PilotFishBob is offline  
Likes For PilotFishBob:
Old 04-25-20, 04:59 PM
  #9  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 25,220

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 992 Post(s)
Liked 830 Times in 533 Posts
Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

also Titan stem/bar set, Campag pillar, Brooks Pro saddle, Weinmann wood-filled tubular rims, NERVEX transfer on seat tube

-----
I think the Campagnolo post was an option, but I'm pretty sure the base post was a straight pipe design with a separate clamp.

-Kurt
__________________







cudak888 is offline  
Old 04-25-20, 05:20 PM
  #10  
Narhay
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Narhay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,232
Mentioned: 95 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 751 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 190 Times in 127 Posts
Thanks for all the info but this is not mine as of yet. I spoke with the seller earlier in the day and might put an offer in later but the whole pandemic has tempered my desire to go out. We shall see what happens. I would likely build up as correct as possible with some minor convenience changes.
Narhay is offline  
Old 04-25-20, 05:44 PM
  #11  
Salamandrine 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,999

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2176 Post(s)
Liked 392 Times in 297 Posts
Weren't Paramounts pretty much completely customizable? So that paint could be original, regardless of the uncommon color and lack of lug lining. I'm wondering though if it could be a factory repaint from say the bike boom era? That might explain some of the more 70's-ish features. Cool looking frame regardless, just as it is.
Salamandrine is offline  
Old 04-25-20, 06:45 PM
  #12  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 6,020

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 128 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1801 Post(s)
Liked 696 Times in 510 Posts
Originally Posted by Narhay View Post
Thanks for all the info but this is not mine as of yet. I spoke with the seller earlier in the day and might put an offer in later but the whole pandemic has tempered my desire to go out. We shall see what happens. I would likely build up as correct as possible with some minor convenience changes.
This would be for me one that would push the limits of the crap we're dealing with and I work at a hospital, am fanatical about it and none of this is lost on me.

I would be escalating the applicable safeguards and making a run for it post haste, you don't get many chances at these.
merziac is offline  
Old 04-25-20, 09:44 PM
  #13  
Hudson308 
Mr. Anachronism
 
Hudson308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: City of Lakes
Posts: 1,948

Bikes: fillet-brazed Chicago Schwinns, and some other stuff

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 482 Post(s)
Liked 159 Times in 110 Posts
Originally Posted by Narhay View Post
What do you think of this 1963 Schwinn Paramount P12 ?
I think it's cool.
__________________
"If we don't change direction soon, we'll end up where we're going." -Irwin Corey
Hudson308 is offline  
Old 04-26-20, 11:59 AM
  #14  
Narhay
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Narhay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,232
Mentioned: 95 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 751 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 190 Times in 127 Posts
Well. I caved.







There is some paint damage on the bottom of top tube not apparent in the sellers photos but I can likely touch it up. That reynolds decal hasnt disintegrated so I feel like it is a replacement. If this is the original paint I will look for flamboyant red but it looks too good and lustrous to be original.

Last edited by Narhay; 04-26-20 at 12:05 PM.
Narhay is offline  
Old 04-26-20, 01:19 PM
  #15  
xiaoman1 
Slightly Mental
 
xiaoman1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Weird Coast City of the Angels
Posts: 2,986

Bikes: A few too many

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 614 Post(s)
Liked 353 Times in 244 Posts
Sweet... nicely done!
Ben
xiaoman1 is offline  
Old 04-26-20, 02:08 PM
  #16  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 6,020

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 128 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1801 Post(s)
Liked 696 Times in 510 Posts
Narhay

Excellent!
merziac is offline  
Old 04-26-20, 02:19 PM
  #17  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 14,540
Mentioned: 91 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1384 Post(s)
Liked 358 Times in 282 Posts
Schwinn paint was good, but they used a red oxide primer as the first coat. On any color, intermediate color, silver for any of the "flamboyants" and an off white on the opaques.

The Reynolds graphic looks replacement, back then they were a dry fix transfer or a decal.
The downtube graphics look good but a bit too "bold"
The pinstriping is the right theme, but a bit over the top, no lug lining, which is possible, but unlikely.
no demarcation at the termination of the chrome.

But, leave it. Could be much worse.

"Boy I like my Schwinn bike, Schwinn is the finest bike" the lyrics to the jingle heard near 60 years ago on the Capt'n Kangaroo show.
Where the Cap' presented the bright shiny Schwinn bikes on set...(wonder how they knocked back the chrome, under those studio lights of the day, there would have been bad "flares" to the camera.)
It was how I learned of the New Sting-Ray!
repechage is offline  
Likes For repechage:
Old 04-26-20, 02:23 PM
  #18  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 6,020

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 128 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1801 Post(s)
Liked 696 Times in 510 Posts
Early mainstream marketing at its finest, wind up the kids and the parents will have no choice but to cave.
merziac is offline  
Old 04-26-20, 02:41 PM
  #19  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 17,082

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4533 Post(s)
Liked 854 Times in 598 Posts
This is a cool bike. I bought two bikes just before things went crazy with the pandemic: one is a '68 Schwinn paramount, the other a '71 Whitcomb. Both were complete bikes.

Your Schwinn Paramount looks great.
bikemig is online now  
Old 04-26-20, 02:41 PM
  #20  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 14,540
Mentioned: 91 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1384 Post(s)
Liked 358 Times in 282 Posts
Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Early mainstream marketing at its finest, wind up the kids and the parents will have no choice but to cave.
A few years later when I was able to help select my Christmas present, it was Schwinn. 3-speed stick shift Sting-Ray.... It was the sensation of the apartment building. Every Adult wanted to ride it, the apartment manager got to.
I brushed aside the Raleigh, The American Eagle (5 speed even) I was prepped. does this bike have double walled rims? The three speed gears are protected inside...
Logic prevailed. The final comment, YOU have quality bikes... They had Carltons, with full Reynolds tubing even... The war was won.
repechage is offline  
Old 04-26-20, 02:47 PM
  #21  
Narhay
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Narhay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,232
Mentioned: 95 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 751 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 190 Times in 127 Posts
I will line the lugs and then start on the slow journey of amassing mostly correct parts for it. The easy way would be to go for a nuovo record group but I already have two full NR bikes.

The other option is a 1x with a tourney or acera groupset on 26" wheels and some clamp on cantilever posts.
Narhay is offline  
Old 04-26-20, 02:55 PM
  #22  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 14,540
Mentioned: 91 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1384 Post(s)
Liked 358 Times in 282 Posts
Originally Posted by Narhay View Post
I will line the lugs and then start on the slow journey of amassing mostly correct parts for it. The easy way would be to go for a nuovo record group but I already have two full NR bikes.

The other option is a 1x with a tourney or acera groupset on 26" wheels and some clamp on cantilever posts.
the original lug lining was a bit of a trick, on the tubes away from the actual lug shoreline. Impressive.
repechage is offline  
Likes For repechage:
Old 04-26-20, 03:38 PM
  #23  
xiaoman1 
Slightly Mental
 
xiaoman1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Weird Coast City of the Angels
Posts: 2,986

Bikes: A few too many

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 614 Post(s)
Liked 353 Times in 244 Posts
Originally Posted by repechage View Post
the original lug lining was a bit of a trick, on the tubes away from the actual lug shoreline. Impressive.
Yes, still wondering how it was done....some suggested a ruling pen but????
Ben
xiaoman1 is offline  
Old 04-26-20, 03:39 PM
  #24  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 6,020

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 128 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1801 Post(s)
Liked 696 Times in 510 Posts
Originally Posted by Narhay View Post
I will line the lugs and then start on the slow journey of amassing mostly correct parts for it. The easy way would be to go for a nuovo record group but I already have two full NR bikes.

The other option is a 1x with a tourney or acera groupset on 26" wheels and some clamp on cantilever posts.
Keep in mind that many of these came with upright bars and stem shifters, this frame already has the lackluster Weinmann's that can be made usable and are reasonably appropriate. It may be a P-13 but could easily have been a P-15 as well, that could be an option.

I would avoid clamping anything on the frame that could compromise its integrity.
merziac is offline  
Old 04-26-20, 03:55 PM
  #25  
Narhay
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Narhay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,232
Mentioned: 95 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 751 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 190 Times in 127 Posts
Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Keep in mind that many of these came with upright bars and stem shifters, this frame already has the lackluster Weinmann's that can be made usable and are reasonably appropriate. It may be a P-13 but could easily have been a P-15 as well, that could be an option.

I would avoid clamping anything on the frame that could compromise its integrity.
Those are mafac racers on the frame and they could be pressed into service. Alternatively I will look for the 999s. I was making a really funny joke about the 1x group and clamp cantilever posts on this frame. Ha ha.

The stronglight cranks appear to be few and far between but I will keep looking. Other than the 55 and 54, are there other period cranks I should look at? I would go with 144bcd record if I go that route.
Narhay is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.